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Does it ever actually thicken up hair or regrow? Also is there AR up regulation or is that bs?
RU 250mg per day is actually working
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thinincrown
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For me finasteride was fading after 8 years. So I added it 8 years ago Im still hanging on to a
Norwood 2
It can lengthen and thicken existing hair for some people, but won’t grow new hair in bald areas
thinincrown
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I’m not an expert in the AR up- regulation discussion, but I have had to gradually increase the dosage over the years. That could have been d/t up regulation or just the progression of male pattern baldness
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How many are we supposed to lose daily? 25? As heartbreaking as baldness is, I never tried to count hairs. Part of it was that I didn't want to know but I had excellent maintenance from polysorbates 60 and 80, then topical min and then finasteride so probably most of my counting hair times were before I noticed that I was balding. I think that we are all much gentler in a hair loss context. Sigh, I used to dry my hair after showers the way that dogs do by shaking out all of the moisture roughly. Others were rough with towels.
One interesting thing here is whether aside from determining the rate of hair loss if we can really tell anything by say not brushing or combing. Except when one is in an extreme shed situation--been there, done that--hair that is destined to fall soon is going to come out one way or the other. So, I tend to think that brushing hair thoroughly in all areas is likely to be very good for blood flow for healthy hair but too heartbreaking in hair loss/shedding scenarios. I use estrogel the way that you use RU but I do it in a combination of applications. All areas of the scalp for diffuse thinners like me, get an application of estrogel and then I specifically use it in the crown, where the incipient bald spot is gone and to the temples where are usually the hardest place to effectuate regrowth. People in whom fringe areas are unaffected in terms of hair quality and high above the ears probably only need it in the crown and temples as you say. Often people with substantial hair worry about wasting the RU/estrogel but here, my daily application of minoxidil foam helps any medication "coated" on my hair to then be absorbed. Apparently estrogel crystalizes as it dries so it is still likely to mix in and not be wasted. Diffuse thinners should consider using topical meds once a day as "hair tonics" like the old Vitalis daily hair treatment. Once estrogel dries, it can easily be combed and there is no perceptible build-up, perhaps due to the alcohol carrier. Your carrier might be different like topical minoxidil which does weigh down the hair when used all over by diffuse thinners.
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Update: My right nipple has become puffy, which is an indication of gyno so I'm stopping the RU treatment for now and starting Ralox and AI to get rid of the puffiness. At least I know that the RU is actually working and isn't bunk.
RU competes with Test in binding to AR receptors and the Test will eventually fail to bind to AR receptors. Test will build up to high levels in the body, which leads to high estrogen levels because Test converts to estrogen. Eventually your natural test production and estrogen levels will go back down but this could take weeks. I believe Anti androgens are similar to SARMS and will eventually shut you down if taken at high doses for a long time.
RU competes with Test in binding to AR receptors and the Test will eventually fail to bind to AR receptors. Test will build up to high levels in the body, which leads to high estrogen levels because Test converts to estrogen. Eventually your natural test production and estrogen levels will go back down but this could take weeks. I believe Anti androgens are similar to SARMS and will eventually shut you down if taken at high doses for a long time.
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Baldness and beard growth are strongly wired to being white. Attempting to alter one's hormonal balance without feminization so far appears to be all but futile where the goal is actual regrowth.
I commend you for telling us this and not just slinking off. Your very attempts inform us more an more about what is possible but even more so perhaps about what is practical and reasonable to expect. Essentially one thing works and that is supplementation of estrogen in amounts virtually always likely to provoke gyno. I have also related how breast growth comes earlier in the process and requires far less estrogen (in fact, small titrated amounts mimic cis-female puberty) than does regrowth of hair from slick bald areas already permanently in telogen or out of cycle which might be the same thing.
Otherwise, merely using AA's might regrow a full head of hair. I am unable to find any instances where AA's did anything except halt hair loss and perhaps increase anagen without being combined with estrogen. Reductase inhibitors reduce hair loss but appear to have little to no effect on anagen cycles. Two HRT meds are commonly used to chemically castrate sexual offenders and they are cyproterone acetate which is a binding type of AA, and also medroxyprogesterone acetate which doesn't inhibit binding but rather dramatically decreases testosterone levels.
Estrogen is unlikely to work as well in a sexual offender context unless combined with such meds in the longer term. Indeed, long-term use of AA's without estrogen is unhealthy and promotes bone loss whereas the body freely accepts T, E2 either but also both. Thus the search might be for some intermediate hormonal state where T is decreased in an amount comparable to the increase in estrogen. Many, if not most receptors appear to be hospitable for either hormone as they differ little in a chemical sense although it is conjectured that different estrogen types might be less breast enhancing but AA's alone might cause serious gyno and testicular shrinkage.
AA's in some ways are even more stereotypically feminizing than is estrogen, especially related to their brutal effects on strength. AA's also are liable to completely take away sexual desire in cis-males which is a feature to me but probably a bug to most XY's. As estrogen levels increase though, sexual desire may "come back" although always attenuated and in a non-fixative process. So both T and E2 promote sexual desire but they create again, the stereotypical effects on sexual behavior all XY's fear. AA's seem the opposite to me in that they correlated with a loss of all sexual desire but then again, I only used spironolactone (and MPA). In terms of effects on genitalia, these effects seem to differ widely. XY's who are in a couple with other XY's might suffer less in terms of potency but others become flaccid and unable to penetrate. In the flaccid state, the penis may resemble one of a pre-pubescent boy and the testicles can shrink dramatically. It all appears to be reversible over time unless SRS and removal of the testicles impede masculinity permanently. I question whether MtF's can actually continue to have potency in the absence of all circulating testosterone. Most MtF's apparently never reach the hormonal profile of an adult cis-female. @bridgeburn certainly must have reached these levels as his feminization was complete and astonishing. He continued to be able to copulate. Others simply never experience erections which can cause extreme shrinkage in length and diameter. Goddess bless.
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what dosage did you start with and what dosage are you using today?
thinincrown
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I started out 8 years ago using 75 mgs 1 x day. When I re-introduced finasteride, I backed it down to 50 mgs per day. Over the last 8 years I've gradually
upped it to 50 mgs 2 x day
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Any pics?
thinincrown
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I do but they all have my face, need to figure out how to block my image from a pic one of these days
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I understand privacy but guys over on the hormonal site share things publicly and privately such as pics so that they can be verified. Maybe you could do that with someone you trust on this thread. I want you to be right but I usually check RU threads and they just end abruptly without the promised pics. There was an off-shoot from the hormonal thread and plenty of folks posting and I assume the guy got gyno and gave up and it just stopped at 7 pages; we are close to 700 pages. I don't think any other threads have ever verified full recovery from horse shoe pattern baldness or even alleged it. We are the only ones who post verifiable pics and our doing so helps everyone.
It made me sad for him because he used to post on the hormonal thread and was sort of a know-it-all about all of these different hormonal meds and using them maybe with estriol but I can't remember exactly.
I know how much hair loss hurts and destroys self-esteem. Anyway, come hang out with us too since RU certainly counts as hormonal in character. I am sincerely writing and researching for a way to regrow without HRT or without estrogen and I don't think that it is possible. I have my bald pictures up and my current pictures but I also have large breasts so this might be something that we will struggle to resolve forever with 14 year old boys being left devastated and heartbroken from many of the posts on Tressless.
Before @bridgeburn started the thread, nobody had ever presented extended pictorial evidence of a complete recovery from male pattern baldness hair loss. Rob alleged it which got me interested in this but he could only produce one before and one after pic and a couple of MtF's told him in the comments section that it was impossible for transgender females to restore hair under HRT and I was like, wtf? I found one other pic floating around where an MtF had a half-way recovery from slick baldness but when I checked she was still posting the same pic and she was in a wig because her recovery was far, far from allowing her to present as female without a wig. I have worn a wig since early this year when I had a shed last summer to complete baldness. Presenting as a male my recovery is impressive anyone would say but presenting as a female, you basically can't have any sort of significant temple corners because chicks don't bald that way, as you know. It is diffuse thinning instead.
Keep fighting the good fight and I will follow your progress with great interest. We are all doing free research for the masses plus providing a lot of incredible "free" content for the site.
Oh and I know crown thinning can be improved with current non-HRT meds so I am talking about something far more substantial and before my shed, I wasn't exactly bald.
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After being on 60mg of Ralox and 12.5mg Aromasin ED for a few days, my gyno has decreased. Will continue to take the ralox for another week at 60mg and reduce down to 30mg the following week. Going to stop the AI today and see if the gyno can be combated with just the ralox. I know Ralox and AI's aren't good for hair but I'd rather lose hair than have gyno. Will continue with the RU treatment soon. Just wanted to warn anyone that is going to use high dose RU to have Ralox and/or an AI on hand due to potential gyno.
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Can you not take them at the same time?
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You can take Ralox and RU at the same time and that's what I'm going to do when I try it again. I'll probably take it for 2 weeks and if I don't experience any gyno symptoms I'll slowly taper off the Ralox.
Where did you get your ralox? It seems out of stock everywhere, i can only find tamox which i would rather avoid, bad for hair.
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Expresspct, aipctshop, or inhouse
Cheers
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Update. I experienced gyno/puffy nipples from 250mg RU but it was quickly reversed within 24-72 hours with Ralox and AI. Then I purchased Darolutamide and tried a dose of 4mg per day for 3-4 days and experienced very bad gyno in my right nipple, nothing on my left for some reason. This took a while to reverse even with 120mg Ralox ED and enough letro to crush my estrogen to the point of my joints and back aching badly. My hair became thin and I lost a lot of progress due to the AI. However, during the 4 days I took Daro, my hair loss decreased significantly. The problem with daro is it has such a long half life which defeats the entire purpose of taking it because you will have to take a shitload of AI and ralox to combat the gyno. The mistake I made was taking too much daro to start out. If I could go back, I would take 0.5mg EOD to start and not 4mg which is a pretty high dose.
After I cleared up the gyno I experienced from daro, I experimented with 500mg of RU and within around 5 days, I experienced heart palpitations. It felt like my heart was struggling to beat and everytime I would take a deep breath and exhale, I felt a sharp pain in my chest. After 2 days, all the sysmptoms went away which leads me to believe that it's most likely from the RU. I do not recommend taking RU at such a high dose due to cardiovascular problems.
What I'm going to try next is Oh-Flutamide 100mg ED and if I see good results, I will add in 50mg of RU and possibly decrease the Oh-Flut. The reason for combining 2 anti androgens is because RU has a shorter half life (1 hour) compared to Oh-Flut (5-7 hours) and I will get results from both drugs and hopefully not experience any gyno or chest problems. Combing RU and 0.5mg daro is also another option in the future. Will keep you guys posted.
After I cleared up the gyno I experienced from daro, I experimented with 500mg of RU and within around 5 days, I experienced heart palpitations. It felt like my heart was struggling to beat and everytime I would take a deep breath and exhale, I felt a sharp pain in my chest. After 2 days, all the sysmptoms went away which leads me to believe that it's most likely from the RU. I do not recommend taking RU at such a high dose due to cardiovascular problems.
What I'm going to try next is Oh-Flutamide 100mg ED and if I see good results, I will add in 50mg of RU and possibly decrease the Oh-Flut. The reason for combining 2 anti androgens is because RU has a shorter half life (1 hour) compared to Oh-Flut (5-7 hours) and I will get results from both drugs and hopefully not experience any gyno or chest problems. Combing RU and 0.5mg daro is also another option in the future. Will keep you guys posted.
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If you’re down for more experimentation, if you’re forced to use an AI again, maybe also use high dose topical estrogen? I’m curious to see if you can avoid the hair loss effect from the AI by focusing estrogen on the follicles plus also avoid systemic estrogen sides, Maybe even get some growth.