gourmetstylewellness.com: one final question about Revivogen (and spironolactone)

[Mr T.]

gourmetstylewellness.com,

I posted this in another thread but I don't think you saw it. I want to mimic your regimen, having decided to go with Revivogen over Crinagen after talking to you and Bryan Shelton over at HLH.

I'm wondering how you use Revivogen and spironolactone together. Do you use one in the morning and one at night? Do you use Revivogen and then spironolactone an hour later, or spironolactone first then Revivogen an hour later? The Revivogen people say that you can't use their product with other topicals. Does this mean that I have to use them at least several hours apart (one in the morning, and one at night)???

Thanks mate. Cheers.

Jeremy

 

[bombscience]

Why have you decided to go with Revivogen over Crinagen??? Aren't they the *exact* same formulas?

 

[Mr T.]

Why have you decided to go with Revivogen over Crinagen??? Aren't they the *exact* same formulas?

After talking to gourmetstylewellness.com and Bryan Shelton, I think I'd rather have the peace of mind of using Revivogen. The makers of Crinagen copied the Revivogen formula. They might not even be using the right ingredients in the right amount. So in that sense, they might not be the "exact" same formula, you follow mate?

The extra money is worth the peace of mind, for me at least.

Cheers.

Jeremy

 

[Mr T.]

bump

You around gourmetstylewellness.com???

 

[HairFreak]

What I do is first I put Crinagen, and then an hour (or less) later I put minoxidil. THis is what Dr. Razack (creator of Crinagen ) recommends and it does makes sense. I dont put anything on for at least 4 hours after I add minoxidil.
I don't use spironolactone, sorry...

 

[Lizzad]

Are there ANY scientific studies that show either of these 2 crocs, by which i refer to revivogen & crinagen, work??? :roll:

 

[Mr T.]

Are there ANY scientific studies that show either of these 2 crocs, by which i refer to revivogen & crinagen, work??? :roll:

How can you call Revivogen and Crinagen "crocs" when you don't even know whether or not there is any research that shows whether or not these things work???

Anyhow, to answer your question, yes there ARE studies, both in vivo AND in vitro. http://www.revivogen.com/research.html

Fatty acids are excellent natural inhibitors of 5ar. Azelaic acid, zinc, and B6 have also been shown to inhibit 5ar, but I think that they've only been shown to do so in test tubes. Regardless, fatty acids DO work both in vivo and in vitro.

I've gone through a lot of the older threads on this forum and on other sites, and I've noticed that a lot of people who use either of these 2 products give up after only a few months. If the so-called Big Three often take more than a year to work, shouldn't we extend the same courtesy to ALL hairloss treatments?

Personally, I'd rather go with Revivogen or Crinagen than risk chemical castration with finasteride - but that's just me.

Cheers.

Jeremy

 

[Redbone]

I used spironolactone and it smells like a f*****g skunk really bad. I had to stop the sh*t, but I still have brushes and combs that wreak from the combination of minoxidil and spironolactone. I had to soak them in tomato juice then burn them.

 

[Mr T.]

I used spironolactone and it smells like a f*****g skunk really bad. I had to stop the sh*t, but I still have brushes and combs that wreak from the combination of minoxidil and spironolactone. I had to soak them in tomato juice then burn them.

Yeah, I think I'll give it a trial run. I MIGHT just use it at night. I don't want to walk around smelling like a skunk all damn day.

Do you use Lee's 2% or his 5%???

I think I'll order one of each and see which one smells less RANK.

I bet if this sh*t smelled like roses, we'd all have hair by now.

Cheers.

Jeremy

 

[Redbone]

No, i ordered the cheap 2% sh*t from hairlossproducts. I hear lee's is better, no stinky

 

[Lizzad]

How can you call Revivogen and Crinagen "crocs" when you don't even know whether or not there is any research that shows whether or not these things work???

First of all my question was rhetorical, forthermore i maintain, that there is no decent research that these products grow hair or reduce hairloss on a human scalp. I'm not interested in hamsters, mice or rats, nor 5-ar inhibition in the prostate. That is how i CAN call these products a croc.

Anyhow, to answer your question, yes there ARE studies, both in vivo AND in vitro. http://www.revivogen.com/research.html

The Azeliac acid & B6 study is a complete joke, and any serious researcher knows saw palmetto is of minor use at best as regards hairloss.

Fatty acids are excellent natural inhibitors of 5ar. Azelaic acid, zinc, and B6 have also been shown to inhibit 5ar, but I think that they've only been shown to do so in test tubes. Regardless, fatty acids DO work both in vivo and in vitro.

Perhaps certain fafft acids can be useful, but i certainly would not put my faith in them when there are PROVEN treatments available. Besides, who knows as to the quality or the ammount of fatty acids that these products contain as a %?
[/quote]

 

[Mr T.]

First of all my question was rhetorical

If it were rhetorical, then why did expect an answer???

forthermore i maintain, that there is no decent research that these products grow hair or reduce hairloss on a human scalp. I'm not interested in hamsters, mice or rats, nor 5-ar inhibition in the prostate. That is how i CAN call these products a croc.

Fatty acids have been shown to inhibit 5ar IN THE SCALP. How is that a croc?

The Azeliac acid & B6 study is a complete joke, and any serious researcher knows saw palmetto is of minor use at best as regards hairloss.

I'm not convinced about the efficacy of a.a. and b6 either. But I do trust the studies pertaining to fatty acids.

Perhaps certain fafft acids can be useful, but i certainly would not put my faith in them when there are PROVEN treatments available. Besides, who knows as to the quality or the ammount of fatty acids that these products contain as a %?

That's your perogative. I didn't say that YOU should use Revivogen. I don't work for the damn company, so I could care less whether you use it or not.

If you're on the Big Three, then you probably don't need a topical 5ar inhibitor. But I don't want to take Propecia, so I DO need a topical 5ar inhibitor. If it works, great. If it doesn't work, then oh well. I'll go bald. I'm not one of these manic people who is all like, "I MUST stop my hairloss or I'll simply die!!!" I'm gonna try a few things like Revivogen, spironolactone, minoxidil and some shampoos like nizoral and Nano. If they don't work, oh well. At least I gave it my all.

Btw, as long as we're talking about building a solid regimen based on credible research, you should probably know that spironolactone generally isn't effective unless it's used every several hours, ie. AT LEAST twice a day. I notice in your regimen that you only use it once a day.

Cheers.

Jeremy

 

[Lizzad]

Fatty acids have been shown to inhibit 5ar IN THE SCALP. How is that a croc?

Show me a study where thay have grown hair.

Btw, as long as we're talking about building a solid regimen based on credible research, you should probably know that spironolactone generally isn't effective unless it's used every several hours, ie. AT LEAST twice a day. I notice in your regimen that you only use it once a day.

Completely wrong. There are numerous studies that shoe spironolactone grows hair when being used twice per day. ie. the Italian study. You don't seem to know much about androgen receptors and upregulation. Simply because spironolactone has a half-life purported to be around 100-150mins, does not mean that after 100-150 mins one needs another application. If an application of spironolactone shuts down an androgen receptor, the recpetor may not be active agin until upregulation happens...we don't know how long this could take...anywhere between 1 second after the sprio becomes inactive or perhaps 12 hours later. Point is, there is empirical research showing spironolactone increases hair counts when used topically 2 x per day.

That, mentioned above, it a common misconception about topical spironolactone, one that simple minded ppl can't get their head around. On a different note, for specific reasons, an anti-androgen or 5-ar inhibitor is not the mainstay of my regimen, a growth stimulator is. I use the spironolactone as an additional product, as i'm not a major sufferer from normal androgenic hairloss.

Cheers Jeremy

 

[Mr T.]

Show me a study where thay have grown hair.

You're right. There are no such studies. Nonetheless, there is a good deal of science behind Revivogen, enough so that even if you don't trust it, you don't really have any grounds to call it a complete "croc."

Completely wrong. There are numerous studies that shoe spironolactone grows hair when being used twice per day. ie. the Italian study.

Wait...who 'shoes' spironolactone? What does 'shoeing' spironolactone entail? Giving it a good kick in the arse???

Um...go back and read my post. Didn't I say, "at least twice a day"??? At least twice means twice or more than twice, so I'm not surpised the Italian study showed good results with spironolactone being used twice a day.

That, mentioned above, it a common misconception about topical spironolactone, one that simple minded ppl can't get their head around.

In other words, you're trying to call me a f*****g moron, but in a more subtle way. Here's some advice: if you want to come right out and call someone a f*****g moron, don't be a pussy. Just do it. So I guess gourmetstylewellness.com and Bryan Shelton are "simple minded ppl" too since that information comes from THIS site. Bryan Shelton said it, gourmetstylewellness.com agreed with him and put it on his site. Go read it here: http://www.gourmetstylewellness.com/productrevi ... icle02.htm

You'll see that Bryan (and gourmetstylewellness.com agrees with him) says to use Revivogen with spironolactone TWICE A DAY.

On a different note, for specific reasons, an anti-androgen or 5-ar inhibitor is not the mainstay of my regimen, a growth stimulator is. I use the spironolactone as an additional product, as i'm not a major sufferer from normal androgenic hairloss.

What does that mean? What type of hairloss are you suffering from then???

Cheers Jeremy

Cheers mate.

Jeremy

 

[Lizzad]

Wait...who 'shoes' spironolactone? What does 'shoeing' spironolactone entail? Giving it a good kick in the arse???

Um...go back and read my post. Didn't I say, "at least twice a day"??? At least twice means twice or more than twice, so I'm not surpised the Italian study showed good results with spironolactone being used twice a day.

Dumbass, that was and is a typo, your getting VERY desperate now. :roll:

2 X a day to REGROW HAIR, so i use it 1x as i am MAINTAINING. I refer you back to what i said about me NOT being a sufferer from normal andgorenic hairloss...READ IT. 1 x a day is working fine for me, and as i said, a growth stimulator is the mainstay of my regimen. Read it. I don't need to use spironolactone twice per day.

And i was clearly correct about you knowing dada about androgen recperots as you seem to heve conveniently forgotten to reply to me on that issue.

Any more typos you wanna pick out? :roll:

 

[GourmetStyleWellness]

Mr T - I apply spironolactone immediately after shower, Revivogen a half hour later. spironolactone in the evening, revivogen a half hour before bed.

Lizzad is right there is no study done on revivogen and hair counts on humans. only mice.

Lizzad dont know if you pointed out that the spironolactone studies were for orally ingested. There may be some topically applied studies too but i dont know if they're on human scalps?

There are three tiers of products:

Tier 1: The only two that have actual hair loss trials on human heads: minoxidil and Propecia.

Tier 2: Unproven products that have the most possible scientific backing on their ingredients. Mostly done on mice and in test tubes. Studies are published in reputable dermatological journals and have been peer reviewed by outside sources. Revivogen, Crinagen, Folligen, Tricomin fall into this category.

Tier 3: Snake Oils and unsubstantiated claims products, including Fabao, Morehairin (Waseda), Mixtures of Chemicals that have clinical backing but are considered potentially unsafe, Herbal mixes with zero studies in mice or other, etc.

I only feel comfortable promoting Tier 1 and Tier 2 without explanation. Tier 3 has a place on these forums with a disclaimer/warning that they are experimental and we have little or no reason to believe they will work. That should always accompany Tier 3 discussions, I believe.

gourmetstylewellness.com

 

[Mr T.]

Wait...who 'shoes' spironolactone? What does 'shoeing' spironolactone entail? Giving it a good kick in the arse???

Um...go back and read my post. Didn't I say, "at least twice a day"??? At least twice means twice or more than twice, so I'm not surpised the Italian study showed good results with spironolactone being used twice a day.

Dumbass, that was and is a typo, your getting VERY desperate now. :roll:

2 X a day to REGROW HAIR, so i use it 1x as i am MAINTAINING. I refer you back to what i said about me NOT being a sufferer from normal andgorenic hairloss...READ IT. 1 x a day is working fine for me, and as i said, a growth stimulator is the mainstay of my regimen. Read it. I don't need to use spironolactone twice per day.

And i was clearly correct about you knowing dada about androgen recperots as you seem to heve conveniently forgotten to reply to me on that issue.

Any more typos you wanna pick out? :roll:

Jeez mate, are you such a f*****g prick you can't even take a joke??? I make a good point though: no one is going to take you seriously if you can't even f*****g type. There's no such thing as "dada." That's what little babies call their father. You mean "data." And there are no such thing as androgen "recperots." A typo is only a typo when it's relatively rare. If you make countless typos in just one short post, then you're simply a f*****g idiot. You either 1) can't spell or 2) can't type.

I didn't reply to you about the androgen receptors because I agreed with you. I never disagreed with you on that point.

As far as being able to maintain with one application of spironolactone a day, SHOW ME the research that says that one application of spironolactone is good enough for maintenance. SHOW ME. The Italian study with regrowth from spironolactone depended on two applications. Are there any studies where people maintain with ONE application??? You yourself state that you don't know how long it takes for upregulation to occur. So where is your proof that once a day is sufficient for maintenance?

You also didn't reply to my remark about your being a PUSSY. Maybe that's because you ARE in fact a little pussy b**ch and need to vent your attitude problem on a computer because you're too much of a b**ch to do it in real life.

b**ch.

Jeremy

 

[Lizzad]

http://www.geocities.com/bryan50001/spiro2.htm

Here's a topical spironolactone study (i think it's the right link, however the site is not available right now). I think there is some more info. on the links either "spiro1.htm" or "spironolactone.htm" too.

 

[Lizzad]

Jeez mate, are you such a f*****g prick you can't even take a joke??? I make a good point though: no one is going to take you seriously if you can't even f*****g type. There's no such thing as "dada." That's what little babies call their father. You mean "data." And there are no such thing as androgen "recperots." A typo is only a typo when it's relatively rare. If you make countless typos in just one short post, then you're simply a f*****g idiot. You either 1) can't spell or 2) can't type.

I didn't reply to you about the androgen receptors because I agreed with you. I never disagreed with you on that point.

As far as being able to maintain with one application of spironolactone a day, SHOW ME the research that says that one application of spironolactone is good enough for maintenance. SHOW ME. The Italian study with regrowth from spironolactone depended on two applications. Are there any studies where people maintain with ONE application??? You yourself state that you don't know how long it takes for upregulation to occur. So where is your proof that once a day is sufficient for maintenance?

You also didn't reply to my remark about your being a PUSSY. Maybe that's because you ARE in fact a little pussy b**ch and need to vent your attitude problem on a computer because you're too much of a b**ch to do it in real life.

b**ch.

Jeremy

(A) Your the one acting like a child boy. 22 acting 12.
(B) It's the meaning of the posts that count, and anyone with a decent IQ could understand them.
(C) So your pro-typist (great career), or (b) type really slowly with one finger, hence you make less mistakes. Well done! :lol:
(D) I'm not your mate, and jokes are intended to be funny. I don't see anyone here laughing.

 

[Lizzad]

And (E)

You also didn't reply to my remark about your being a PUSSY. Maybe that's because you ARE in fact a little pussy b**ch and need to vent your attitude problem on a computer because you're too much of a b**ch to do it in real life.

Don't act tough on the net, if you wanna act tough do it for real, in my experience internet hard men are skinny little geeks. You merely will not bow to my superiority. I very much doubt you'd try flame me to my face. Prove me wrong. :roll: