Adams story - pics included/advice needed pls

[adam1987]

Hello Everyone,

I am hoping that a few people here can help me as I havebeen a long time reader and greatly appreciate of everyone who contributes andhelps run the site. So thank you firstly.

So my story, I think I started losing my hair when I was18/19 but only started to really notice it when I was 23 as my hair had beenquite long. I had a receding hairline and it has been getting worse since, I amnow 25 and am panicking a bit because I don’t think much seems to be workingbut more importantly my hair seems to be getting weaker and receding at thefront, I am at that stage where I haven’t got much more time before I think itsbecomes a real issue so I am coming here for help/advice and support.
Like many of you here it’s starting to affect my confidencea little.

I have been on finasteride (proscar) 2.5mg and rogaine foam andrecently added nizoral 2% for about 5 months now and have been going through abig shed and the hair at the front of the hairline is getting weaker andfalling out and I don’t see anything re growing,
I know shedding is expected and that it is responding, but Iam not sure if its responding positively.
I thought that that the increase in finasteride would help fight myhairloss but it seems to be reacting not as I hoped.
I know that I need to give it longer that 4 months beforeanyone pounces on me, but my question is how long do I give it before I realisethat its not working and I need to add or do something different. I amperfectly fine with keeping with what I have got.


How my hair was in December 2011

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/546/002pli.jpg/
Hair now (different angles and close ups)

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/203/hair008.jpg/http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/5/hair004a.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/841/hair014.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/401/007wy.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/18/hair011.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/825/003wfg.jpg/


I don’t know weather I should switch to a different minoxidilwould help or what other brand would people recommend?

I haven’t bothered much with supplements or herbal treatments,I am a little bit sceptical about these, but it might be worth trying somethingand adding it to the regime. I don’t know what other treatments are after finasteride, Imust have read the reviews for finasteride and regaine foam on the website about 10times trying to convince myself that they should work, you just need to bepatient. I read that it can take up to a year to start working but still whatworries me if I continue with the treatment for a year and my hair just appearsto get weaker and weaker at the front. So then what do you recommend I go withnext?
I have tried to show the hair weak at the front in thephotos.

Luckily I didn’t get any sides from finasteride, I think I mighthave had mood swings but that’s about it.

I really am desperate here, I know my hairloss is not as badas others but I know for a fact that it’s going to get worse in the next fewyears and I am at that point where it going to start to effect how I am and I don’twant to go down that route.

So thanks for reading and if anyone has any help or adviceplease help a young guy who is struggling a little.

Adam

 

[Korean Wave]

I'm not an expert, but I think your hair is in great condition. There is no real need for you to be taking those drugs yet. Your hair condition doesn't need drastic action. It needs close observation and you need to stop stressing. However, if you are worried please see a dermatologist or a doctor. Any advice given to you on here isn't professional. I'm simply giving you an opinion.

 

[adam1987]

Hi Korean wave, I didn't want professional advice, it was more with the products and some information about them from "more experience people" than myself. I can use any advice, for example how long should you proceed using finasteride before you hair gets any worse? The problem is that I know my hairline will get worse and my best chance to combat it is to do something about it now as I want to keep my hair or as much of it as I can before it gets worse in a few years time.

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bump

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bump

 

[adam1987]

any help with products advice please guys?

 

[The_Mentalist]

This is just my opinion and not anything confirmed or absolute advise what you should or should not do. I believe you do have Androgenetic Alopecia which you already know from your own observation and intuitive feelings. Your second last picture of your temple leaves no doubt about your Androgenetic Alopecia status, and that you have deep recession surrounded by otherwise thick hair scalp. This is classic sign of Androgenetic Alopecia where deep temple recession is soon met with thinning hair all over the top and possibly forming an island at frontal. Given your dark hair, as for many with darker pigmented hair, the process is relatively slower. Yours took so many years before it is creeping on you, and may possibly be little bit accelerated as you age. I am seeing a lot of fine short hair at your hairline which may be new hair growing due to finasteride. use, or to a lesser degree the dying hair that gets thinner and week due to Androgenetic Alopecia. You would know better if you were actually keeping a tab closely for a period of time. I would suggest continue with finasteride-it might be working well for you. 5 months is very short time to assess any benefits. Other than, I am not sure what opinion or advise do you want from us? (a quick unrelated question: The "Enter" key is not working for me in these posting frames and thus am unable to form new line or paragraph. IS that a glitch with this board or is it just me?)

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And to answer your other questions I missed. All minoxidil. brands are the same active ingredient which is the minoxidil. Different brands have simply different ratio of alc. and PG added. Switching brands would make not much difference if at all. Buy any inexpensive generic brand and try it. The only difference from brand to brand would be cosmetic, that is you might find one drying, and another oily or irritating and so on. Since you are on medicine that would help profoundly but herbals and supplements are not a bad idea. a) use garlic; I would go for fresh garlic, inexpensive and not processed so it is all natural. Eat a clove or two few times a day or just eat with your meal or salad. You may also find Biotin helpful. Other herbals such as MSM also bring visible results to your hair quality.

 

[adam1987]

Hi, Thank you for your opinion and advice and yes the enter key isn't working for me also. I think the hair on the hairline is dying hair as it is becoming thinner and thinner, I want to tackle this asap and am thinking about other possible treatments other than finasteride if finasteride doesn't have an effect, I have very aggressive receding at the moment, and I haven't had much of a reaction at 4 months. So what are the alternatives to finasteride? No your advice was great, but at the end of the day I am in the same boat as you and just want something to work, luckily for me I haven't suffered from too many sides and seem to be ok, but if I don't see any progress beyond a year then what do I need to do? - any suggestive treatments? I am at the point where id I don't get something to work its just going to get worse and worse and am prepared to get aggressive with it but not entirely sure which way to go, I mean could I ask a herbal treatment like procerin to the routine just to see if it kicks in at all? Thank you

 

[adam1987]

Where would be the most reliable place to get Avodart? There also isn't too much information about Avodart on this site either compared to some of the other products? Have been told about in-house pharmacy Europe and have been told they are quite good and there products are reliable. I don't know any other place to get dutasteride from? Does anyone know if the side effects increase with taking dutasteride as well? Thanks again if anyone can help.

 

[adam1987]

I will be honest, I don't know really what to do, I know its a risk but I know my hairline will get worse and worse especially if I don't tackle it now. I either have to continue with propecia or switch to dutasteride and hope for the best whilst combining some biotin and minoxidil. I don't think there is much more I can do. I didn't get any sides as far as im aware with propecia so I will see. But just evaluating my hair at the moment, its starting to get weaker and weaker especially at the front of the hairline where you can start to see small gaps in between the hairline. If any long term posters could help me with any knowledge of dutasteride and propecia I would be greatful thank you.

 

[WarLord]

I will be honest, I don't know really what to do, I know its a risk but I know my hairline will get worse and worse especially if I don't tackle it now. I either have to continue with propecia or switch to dutasteride and hope for the best whilst combining some biotin and minoxidil. I don't think there is much more I can do. I didn't get any sides as far as im aware with propecia so I will see. But just evaluating my hair at the moment, its starting to get weaker and weaker especially at the front of the hairline where you can start to see small gaps in between the hairline. If any long term posters could help me with any knowledge of dutasteride and propecia I would be greatful thank you.

What is not much frequently emphasized is the fact that the efficiacy of finasteride in young men is lower than the usually reported average. It is not "close to 90%", but rather "closer to 80%". Therefore, if you are young and your male pattern baldness proceeds fast, don't waste your time by playing with finasteride! You must jump on the most effective treatment that is available - dutasteride. Then you will know that you did everything that you could. Internet forums are full of young guys, who waited for 1 year, hoping that finasteride would help - and ended up frustrated, with hair much worse than at the beginning (and difficult to regrow back).

And as for "side effects" - the funniest thing is that many men report increased libido on dutasteride, which is quite expectable, owing to the increased testosterone levels. (I did as well.) Hypochondriacs from internet forums think that when dutasteride is "stronger" than finasteride, its negative effect on libido will be "stronger" as well. But the opposite is true.
http://www.hairsite2.com/library/article243.htm
"Contrary to what we expect, several actually reported an increase in libido and sex drive." (lol)

 

[Malin]

I'm doing kinda fine after 2.5 years on finastiride (21 y/o now), try propecia first, don't give it 1 year, give it 2, then decide.

 

[adam1987]

Thanks for posting guys, I think everyone reacts differently and my hair just appears to be getting weaker , especially on the hairline, at the back I am fine, but as you can tell by my pics, I am at that "this is your last chance to do something about it or its only going one way stage". I agree with what you say malin about 2 years, you need to give it time, but what is worrying me is if I don't get the results in 2 years and my hair is a lot worse than I will only regret not switching to dutasteride, even though I was right to wait to give finasteride enough time to work. Thanks for the info warlord, im learning all the time. Regarding minoxidil is there a big difference between liquid and foam as I personally would choose liquid as my hair is quite long and I can get to areas that foam cannot, I will just put up with the run off etc...and one last question, I know you cut up finasteride into 1/4 for example if you get proscar, do you do the same with dutasteride? Thanks again

 

[adam1987]

I know with the foam it says that you have more success but I am not sure about that, to be successful with hairloss you need a combination of many things. I will go with the liquid,

 

[WarLord]

I'm doing kinda fine after 2.5 years on finastiride (21 y/o now), try propecia first, don't give it 1 year, give it 2, then decide.

Why should he start with finasteride, when there is already a far more effective drug available? You were fine, but others weren't, as I see over and over again on internet forums. I myself wasted 8 months of my life on finasteride, patiently waiting, when my DHT levels finally drop and when my incessant shedding in temples stop. One day I said to myself: This ordeal must end. And I jumped on dutasteride. After 8 weeks, my DHT levels dropped by one-third, and I used only 0.25 mg dutasteride/day.

With finasteride you have something like 85-90% chance to succeed (actually, when you are young, it is more like 80%), but with dutasteride, your chances rise up to 100%. The choice of finasteride has no rational basis at this moment.

 

[adam1987]

Thanks for your feedback warlord, I was also wondering what dosage you recommend I start from as I know the levels in the tablets are different from finasteride, so do I cut up the tablet into quarters again for example? Any feedback from dutasteride users would be great. thanks.

 

[WarLord]

Thanks for your feedback warlord, I was also wondering what dosage you recommend I start from as I know the levels in the tablets are different from finasteride, so do I cut up the tablet into quarters again for example? Any feedback from dutasteride users would be great. thanks.

0.5 mg every day is the standard dose. But the effect further rises, when you increase dosage. In fact, these high dosages were tested in a study from 2006 and 2.5 mg/day regrew 16% more hair than 0.5 mg/day within 6 months.
http://www.hairstransplanted.com/articles/PDF_Dual_5_a_Reductase_inhibition_MPHL.pdf

As far as I know, dutasteride (Avodart) is produced in capsules everywhere, so you can't cut them.

The only serious risk (besides imaginary "sexual side effects") that I am aware of is the possibility of marked shedding during the first weeks/months on dutasteride. Some people's hormonal systems may have problems, when adjusting to the drug, because it suddenly suppresses almost 100% of your DHT. These internet stories discouraged me from the use of dutasteride, but all I can say is that after 11 weeks on dutasteride, my hair is stabilized. Nothing wrong is happening. But I started very slowly, on 0.5 mg every 4 days (=0.125 mg/day). After 11 weeks, I am on 0.375 mg/day (3 capsules every 4 days). Therefore, I would recommend you to start very slowly, too, with 1 capsule added every week. You can add it to your finasteride regime, and one day after several weeks/months, you can stop finasteride completely. Two dutasteride capsules a week will already match the effect of finasteride, so it is a very strong drug. And I think that 1 capsule every other day will suffice to stop hairloss in almost all men.

But don't forget to measure your DHT and testosterone levels before you jump on dutasteride. It is extremely important, because otherwise you won't know, how the drug works. I realized very early that finasteride was useless in me, because I was getting DHT values between 25-32 ng/dl (which is an utter joke). Hence it made no sense to continue in this farce. Now my DHT is 17 ng/dl (and this result is 2,5 weeks old). Basically, you must get under 20 ng/dl to be in the "safe zone".

 

[adam1987]

Hi Warlord, firstly thank you for your advice and knowledge, its more than helpful so thanks. I will get my DHT and testosterone levels tested, im from the UK, so I assume I just need to go to my local doctor and get it set up? I will come back with the results here and see what I get. I will probably buy but over at inhouse pharmacy as I don't know where else to get it. I didn't quite understand the dosage you recommend I start with, one capsule every other day? Thanks again for your help mate. Glad things have gone well for yourself. We are in the struggle.

 

[The_Mentalist]

I think there is one point missing here. dutasteride reduces/eliminates the second type of alpha enzyme as well, which in turn reduces dht even further that finasteride alone can not. BUT, the problem is that the second type of alpha-reductase enzyme is also responsible for making brain steroid or something to that nature. Which in turn, affects other functions. That is why, there is a greater risk of weakness, fatigue and depression with dutasteride. Thus, dutasteride may be more effective and renders finasteride. obsolete, but side effects may be unnecessarily more profound with dutasteride than those with finasteride. If finasteride works for someone sufficiently, then try to avoid dutasteride or keep to minimum level

 

[adam1987]

I don't understand why finasteride didn't work.....I was on 2.5mg a day and it just didn't have much effect on me at all. I am worried about going on dutasteride, so have to be careful, dutasteride is also a lot more expensive compared to finasteride, or where I get my finasteride from anyway. I mean how long do you need to be on finasteride before you have to admit this simply isn't going to work - a year for example? I mean if your hair continue to get worse when on finasteride for over 6 months then its very difficult to keep the faith and continue.

 

[talmoode]

12 months...but I have read that some people have some very good results after 18 to 24 months...I am almost into 16 months on the treatment and I am really hoping that something good will come out of this endless ordeal ...soon,....

 

[adam1987]

Hi Talmode, yeah I have also heard the same that results for some are seen in the second year, I think the problem I have is my hairloss is aggressive and I am not sure that finasteride is working as my hairline is becoming weaker and its also starting to effect my scalp area as well, so I may risk going on dutasteride and getting tough with it after I get my doctor to do some testosterone tests on me and see what comes out of that. I hope that you get something out of it bud and keep yourself going.

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Well that was all very strange, the doctor is went to arrange the DHT tests and testosterone basically said I don't need it for finasteride and I said that it was for dutasteride...and he hadn't heard of this drug and basically doctors don't prescribe it and he needs a reason for legal reasons to arrange the tests for me, he then asked me who was prescribing the drug and I di mention that I could get it online and he tried to put me off the idea and said that he wouldn't organise the tests because he needs a reason, I tried to explain to him for safety and precaution reasons I just needed to get my current results recorded before I go on the drug. So now I am in a bit of a dilemma what to do now........I still what to test the drug for a month soon and see how I react...