can't believe this...after 7 yrs on Propecia...32 yrs old

[StoptheMadness]

On 4/2/2011 I had my first case of erectile dysfunction. I am currently taking Propecia for the last 6-7 years. I also apply topically (rogaine -8 yrs to current, xandrox -5 yrs stopped, dr. lee spironolactone cream -5 yrs stopped and dr. lee 15% minoxidil -5 yr stopped).

Since xandrox (and the rest of dr. lee's meds) is done for, I decided to try revivogen for the 1st time on 4/1/2011 at night.......

I don't know if this is coincidental but in the shower on 4/2/2011 I only had a partial erection! Always had been complete erection. I tried to masterbate on 4/2/2011 once after morning shower and once more late at night. Both times I was successful but with great difficulty in trying to get an erection (it took between 2-4 minutes each time to become erect). Once erect I was able to ejaculate fine the 1st time but a much thinner (i.e. more like a thin stream) ejaculate the 2nd.

Today, 4/3/2011 I tried to masterbate again and it took 2 minutes to become only partially erect and I could not finish.

All this above was never a problem until 4/2/2011. I had never previously complained about any sides. And I always had instantaneous erections with no problem ejaculating.

Today I feel a kind of "numbness" in the groin and cannot will myself to erection.

I certainly will call my doctors (primary care and dermo) and tell them what is going on.

It is just so weird how I tried for the 1st time Revivogen 1ml at night and the next morning I have ID. It's just to weird for me to comprehend.

 

[Prop]

oh god, ur story is very similar to mine

tale a look on my thread
i wish ur prognosys will be different to mine and u will recover soon

 

[StoptheMadness]

oh god, ur story is very similar to mine

tale a look on my thread
i wish ur prognosys will be different to mine and u will recover soon

thank you for the wishes. I assumed you stopped taking due to lower libido? I am not sure if you actually had erectile dysfunction (the kind that I am experiencing) while on propecia?

just a couple of differences from your thread are that I had never stopped taking propecia! Tomorrow, if I don't take it, would be the 1st time in 7 yrs not taking propecia.

 

[Prop]

thank you for the wishes. I assumed you stopped taking due to lower libido? I am not sure if you actually had erectile dysfunction (the kind that I am experiencing) while on propecia?

just a couple of differences from your thread are that I had never stopped taking propecia! Tomorrow, if I don't take it, would be the 1st time in 7 yrs not taking propecia.

in 2008 i had my very first case of ed in all my life.
i said tomyself that can happen and i didn't worry to much.
however i decided to stop propecia
(also because the effect onmy hair was no more very good)

since that episode i felt myself a bit less "potent" but i thougth that maybe was stress or other causes

this feeling didn't go away and about months i had a crash
(bad pain in testicles, strange sensations in all genital area)
after this i had persistent sides.
well, after 3 yrs these r very less strong, but i'm not like i was before.

for quit propecia Here people suggest do not quit cold turkey (as i did) but reduce the amount day by day till u stop (this for avoid possible crash)

however get spermiogram and blood test done

 

[Wuffer]

You've been on for 7 years with absolutely no problems but then suddenly you can't get it up one time and blame it on finasteride?

You are jumping to a pretty big conclusion here. I wouldn't completely rule the fact that it might be causing this, but I would say it's very unlikely!

Just keep in mind there are hundreds of causes of ed. The main one being you are getting older, and getting it up isn't as easy at it was when you were 25.

Have you been reading a lot of these propecia horror stories about permanent ed lately? I strongly suspect this might be part of the problem as well.

If you had just started finasteride recently, I would be more inclined to say it might be causing it.. But the fact that you have been on it for 7 years makes me seriously doubt it.

Another thing to note; you say you are 'willing' yourself into getting an erection. It doesn't work like that, even though none of us notice it since it is so natural. When you are thinking "oh man I hope I can get it up this time" and start whacking away at it, you aren't going to get any results. Erections only come when your mind is free of doubt, and when you are 100% in to it. There is a huge mental factor to all this.

When you have doubt in your mind, and you know you are on a drug that can potentially cause ed, it's a really bad mix.

As always; talk to your doctor if you are concerned.

 

[Ende]

I wouldn't completely rule the fact that it might be causing this, but I would say it's very unlikely!

If you had just started finasteride recently, I would be more inclined to say it might be causing it.. But the fact that you have been on it for 7 years makes me seriously doubt it.

The testosterone production gradually declines as men age, which slowly shifts the testosterone/estrogen ratio towards estrogen dominance. Why is it unlikely that the drug is causing these problems? It may turn against you at any time. It's simply because of the way it works.

 

[Mens Rea]

Wuffer i tihnk you need to take a look at Monty's story.

I wouldn't completely rule the fact that it might be causing this, but I would say it's very unlikely!

If you had just started finasteride recently, I would be more inclined to say it might be causing it.. But the fact that you have been on it for 7 years makes me seriously doubt it.

The testosterone production gradually declines as men age, which slowly shifts the testosterone/estrogen ratio towards estrogen dominance. Why is it unlikely that the drug is causing these problems? It may turn against you at any time. It's simply because of the way it works.

Precisely. It's really a case by case basis. HOWEVER, finasteride can set you up for future issues when the T/E ratio starts to shift further (naturally). Wuffer i don't think you fully appreciate how finasteride changes one's entire hormonal profile.

 

[StoptheMadness]

Common sense is the Propecia will have a proportionate amount of blame but I don't think it's just because of that medicine. Propecia wasn't the only antiandrogen I was on (the rest being topicals) + plus 2% keto once a week.

It is hard to ignore that the night before my ED developed, I applied my first revivogen dose. What the hell? Nothing is certain given the multiple meds.

anyways, I made an appointment with an endocrinologist may 5th. I am actually waiting to schedule with another endo that my primary doctor referred me too. This way I would have 2 opinions.

Also I have an appointment with a urologist next week (for the ED)...

 

[Wuffer]

I agree with you guys here; It definitely affects hormones. However, it's clear that these changes don't adversely affect the vast majority of men. I think if an individual already has high estrogen levels, or risk factors that could raise it (obesity, alcholism, age etc) then the raise propecia causes may indeed push cergain men into the danger zone.

It's good to keep an eye on things and get regular blood tests while on finasteride.
Unfortunately, it's pretty difficult to know how much a certain individual is able to handle such hormonal changes. Again, it seems like the majority of men have bodies that can handle finasteride for the long term. If you aren't one of these men, you will usually know pretty quickly. But there are exceptions to every rule.. You see bodybuilders that inject rediculous amounts of hormones and don't skip a beat, and you see others that completely mess up their bodies permanently after one dose.

Anyway, I haven't seen any evidence that Nizoral, revivogen, or any other topical currently available will affect DHT levels in your bloodstream. There are reports of them blocking DHT in your scalp, but this doesn't affect your hormonal make-up as a whole. Keto does not affect your sexual function. It's good that you are getting a blood workup and seeing a urologist.

Are you still experiencing symptoms of ED?

 

[Prop]

I agree with you guys here; It definitely affects hormones.

not only.
unfortunately there aren't right test for a precise dyagnose of
fina damages

after blood tests a spermiogram may put in evidence if u r sensible to finasteride

 

[Ende]

Yeah, but I guess the answer is regular blood tests. At least once a year.

 

[Ende]

I wonder, did finasteride affect sperm in the trials?

 

[StoptheMadness]

Are you still experiencing symptoms of ED?

Yes

This morning was the 2nd day in a row that I have not taken my 1mL of propecia (after 7 years of being on it). My ED symptoms started this past Saturday. So it went downhill pretty fast Saturday to Sunday. It was on Sunday and Monday that I could not get an erection at all even when looking at p**rn!! That is scary because it had always been instantaneous (except I had an nocturnal erection both nights).

Yesterday after work I tried to masterbate to p**rn and no erection at all...At night though before I went to bed I tried again and was successful. It did take me 1 minute or so to get hard.

In the shower this morning I tried to get hard and did (was not able to Sunday or Monday) but it was only like 80% of pre-Saturday hardness. I also had one nocturnal erection too this morning (3rd day in a row with at least that). I guess that wakes me up??

 

[Wuffer]

I wonder, did finasteride affect sperm in the trials?

I've read pretty much every trial on Finasteride and never saw anything about sperm being affected. However, I doubt this is something that they check during most drug trials. I guess if the science behind how the drug works doesn't implicate sperm as being effected, then they won't bother checking.

I think the biggest negative reproductive effect finasteride would have is decreased ejaculate volume, as we all know it's the main vehicle for sperm to reach their destination. I haven't personally had this side effect to any degree, but I know many report it.

However, I already have a son and decreased 'potency' wouldn't be the biggest concern to me. Funny how things can end up on a drunken night out celebrating your 22nd birthday!

 

[StoptheMadness]

Keto does not affect your sexual function.

Can a reduction in testosterone affect your sexual function, Wuffer?

Check out the last sentence too.

http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/sexdysguid.pdf see page 7

Drug-Related Causes
Both prescription and over-the-counter medications
have been shown to be the cause of erectile problems in as
many as 25% of cases (Table 1). Although single medications
can induce erectile dysfunction, the adverse effects
of medications are often additive. This situation is particularly
frequent in older men who are taking multiple medications,
and partial or complete erectile dysfunction often
results. A psychologic component can make partial erectile
dysfunction progress to complete erectile dysfunction.
Some medications can affect libido, whereas others affect
erectile function or ejaculation. Nonprescription medications,
such as antihistamines or decongestants, may also
impair erectile function.
Most psychotropic drugs can affect libido or erectile
function, either through a direct action or by increasing
prolactin or decreasing testosterone levels. Although antidepressants
may cause erectile dysfunction in susceptible
patients, they may also be beneficial in improving libido in
depressed men. Antihypertensive medications may cause
erectile dysfunction either by drug-specific effects or by
decreasing the systolic blood pressure and thereby
decreasing the intracavernosal penile pressure. This effect
is especially prevalent in patients with diabetes or hypertension
who have underlying microvascular disease.
Ketoconazole, aminoglutethimide, and similar drugs actually
decrease the production of testosterone. Most of the
earlier antihypertensive agents—such as reserpine,
guanethidine, and hydralazine—caused sexual dysfunction.
Some ?-adrenergic blocking agents may cause sexual
problems, but dysfunction with angiotensin-converting
enzyme inhibitors or calcium channel blockers is less
common. Some drugs (spironolactone, cimetidine, flutamide,
or cyproterone acetate) may block the peripheral
androgen receptors. Cimetidine may assume a greater
importance because it can now be purchased without a prescription. Drugs such as ?-methyldopa, spironolactone,
digoxin, and metoclopramide may raise prolactin levels.
Thiazide diuretics, finasteride, anticholinergic agents, and
pain medications can cause erectile dysfunction."

 

[Wuffer]

Stopthemadness, I've always been amazed at what you can find on the internet if you look hard enough! As Finfighter mentioned, it's only when you take it orally. Topical application won't cause any of these effects unless you literally bathe in the stuff.. Even then i'm not sure!

Looking at your situation objectively, the fact that you have morning erections is great. Actually, this is another clue that your problems may be in your mind. Almost all the guys that complain about true sexual problems from finasteride completely lose morning erections as well. Many believe this is a precursor to more serious problems, but thats a debate for another time.

In the end, none of us can diagnose you. That's up to you and your doctor.. We can all continue to speculate, but its up to you to figure this out. Again, the fact that you get normal (i will assume 100%) morning erections points the cause of your problems elsewhere. True ED from finasteride stops the function of a full erection without the help of ed drugs, even at night or in the mornings.

 

[Prop]

I've read pretty much every trial on Finasteride and never saw anything about sperm being affected.

there r studies somwhere, i read it

Finasteride-induced secondary infertility associated with sperm DNA damage.

CONCLUSION(S): The significant reduction in DFI within 3 months of finasteride cessation and continued improvement suggests a causal link between finasteride and sperm DNA damage.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21292254

Propecia-induced spermatogenic failure: a report of two cases.

Abstract
OBJECTIVE: To describe the results of two cases of azoospermia and severe oligospermia in men during and after cessation of finasteride 1 mg.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18054928

 

[StoptheMadness]

Stopthemadness, I've always been amazed at what you can find on the internet if you look hard enough! As Finfighter mentioned, it's only when you take it orally. Topical application won't cause any of these effects unless you literally bathe in the stuff.. Even then i'm not sure!

Looking at your situation objectively, the fact that you have morning erections is great. Actually, this is another clue that your problems may be in your mind. Almost all the guys that complain about true sexual problems from finasteride completely lose morning erections as well. Many believe this is a precursor to more serious problems, but thats a debate for another time.

In the end, none of us can diagnose you. That's up to you and your doctor.. We can all continue to speculate, but its up to you to figure this out. Again, the fact that you get normal (i will assume 100%) morning erections points the cause of your problems elsewhere. True ED from finasteride stops the function of a full erection without the help of ed drugs, even at night or in the mornings.

All I know is I'm confident it's not a mental issues re: ED

When ED happens, out of the blue, for a healthy, sexually active 32 yr old male, this is a signal that something is not right. Which is why I am going to see endocrin/urologist docs to help me figure out what is going on.

 

[Wuffer]

Thanks for the info Propecia, I haven't seen either of those but also haven't actively looked into this particular side effect.. I will check those out when I have some more time!

Good luck with your ed problems man, be sure to let us know what happens in the end. Have you decided to come off finasteride for good now? Did you talk to your prescribing doctor about stopping treatment? If you want to get the full picture of what is going on, it would be best to still be on the medication. Since coming off it causes your hormones to change significantly, blood tests may yield inconclusive results. Keep in mind that it takes at least 2 weeks for your hormone levels to return to normal after quitting. In your case after having been on for 7 years, it may take longer.

 

[Ende]

When ED happens, out of the blue, for a healthy, sexually active 32 yr old male, this is a signal that something is not right. Which is why I am going to see endocrin/urologist docs to help me figure out what is going on.

Everything will most likely appear within "normal ranges"... It's a waste of time and money. You won't get any help. I say, go with your instinct.