Do You Think My Homemade Minoxidil Solution Will Work?

[biffcake]

I finally got minoxidil powder to dissolve after multiple attempts. I tried multiple variations of heating high alcohol/low glycerin vehicles, but some of the minoxidil powder would clump up into sort of a doughy ball while stirring. I originally thought this meant the minoxidil powder was fake because I know minoxidil will crystallize out of solution, but I've never heard of it clumping up. Then I stumbled upon this video and it worked.

.
I heated a 40% alcohol, 40% glycerin, and 20% water vehicle and was able to make a 15% minoxidil that did not crystallize or clump up. However, this solution was very greasy, so I tinkered with it a bit. I tried 40% alcohol, 10% glycerin, and 50% water, which dissolved, but crystallized later (I took this to mean the minoxidil powder was real since that is what minoxidil is supposed to do when not in a proper solution.). I now have two solutions of 15% minoxidil that seem to stable. One 40% alcohol, 20% glycerin, and 40% water. The other 40% alcohol, 30% glycerin, and 30% water. Everything seems right. The solutions have a slight yellow tint like store bought minoxidil solutions and nothing is crystallizing out. I have some concerns though:

1. The minoxidil powder is not micronized. I always thought minoxidil had to be micronized to make a high percentage solution. I contacted MinoxidilMax, the makers of Dualgen 15, about their minoxidil and they stated that it does not matter if the minoxidil is micronized or not as long as it can be brought into solution. I'm not sure if this is true

2. I can't get anything greater than a 40% alcohol in the vehicle or else the minoxidil will not dissolve. The minoxidil also doesn't dissolve unless the vehicle has some water in it. Neither makes sense because minoxidil is very soluble in alcohol and poorly soluble in water. The necessity of water makes me doubt the minoxidil powder authenticity (though the crystallizing of the 10% glycerin solution and the yellow tint of the solutions point to it being authentic). The low alcohol content makes me worry about absorption.

3. I used glycerin, not anhydrous glycerol, which is what I believe is used in minoxidil solutions that use glycerin instead of propylene glycol. I'm not sure if this matters.

Has anyone ever made their own minoxidil solution? If so, is there any advice or information you can give give? Thanks.

 

[AleV]

I finally got minoxidil powder to dissolve after multiple attempts. I tried multiple variations of heating high alcohol/low glycerin vehicles, but some of the minoxidil powder would clump up into sort of a doughy ball while stirring. I originally thought this meant the minoxidil powder was fake because I know minoxidil will crystallize out of solution, but I've never heard of it clumping up. Then I stumbled upon this video and it worked.

.
I heated a 40% alcohol, 40% glycerin, and 20% water vehicle and was able to make a 15% minoxidil that did not crystallize or clump up. However, this solution was very greasy, so I tinkered with it a bit. I tried 40% alcohol, 10% glycerin, and 50% water, which dissolved, but crystallized later (I took this to mean the minoxidil powder was real since that is what minoxidil is supposed to do when not in a proper solution.). I now have two solutions of 15% minoxidil that seem to stable. One 40% alcohol, 20% glycerin, and 40% water. The other 40% alcohol, 30% glycerin, and 30% water. Everything seems right. The solutions have a slight yellow tint like store bought minoxidil solutions and nothing is crystallizing out. I have some concerns though:

1. The minoxidil powder is not micronized. I always thought minoxidil had to be micronized to make a high percentage solution. I contacted MinoxidilMax, the makers of Dualgen 15, about their minoxidil and they stated that it does not matter if the minoxidil is micronized or not as long as it can be brought into solution. I'm not sure if this is true

2. I can't get anything greater than a 40% alcohol in the vehicle or else the minoxidil will not dissolve. The minoxidil also doesn't dissolve unless the vehicle has some water in it. Neither makes sense because minoxidil is very soluble in alcohol and poorly soluble in water. The necessity of water makes me doubt the minoxidil powder authenticity (though the crystallizing of the 10% glycerin solution and the yellow tint of the solutions point to it being authentic). The low alcohol content makes me worry about absorption.

3. I used glycerin, not anhydrous glycerol, which is what I believe is used in minoxidil solutions that use glycerin instead of propylene glycol. I'm not sure if this matters.

Has anyone ever made their own minoxidil solution? If so, is there any advice or information you can give give? Thanks.

A bit unrelated but minoxidilmax is still running right? i tried contacting them and the autogenerated reply says "hear back in one day" but its been like 2 weeks...

 

[biffcake]

A bit unrelated but minoxidilmax is still running right? i tried contacting them and the autogenerated reply says "hear back in one day" but its been like 2 weeks...

I assume so. Their website is still up and I just ordered some Dualgen from them about a month ago. When I contacted them they responded pretty quickly from what I remember. Try sending another email.

 

[Kirkland13]

A few things. What minoxidil are you using? How much are you putting in? What type of alcohol are you using? Dr. Lee’s Xandrox patent gives very specific instructions about the order or “cooking” the combo. First heat glycerin to 60d. C. Then add pure minoxidil to make a thick white slurry. Stir for 10 mins. Then add Ethanol. Bring temperature down to 40d. C stir constantly. Adjust the PH to about 5.6 with either anhydrous citric acid or phosphoric acid.

 

[HotnTexas]

is minoxidilmax a legit site? is it better than an murray apothecary?

 

[biffcake]

A few things. What minoxidil are you using? How much are you putting in? What type of alcohol are you using? Dr. Lee’s Xandrox patent gives very specific instructions about the order or “cooking” the combo. First heat glycerin to 60d. C. Then add pure minoxidil to make a thick white slurry. Stir for 10 mins. Then add Ethanol. Bring temperature down to 40d. C stir constantly. Adjust the PH to about 5.6 with either anhydrous citric acid or phosphoric acid.

I'm not sure what you mean what minoxidil I'm using. I bought some minoxidil powder from Aliexpress. I made a 100ml solution with 15g of minoxidil powder and 5g azelaic acid. I've used 95% ethanol denatured with 5% IPA and SDA-40B perfumer's alcohol, which is <99% ethanol. I did follow those heating directions and it works to dissolve the solutions I mentioned above, but Dr. Lee's vehicle was 80% ethanol 20% glycerin. I could never get the minoxidil to dissolve in that solution,even with the addition of azelaic acid and phosphoric acid. It would clump up into a ball while stirring.

 

[biffcake]

is minoxidilmax a legit site? is it better than an murray apothecary?

I've only ordered from there once, but they seem legit. I had no problems with them. I never heard of Murray Apothecary, but it looks like you need a prescription to get anything higher than 2% minoxidil from them, with MinoxidilMax you don't need a prescription. If you have a prescription, I would say getting your Minoxidil from an actual compounding pharmacy is probably the better way to go.

 

[biffcake]

Did you use Dr. Lee's 15% Xandrox minoxidil in the past? It was a very thick yellowish substance, almost like glue, which also left a layer on the scalp after it dried - very different from regular 5% minoxidil. Does the clumping up you're referring to resemble this somewhat perhaps?

It's very exciting to read about your project of trying to recreate Dr. Lee's 15% minoxidil. If it's not too much trouble then please keep us all updated on your progress!

I didn't use Dr. Lee's Xandrox, but I have used Xandrox from Xandrox.com. I'm not sure if they are the same formulation, but it was pretty sticky. The clumping seemed to be the minoxidil powder. Mixing would create sort of a dense ball of minoxidil powder that wouldn't dissolve and settle at the bottom. I will definitely update when I can confirm if it works or not. Right now I am using my homemade solutions solely for beard growth. It does seem like I have more vellus hairs growing in since I started using it, but I will need to continue using it for a few months before I can confidently say if it works or not.

 

[-Synergy-]

Can somebody explain to me how you would get 5% or even 15% minoxidil to dissolve in 40-50 ml of ethanol? The solubility of minoxidil is 29mg/ml in ethanol. Unless magnetic stirring and heat make that much of a difference.

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/4201#section=Solubility

A few things. What minoxidil are you using? How much are you putting in? What type of alcohol are you using? Dr. Lee’s Xandrox patent gives very specific instructions about the order or “cooking” the combo. First heat glycerin to 60d. C. Then add pure minoxidil to make a thick white slurry. Stir for 10 mins. Then add Ethanol. Bring temperature down to 40d. C stir constantly. Adjust the PH to about 5.6 with either anhydrous citric acid or phosphoric acid.

Is there a link?

 

[biffcake]

Can somebody explain to me how you would get 5% or even 15% minoxidil to dissolve in 40-50 ml of ethanol? The solubility of minoxidil is 29mg/ml in ethanol. Unless magnetic stirring and heat make that much of a difference.

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/4201#section=Solubility

Tugain 10% minoxidil is also only 40% alcohol according to the manufacturer's site (https://ciplamed.com/content/tugain-solution). The glycerin/propylene glycol helps dissolve some of the minoxidil as well. Heating and the addition of acids must increase the solubility quite a bit since that is the only way I've read about to create a 15% solution.

 

[Kirkland13]

Here's the link to Dr. Richard Lee's patent application: https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/94/30/85/e750217e966305/US20050163811A1.pdf

 

[biffcake]

Here's a picture of the clumping I described. I got this minoxidil powder from TheKaneShop, who I hear are legit, so I don't think the clumping has anything to do with the authenticity of the powder. I followed the instructions in the patent to a tee and still had undissolved minoxidil sitting at the bottom. I even tried heating the glycerin and minoxidil powder to 250 degrees Fahrenheit, which is well beyond what the patent calls for, and still had the same results. This must be happening due to the minoxidil powder not being micronized. Micronized minoxidil is impossible to get unless you own a lab. Seems like replicating Dr.Lee's Xandrox at home is not possible. I will still report back when I can confidently say whether or not the solution I made works.

 

[biffcake]

Thanks for keeping us updated biffcake! And that is a shame about the minoxidil clumping up. You posted earlier that the makers of MinoxidilMax state that the minoxidil being micronized or not doesn't matter. Your experience seems to indicate otherwise. I wonder how they compound their 15% products.

I'm not sure, but the video on how to make Dualgen in my first post has a different vehicle than Dr.Lee's Xandrox. Xandrox is 80% ethanol and 20% glycerin. The video describes a vehicle that is ~40% propylene glycol, 20% water, and ~40% ethanol (I modified this a bit for my solution). Maybe one is able to dissolve non-micronized minoxidil better than the other. However you would think a vehicle that is 80% ethanol would be the better of the two. I did find this post (https://www.gourmetstylewellness.com/interact/threads/dr-lees-12-5-minoxidil.45032/#post-944610) with a quote from Dr. Lee's website that states "...Even though minoxidil is essentially insoluble in water, the addition of water in the formulation of a minoxidil solution helps to stabilize the solution and to preclude precipitation of the minoxidil...". Maybe this explains why the only way I could get the minoxidil to dissolve is by adding water to the vehicle.

 

[Kirkland13]

Really interesting thread here. Thank you all for the updates.

I've actually never dealt with pure minoxidil powder before. Is it crystalline and coarse, i.e. sand - or fine like baby powder? I'm just curious as I'm thinking of taking a stab at replicating the OG Xandrox formula... I opened an RFQ on Alibaba for Minoxidil powder and received over 30 responses (mostly from China) in less than 12 hours. Kinda overwhelming... But now I'm thinking that raw minoxidil powder is not the way to go. Indeed, micronized minoxidil powder is required for a high % ethyl alcohol solution. And that's the key here I think. MinoxidilMax is not wrong by saying that you don't NEED micronized minoxidil to make a 15% minoxidil solution. But that's kinda besides the point. It's all about permeability. And the more ethyl alcohol, the more minoxidil get's absorbed into the scalp. Hence why Dr. Lee's stuff was so potent because it contained the highest % of ethyl alcohol.

I'll open another RFQ (request for quote) on Alibaba. If I can find a seemingly reliable producer that will offer micronized powder, I'll try it. Will let you know if I get anywhere on that front.

 

[biffcake]

Really interesting thread here. Thank you all for the updates.

I've actually never dealt with pure minoxidil powder before. Is it crystalline and coarse, i.e. sand - or fine like baby powder? I'm just curious as I'm thinking of taking a stab at replicating the OG Xandrox formula... I opened an RFQ on Alibaba for Minoxidil powder and received over 30 responses (mostly from China) in less than 12 hours. Kinda overwhelming... But now I'm thinking that raw minoxidil powder is not the way to go. Indeed, micronized minoxidil powder is required for a high % ethyl alcohol solution. And that's the key here I think. MinoxidilMax is not wrong by saying that you don't NEED micronized minoxidil to make a 15% minoxidil solution. But that's kinda besides the point. It's all about permeability. And the more ethyl alcohol, the more minoxidil get's absorbed into the scalp. Hence why Dr. Lee's stuff was so potent because it contained the highest % of ethyl alcohol.

I'll open another RFQ (request for quote) on Alibaba. If I can find a seemingly reliable producer that will offer micronized powder, I'll try it. Will let you know if I get anywhere on that front.

Raw minoxidil powder is crystalline, sort of like sugar, but the crystals are not as big. Dr.Lee's old website states micronized minoxidil has a consistency like talcum powder. From what I've read, standard 5% minoxidil vehicles also are only about 40%-50% ethanol and Tugain 10% minoxidil is also only 40% ethanol. I would guess the vehicle I'm using should have equivalent permeability to the retail solutions due to having the same amount of ethanol, only with more minoxidil being absorbed during the permeation. If I can make something at home that is not as good as Xandrox 15%, but better than 5% and 10% minoxidil, I'll be happy with that.

I couldn't find any seller of micronized minoxidil on Alibaba or Aliexpress. It was all just regular minoxidil powder. The only place I could find that sold micronized minoxidil was this site (https://www.xenexlabs.com/products/chemicals/minoxidil-micronized-powder-usp-25g-api/), but they said they do not sell outside of Canada. I'm not sure where you are from, but if you are in Canada, maybe you could give them a shot. However, they probably will only sell to you if you own a lab and it would probably be really expensive.

 

[Kirkland13]

So I did a bit of late night reading and learned a few valuable bits of information. The long & short of it is that you don't need to buy lab 'micronized' minoxidil to make a high % ethyl alcohol solution. In fact, I believe there's a little confusion about 'micronization' when it comes to all things minoxidil related.

'Micronization' is the technical term used for reducing particle sizes through various means, hence why Dr. Lee included the term in his patent application. However, in practical use for pharmaceutical compounds, actual factory micronization is a very specialized & unique process for reducing particles down to the 2-5 micron range. To put that in perspective, our red blood cells are about 5 microns in diameter. I could go on about this, but essentially putting minoxidil through a factory micronization process would be wayyy overkill. I believe all Dr. Lee was talking about was using refined minoxidil powder. And the good news is that you can easily create this on your own, and cheaply.

Most of the chemical suppliers I reached out to in China don't really deal with specialized 'micronized' orders. Occasionally, they'll offer you a choice of 'mesh' size. This basically means how refined the product is. For minoxidil, most suppliers offer 80 mesh. This seems to be the standard, and is basically the size of granular sugar - too thick for compounding with glycerin. Some will offer 200-300 mesh which is slightly more refined (it's an inverse relationship). Anyways, without going down a mesh size rabbit hole here, essentially you can buy standard 80 mesh and use a simple grinding device to create a refined minoxidil powder for compounding. Something like an electric coffee grinder would be perfect as the blades are much smaller than a standard blender. https://www.amazon.com/KRUPS-Electric-Coffee-Grinder-Stainless/dp/B00004SPEU/

The process could probably be enhanced using a cheap sieve to filter out the larger crystals, but probably wouldn't be necessary. Either way, this wouldn't affect the chemical properties of the minoxidil. The same way water doesn't change at the molecular level changing from ice, to liquid, to gas, grinding down your minoxidil powder wouldn't change its chemical makeup.

@biffcake - I'm not sure how much minoxidil powder you have remaining from your experiments, but if you still have some leftover, I'd be curious to see how this approach suits you.

 

[Kirkland13]

And btw, for whatever's it's worth, I own that model of Krups coffee blender. To test my hypothesis- I took some regular crystallized white cooking sugar and ground it up easily into a super fine powder like confectioners baking sugar. It worked like a charm.

 

[biffcake]

And btw, for whatever's it's worth, I own that model of Krups coffee blender. To test my hypothesis- I took some regular crystallized white cooking sugar and ground it up easily into a super fine powder like confectioners baking sugar. It worked like a charm.

Dr.Lee's old website said he micronizes the minoxidil down to about 25 microns, which is mesh size 550. I doubt a coffee grinder would be able to create particle sizes that small, but it may not be necessary to make the particles that small to get them to dissolve. I don't have anymore minoxidil powder to test this out right now, but it's definitely something I can try later. Was the 300 mesh size minoxidil powder you said you were offered more expensive? It may be better just to buy that if that is a smaller mesh size than a coffee grinder can create. If you can find out the mesh size of the particles your coffee grinder is making, that would be helpful.

 

[Kirkland13]

The 300 mesh size wasn’t more expensive. The Krupa grinder I have doesn’t specify a mesh size, but it does grind stuff into a very fine powder- almost like talcum powder. I suppose one could control the mesh size output by using a sieve.

 

[biffcake]

The 300 mesh size wasn’t more expensive. The Krupa grinder I have doesn’t specify a mesh size, but it does grind stuff into a very fine powder- almost like talcum powder. I suppose one could control the mesh size output by using a sieve.

Can you link me to the supplier of the 300 mesh minoxidil powder? I was doing some research on coffee grind particle sizes and it looks like espresso grind is about 200 microns, which is mesh size 70. I would think that most coffee grinders only grind down to espresso size particles, so I don't think a coffee grinder would do much, if anything, on minoxidil powder since it is already 80 mesh.