long term finasteride use question

[tommyt123]

i hear allot in these forums that blocking 5 alpha reductase is "bad" for you without evidence (in the absence of sides), if there is any could someone point me towards it. i fell as though these broad statements with no actual proof stem from males just associating any interference with a male hormone as a touchy subject and i feel like young people are being diverted away from the only viable long term treatment by people who are basically spewing bro science.
if anyone has any evidence to support that finasteride use is damaging i'd love to see it (im not talking about pfs here i mean in general)

 

[stv227]

This too is my main concern, it seems that there is some inadequacy in every study of Finasteride that I've read. Not to mention it is difficult to sift through what is factual in regards to side effects and what seems to be exaggerated and/or rare cases of permanent, severe side effects.

 

[Molecules]

Been on it for a month, but aside from the increased shedding, I'm most scared of finasteride increasing androgen sensitivity in the long run.

 

[g.i joey]

i think with finasteride it is a very subjective case, which is why we've seen such a huge spectrum of effects on people and still dont have a final answer saying if propecia is dangerous, or its not. IMO i think everyone reacts differently to the reduction in dht and thats why we dont have anything definitive, but i could be completely wrong.

 

[stv227]

i think with finasteride it is a very subjective case, which is why we've seen such a huge spectrum of effects on people and still dont have a final answer saying if propecia is dangerous, or its not. IMO i think everyone reacts differently to the reduction in dht and thats why we dont have anything definitive, but i could be completely wrong.

I think that's a really solid point. Even though I am not scared off by the horror stories and seemingly rare cases of post-finasteride syndrome, the apparent level of variability is what really bothers me. It seems like there are an even number of folks saying they got sides and stopped, had mild success, or completely love that they decided to take the medication.

 

[GoodHurr]

i hear allot in these forums that blocking 5 alpha reductase is "bad" for you without evidence (in the absence of sides), if there is any could someone point me towards it. i fell as though these broad statements with no actual proof stem from males just associating any interference with a male hormone as a touchy subject and i feel like young people are being diverted away from the only viable long term treatment by people who are basically spewing bro science.
if anyone has any evidence to support that finasteride use is damaging i'd love to see it (im not talking about pfs here i mean in general)

I read some horror stories online of guys becoming unable to get an erection from finasteride. I don't think these men are making up claims about not being able to get it up, because that in and of itself is definitely more embarrassing than hair loss.

Honestly I would try to exhaust every natural alternative before going ahead with finasteride.

 

[stv227]

I read some horror stories online of guys becoming unable to get an erection from finasteride. I don't think these men are making up claims about not being able to get it up, because that in and of itself is definitely more embarrassing than hair loss.

Honestly I would try to exhaust every natural alternative before going ahead with finasteride.

Totally agree. I have mild recession at the temples, but the rest of my hair is healthy and thick. I plan to continue to maintain my high level of physical fitness and diet properly. Hopefully recession will be slow and gradual as it has been, and I can contemplate a hair transplant years down the road if need be.

 

[tommyt123]

i'm not doubting that short term side effects exist and i'm not doubting that pfs exist, both these things do happen. What i am saying is that when you say "horror stories online" this is exactley what i mean it's counterproductive to make up your own decisions based on anecdotal evidence online by a subset population that probably worries to much about side effects (i would bet people who worry more and are more likely to experience a nocebo effect are on this forum.) i think everyone should realize that the best way to gauge the level of side effects is through peer review literature and not this forum because you will never get an accurate reflection of how finasteride effects the general population by reading this forum there will always be bias.

What the science currently suggests is that side effects are generally rare 1-3%, finasteride use is strongly associated with the nocebo effect because of its link to a male sex hormone and that pfs probably does exist but it is extremely rare im only aware of one incidence of persitent side effects in 1 person from clinical trials (which researchers presumed was due to a different cause). I am especially aware of this because the first time i took finasteride at 18 i was completely impotent but i was also a nervous wreck from reading propecia help and i wasn't being rational (i have grown up now and i no its hard to accept but clinical trials are objective and the most relistic depiction of fins effects there is no conspiracy here). However this time on finasteride im about 25 days in and not one incidence of a side effect whereas the first time i experienced them within 12 days.

I think it is irresponsible the fear mongering that goes on in this forum and believe the best way to gauge side effects yourself is read peer review trial results if you have access to a uni paper database and be aware that there is risk of permanent effects but the incidence is likely about 1 in 1000-10000 or even less. e.g spencer kobren had a hair transplant surgeon on his show who had never heard of permant effects in the aprox 10000 people he treated and barley ever had reports of people discontinuing treatment due to sides. We are talking about a subset of a subset here.

goodhurr im sorry to say but if you do indeed have androgenic alopecia no level of natural remedies will help you this association of "natural" as inherently good is the first hallmark of psudeo science there is virtually no chance of you saving your hair i'm sorry to say, although general healthy living is good in all cases and might even slow your loss due to reduced body stress levels. But be aware that there is no way you will keep your hair if you have male pattern baldness.

However there is also the risk of effecting mechanisms in the body that are not immediately obvious from side effects profile because it is true that 5 alpha reductase has other effects in the body than just converting t to dht. I'm researching this at the moment and will let you know what i find.

In the end it's your choice no one has a gun to your head and the best option is probably to move on with your life and do nothing if you think you can deal with it. I advice everyone to listen to spencer kobrens show i know it helped me if you're young and confused about hair loss.

 

[stv227]

i'm not doubting that short term side effects exist and i'm not doubting that pfs exist, both these things do happen. What i am saying is that when you say "horror stories online" this is exactley what i mean it's counterproductive to make up your own decisions based on anecdotal evidence online by a subset population that probably worries to much about side effects (i would bet people who worry more and are more likely to experience a nocebo effect are on this forum.) i think everyone should realize that the best way to gauge the level of side effects is through peer review literature and not this forum because you will never get an accurate reflection of how finasteride effects the general population by reading this forum there will always be bias.

What the science currently suggests is that side effects are generally rare 1-3%, finasteride use is strongly associated with the nocebo effect because of its link to a male sex hormone and that pfs probably does exist but it is extremely rare im only aware of one incidence of persitent side effects in 1 person from clinical trials (which researchers presumed was due to a different cause). I am especially aware of this because the first time i took finasteride at 18 i was completely impotent but i was also a nervous wreck from reading propecia help and i wasn't being rational (i have grown up now and i no its hard to accept but clinical trials are objective and the most relistic depiction of fins effects there is no conspiracy here). However this time on finasteride im about 25 days in and not one incidence of a side effect whereas the first time i experienced them within 12 days.

I think it is irresponsible the fear mongering that goes on in this forum and believe the best way to gauge side effects yourself is read peer review trial results if you have access to a uni paper database and be aware that there is risk of permanent effects but the incidence is likely about 1 in 1000-10000 or even less. e.g spencer kobren had a hair transplant surgeon on his show who had never heard of permant effects in the aprox 10000 people he treated and barley ever had reports of people discontinuing treatment due to sides. We are talking about a subset of a subset here.

goodhurr im sorry to say but if you do indeed have androgenic alopecia no level of natural remedies will help you this association of "natural" as inherently good is the first hallmark of psudeo science there is virtually no chance of you saving your hair i'm sorry to say, although general healthy living is good in all cases and might even slow your loss due to reduced body stress levels. But be aware that there is no way you will keep your hair if you have male pattern baldness.

However there is also the risk of effecting mechanisms in the body that are not immediately obvious from side effects profile because it is true that 5 alpha reductase has other effects in the body than just converting t to dht. I'm researching this at the moment and will let you know what i find.

In the end it's your choice no one has a gun to your head and the best option is probably to move on with your life and do nothing if you think you can deal with it. I advice everyone to listen to spencer kobrens show i know it helped me if you're young and confused about hair loss.

Well said.

 

[jorgedudicoff]

i'm not doubting that short term side effects exist and i'm not doubting that pfs exist, both these things do happen. What i am saying is that when you say "horror stories online" this is exactley what i mean it's counterproductive to make up your own decisions based on anecdotal evidence online by a subset population that probably worries to much about side effects (i would bet people who worry more and are more likely to experience a nocebo effect are on this forum.) i think everyone should realize that the best way to gauge the level of side effects is through peer review literature and not this forum because you will never get an accurate reflection of how finasteride effects the general population by reading this forum there will always be bias.

What the science currently suggests is that side effects are generally rare 1-3%, finasteride use is strongly associated with the nocebo effect because of its link to a male sex hormone and that pfs probably does exist but it is extremely rare im only aware of one incidence of persitent side effects in 1 person from clinical trials (which researchers presumed was due to a different cause). I am especially aware of this because the first time i took finasteride at 18 i was completely impotent but i was also a nervous wreck from reading propecia help and i wasn't being rational (i have grown up now and i no its hard to accept but clinical trials are objective and the most relistic depiction of fins effects there is no conspiracy here). However this time on finasteride im about 25 days in and not one incidence of a side effect whereas the first time i experienced them within 12 days.

I think it is irresponsible the fear mongering that goes on in this forum and believe the best way to gauge side effects yourself is read peer review trial results if you have access to a uni paper database and be aware that there is risk of permanent effects but the incidence is likely about 1 in 1000-10000 or even less. e.g spencer kobren had a hair transplant surgeon on his show who had never heard of permant effects in the aprox 10000 people he treated and barley ever had reports of people discontinuing treatment due to sides. We are talking about a subset of a subset here.

goodhurr im sorry to say but if you do indeed have androgenic alopecia no level of natural remedies will help you this association of "natural" as inherently good is the first hallmark of psudeo science there is virtually no chance of you saving your hair i'm sorry to say, although general healthy living is good in all cases and might even slow your loss due to reduced body stress levels. But be aware that there is no way you will keep your hair if you have male pattern baldness.

However there is also the risk of effecting mechanisms in the body that are not immediately obvious from side effects profile because it is true that 5 alpha reductase has other effects in the body than just converting t to dht. I'm researching this at the moment and will let you know what i find.

In the end it's your choice no one has a gun to your head and the best option is probably to move on with your life and do nothing if you think you can deal with it. I advice everyone to listen to spencer kobrens show i know it helped me if you're young and confused about hair loss.

Thanks for this, do you have any episodes by this Spencer Kobren that you find particularly helpful?

 

[tommyt123]

this is very true, i'm in the field of science and recognize these inherent risks but have yet to look fully into the literature, if you could could you link me the papers you are referring to? The same can be said about 1000s of medications though yet millions still take them (ie the pill or adhd medications), in my understanding if a mediacation has a moderate probability of causing some sort of disorder through any kind of mechanism (even if we can't directly observe it or measure it's effect) pharma companies would be especially careful, at least that's my reasoning.

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also im not discrediting that sort of reasoning i think you have a very practical and legitimate outlook on the decision behind taking the medication, you are not a fear mongerer in anyway, im refering to others that i outlined in my previous post. I would love if we had more reasonable discussions on this forum.

You are right though the best first strategy is not to take the medication in the first place.

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Thanks for this, do you have any episodes by this Spencer Kobren that you find particularly helpful?

hey man i'm not exactly sure i guess just watch the ones where it explicitly mentions propecia/finasteride in the description of the video on his website.

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Been on it for a month, but aside from the increased shedding, I'm most scared of finasteride increasing androgen sensitivity in the long run.

can you clue me in molecules about androgen sensitivity

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just to update as well ive been on finasteride for over a month now and there is no immediate side effects that im aware of besides potentially less ejaculate volume.

 

[Illu2ion]

can you clue me in molecules about androgen sensitivity

I don't know the exact science behind it, nor do I have enough interest in this subject to gain said knowledge (there probably is little info about it anyway, not that many studies have been done I guess).

But it all comes down to something like this, because ultimately your DHT levels go down because of finasteride, some people think/fear the receptors which DHT binds to get more sensitive as a mechanism to compensate for the now decreased amount of DHT that bind to the receptors. Different kind of receptors in the human body work like this IIRC

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.