Merck lists "DEPRESSION" as possible Propecia side effect

[Mew]

Thought this might be of interest to anyone on or considering Finasteride, or who is feeling depressed/cloudy/brain fogged while on the drug.

----

December 2010 - Merck USA adds DEPRESSION as a reported post-marketing side effect from Propecia (Finasteride) use:

http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_cir ... ia_ppi.pdf

Pg. 2 - What are the possible side effects of PROPECIA?

"In general use, the following have been reported: breast tenderness and enlargement; depression; allergic reactions including rash, itching, hives and swelling of the lips and face; problems with ejaculation; testicular pain; and, in rare cases, male breast cancer. You should promptly report to your doctor any changes in your breasts such as lumps, pain or nipple discharge. Tell your doctor promptly about these or any other unusual side effects."

http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_cir ... cia_pi.pdf

Pg. 10 - Postmarketing Experience for PROPECIA (finasteride 1 mg)

"Breast tenderness and enlargement; depression; hypersensitivity reactions including rash, pruritus, urticaria, and swelling of the lips and face; testicular pain; and male breast cancer. Because these reactions are reported voluntarily from a population of uncertain size, it is not always possible to reliably estimate the frequency or establish a causal relationship to drug exposure."

 

[TheGrayMan2001]

It sure is great not suffering from any sort of brain fog.

 

[DoctorHouse]

If you think logically, a person who is balding could be depressed already from his situation before he even takes the medication or becomes depressed (or significantly MORE depressed than pre-Propecia) after taking the medication simply because he continues to go bald WITH the medication. I would be very interested to know the Norwood level of those who become depressed and if there are other things in their life that are not going as well as they planned. I am not denying that some people can develop depression from Propecia but there are so many other possible factors that can cause depression that you cannot be 100% sure its just from Propecia. They reported the same side effect with Accutane. Most people with acne can develop depression due to having bad acne. Depression is so common today that it would be easy to blame anything you ingest can POSSIBLY cause depression. Most of the time depression is a reaction to failures going on in your life that may stem back to your childhood. The fact that Propecia has failed to help me keep all of my hair was depressing for me. But then again, I have to face the fact that Propecia is not a cure but a "life sentence" drug that could slow things down.

 

[TheGrayMan2001]

If you think logically, a person who is balding could be depressed already from his situation before he even takes the medication or becomes depressed (or significantly MORE depressed than pre-Propecia) after taking the medication simply because he continues to go bald WITH the medication. I would be very interested to know the Norwood level of those who become depressed and if there are other things in their life that are not going as well as they planned. I am not denying that some people can develop depression from Propecia but there are so many other possible factors that can cause depression that you cannot be 100% sure its just from Propecia. They reported the same side effect with Accutane. Most people with acne can develop depression due to having bad acne. Depression is so common today that it would be easy to blame anything you ingest can POSSIBLY cause depression. Most of the time depression is a reaction to failures going on in your life that may stem back to your childhood. The fact that Propecia has failed to help me keep all of my hair was depressing for me. But then again, I have to face the fact that Propecia is not a cure but a "life sentence" drug that could slow things down.

I also noticed Mew is quick to dismiss the most important part of the report:

Because these reactions are reported voluntarily from a population of uncertain size, it is not always possible to reliably estimate the frequency or establish a causal relationship to drug exposure."

 

[Mew]

I also noticed Mew is quick to dismiss the most important part of the report:

If I was "quick to dismiss the most important part of the report", I wouldn't have included it in the first place, now would I?

But here's the answer to that question, from a thread on a different site. If you prefer to bury your head in the sand so you can sleep better at night, despite knowing such info about Finasteride's mechanisms of action, that's your perogative.


-----

"The depression/brain fog is a result of the drug's inhibition of 5AR-derived neurosteroid synthesis, and resultant effects on GABA-A receptors/GABAergic system in the brain. This has been documented in MANY published scientific articles and discussed here many times before.

Finasteride inhibits THDOC (low levels = anxiety) and Allopregnanolone (low levels = depression, mood disorders) amongst other pathways.


The influence of low dose finasteride, a type II 5?-reductase inhibitor, on circulating neuroactive steroids

http://www.reference-global.com/doi/abs ... I.2010.010

The decrease of 5a-reduced steroids, especially of allopregnanediol, dihydrotestosterone, and pregnenolone, is probably one of the factors responsible for the increased occurrence of depression in men treated with finasteride, even at low doses.

---

Emerging Roles for Neurosteroids in Sexual Behavior and Function

http://www.andrologyjournal.org/cgi/con ... l/29/5/524

"Notably, preliminary studies indicate that, as in the rodent, finasteride may increase depression in men as a result of the loss of allopregnanolone (eg, Altomare et al, 2002; Rahimi-Ardabili et al, 2006). "

---

Finasteride treatment inhibits adult hippocampal neurogenesis in male mice
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20486040

The 5-alpha-reductase inhibitor finasteride is used for the treatment of androgenic alopecia, benign prostate hyperplasia and prostate cancer. Besides inhibiting the conversion of testosterone to the biologically more active 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone, it also inhibits the production of neurosteroids. Decreased neurosteroid levels are postulated to be involved in the pathophysiology of psychiatric disorders such as depression.

... These data indicate that inhibition of 5-alpha-reductase activity by finasteride treatment influences neuronal plasticity on a structural level. These changes might contribute to the pathophysiology of depressive episodes observed after finasteride treatment.

----

Finasteride-induced depression: new insights into possible pathomechanisms
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... x/abstract

Several 5-alpha-reduced steroids such as dihydrotestosterone, allopregnanolone or tetrahydrocorticosterone have neurotrophic, neuroprotective, and anxiolytic properties. Reduced 5-alpha-reductase activity has been observed during depressive illness in humans.

Finasteride inhibits 5-alpha-reductase and can robustly induce anxious and depressive behaviors in rodents. In humans finasteride treatment has been linked to an increase of depressive symptoms.

---

"Bottom Line: Finasteride is documented to inhibit neurosteroid synthesis and affect GABAergic function in the brain. Depression is a possible outcome of this mechanism of action, as has now been noted by Merck themselves as a reported side effect in post-marketing use.

You can choose to dismiss this info if you want, but it doesn't change the fact it is true."

 

[Primo]

It's very common knowledge that DHT not only plays an important role in erections but also in the Central Nervous System.

Given this fact, it makes perfectly logical sense that certain sensitive individuals could suffer depression/reduced mental ability on Finasteride.

I really wish people (especially finasteride users) would stop casually dismissing this point on gourmetstylewellness.com and flaming anyone who suggests it. It's simple science!

 

[HT55]

Have you ever stopped for a minute and thought that maybe all of this research you do finding out POSSIBLE ways Propecia can have bad efffects on the human body is part of the reason you have these side effects ?


I mean all you do is research this drug looking at it's POSSIBLE harmfull effects, filling your brain up with thoughts of how bad this drug is for you.


Hair loss causes depression plain and simple

 

[Ende]

If excessive amounts of androgens causes euphoria, androgen deprivation sure as hell may induce depression. I know how it feels like. A shipment with steroids got seized by customs earlier this year, and I didn't get the shots I needed...

Depression is a well know symptom of andropause.

 

[HT55]

If excessive amounts of androgens causes euphoria, androgen deprivation sure as hell may induce depression. I know how it feels like. A shipment with steroids got seized by customs earlier this year, and I didn't get the shots I needed...

Depression is a well know symptom of andropause.

Have the cops knocked on your door yet, when they do you'll really find out what depression feels like. Good luck and I hope they don't make an example out of you like thya have to so many others even for personal use

 

[Ende]

Hehe. No razzia, but I was brought in for interrogation. Citizens in my country are allowed to keep 4000 mg steroids for personal use, without breaking the law. I imported them, which is illegal.

Btw, I didn't accept the fine, so I may face a trial.

 

[HT55]

Hehe. No razzia, but I was brought in for interrogation. Citizens in my country are allowed to keep 4000 mg steroids for personal use, without breaking the law. I imported them, which is illegal.

Btw, I didn't accept the fine, so I may face a trial.

OK, I guess you are not in the U.S

 

[Ende]

No, I'm not. Norway

 

[Mew]

Low DHT couple with high E2 causes depression, bottom line!

While that may contribute, overwhelmingly it is Finasteride's documented neurosteroid inhibition of Allopregnanolone and effects on the GABAergic system in the brain which is the cause.

viewtopic.php?p=593293#p593293

 

[Ende]

While that may contribute, overwhelmingly it is Finasteride's documented neurosteroid inhibition of Allopregnanolone and effects on the GABAergic system in the brain which is the cause.

In my experience, depression comes from reduced androgen levels. I'm certainly open to what you're suggesting, but estrogen dominance is a well known source for depression. I asked you a long time ago, when you began talking about this, if you could clarify something; what I've read, claims that those neurohormones you were talking about, are made by 5AR Type 1, and not 2 - which finasteride inhibits. You presented an experiment, which showed a progressive reduction in those neurohormones a long with DHT, while treating with finasteride. I know, from personal experience, that androgens has a lot to do with your brain function, and my suggestion was that by reducing DHT with finasteride, those neurohormones were reduced as a natural response to low DHT level.

 

[barcafan]

Thanks MEW for keeping us updated. This is good science and you can't argue with the references he provided.

Listen I understand you guys who would like to dissmiss these claims out of fear, I used to do it myself. But after taking finasteride for two years I can tell you that the side effects are real and a much higher incidence of side effects occur than the 2% figure that Merk provides.

With that being said losing my hair is still such a horrific option to me that I'm considering starting finasteride back up! Balding sucks! But what sucks even more is the lack of viable options we have to treat are hairloss!

Either way we need to be able to share data about the drug with one another that is more comprahensive than the data that Merk provides in their leaflet. This is more valuable than any other function of this forum-the sharing of information reguarding use of the chemicals we ingest or consider.

There are many credible doctors who dismiss these claims and mislead people about the true nature of 5AR inhibition. They do this out of ignorance because most doctors only know as much about a given drug as the FDA tells them-from clinical trials. The problem is the FDA makes mistakes. They typically only evaluate a drug for 1-2 years, many drugs take longer for side effects to manifest. Imagine if they conducted clinical trials on the safety of ciggaretts for only 1-2 years; they wouldn't conclude that ciggaretts cause lung cancer of emphysema because these conditions take longer to develop. It took the FDA over 30 years to discover that Darvocet causes fatal heart arythmias they just pulled darvocet from the market last month, after claiming it was safe for over 30 years!

Holy sh*t i cannot believe you just posted that. I remember getting into many squabbles with you over this very subject. If you're serious about running into problems, then i do hope you recover bro, i think a lesson was learned not to dismiss people as nutso when these problems are very real and many suffer from them. Best wishes for a full recovery

I'm considering starting finasteride back up!

DONT

 

[barcafan]

Have you ever stopped for a minute and thought that maybe all of this research you do finding out POSSIBLE ways Propecia can have bad efffects on the human body is part of the reason you have these side effects ?


I mean all you do is research this drug looking at it's POSSIBLE harmfull effects, filling your brain up with thoughts of how bad this drug is for you.


Hair loss causes depression plain and simple

Hmmmm, you dont think people got these side effects and THEN Started researching? is that not more logical?

 

[Ende]

I hear you about not starting the drug back up but I don't know what else I can do to keep my hair, I actually got worse side effects from minoxidil...

Do some research on RU58841. It's an interesting compound. I've just done my first application, and so far, so good. I'm going to do some real efficiency testing, and have doubled my weekly dose of testosterone.

 

[Ende]

The dude is only using RU as far as I know. It's expensive, yes. I'm using 50 mg a day. I'm not going to use anymore than that. I intend to reduce the dose to find the smallest effective dose if it works. Systemic absorption means overdose or bad handling, so it should be easy to avoid.

It's an anti-androgenic compound, and they all do the same. I'm never, and I mean NEVER going to trust doctors and authorities again, regarding safeness of drugs, after my experience with Propecia.

Theoretically, large amounts of zinc along with finasteride should work. Excessive estrogen is the problem, but you need some DHT for maintenance. The problem is that excessive estrogen makes you DHT deficient. You've to try and see what works for you. We don't have much information on it yet, since people are reluctant to try. See some of the references in my thread. One is using the combination with success, another had success for a while, before it went downhill again. You may have to use more than 50 mg a day, and make sure it's picolinate.

Btw, are you overweight? Excessive fat increases the aromatase activity. I wasn't able to maintain the optimum testosterone/estrogen ratio for more than a couple of days because of DHT deficiency, and I had a lot more tools than zinc. If you're lean, I would consider it, but remember that it involves a risk of developing secondary hypogonadism, nevertheless. Monty cycled dutasteride. He didn't use an AI, and it worked for a while, but last time he went off, he got screwed.

 

[Primo]

Just for the record guys, RU is not exactly a safe option either.

Even El dutasteride reported suffering side effects from it, though not as severe as Finasteride. It was discussed a length on another forum with a number of other RU users who experienced the same problem.

 

[Ende]

People have reported headache with less than 50 mg a day, which indicates systemic absorption. Sexual side effects comes with the high dosages. El dutasteride is using 80 mg a day without any side effects, and last time I checked, RU was the only drug he used. He has been using a lot of drugs, but he claims to maintain his hair with only 80 mg RU a day. The fact that even dutasteride failed to maintain his hair, makes it impressive.