question about absorbtion rate of topical min versus oral

[LouisSarkozy]

hi ,

i'm sorry to bother you but i have a question that i have tried to get an answer for years but no Doctor in my country were able to o answer me properly and i needed your expert opinion on that subject.


my question is a bit technical and is about the rate of absorption of topical vs oral

- indeed, if you're a good responder to topical do you get more minoxidil in your bloodstream by using 5 mg of oral min or using 12 ml of topical 5% per day ?

that's the dosage i'm using currently i'm applying 6 ml in the morning and 6 ml at night right before to go to bed so i get more than the required 4 hours that allows 75% of the dose to be absorbed properly and i'm appllying it all over my entire scalp ( hairline / crown / midscalp / donor zone / sides of the head) so there is no saturation or buildup of minoxidil in only one area of the scalp that would cause saturation and prevent the minoxidil from going systemic ( i'm trying to get the most systemic absorption possible to compare if my theory is true or not) .

i do apply such massive dosage with no health related sides whatsoever an i don't mind doing so)


Now , according to studies and the original rogaine data sheet Systemic absorption of minoxidil from topically applied solution ranges between 1% and 2% of the total applied dose

so let's say

ay i'm an hyper responder to topical min ( which i definitely am) and i get 2% of the applied dose :

the standard version with propylene glycol and ethanol of the topical 5 % minoxidil contains 50 mg of minoxidil per ml so if absorb in the bloodstream 2% of 50mg of minoxidil each time i apply 1 ml of topical minoxidil i get 1 MG of minoxidil going systemic ( 2% of 50 mg equal 1 mg if my calculs is correct)

now because i apply 12 ml of 5 % per day i get 12X this dose so according to those studies i should get 12 mg of minoxidil going in the bloostream just by using the topical which is superior in theory to using the 5mg pills orally so i'm really confused .

or maybe it works in a totally different way and using and 5 mg is superior and goes more systemic than even using 1000ml of topical per day i hav no idea .

i also found that graph ( linked file below) on dr donovan blog extracted from a previous study on minoxdil rate of absorption in the bloodstream and it shows most ppl only get a concentrations under 2ng/ml of minoxidil in the blood after using 1ml of topical min daily whereas using 5 mg you get a concentration of 156.6 ng /ml .
HOWEVER acording to that quote from the study top tier reponder to topical min 5 % ( which i am definitely ) gets up to 21ng/ml in the bloodtream by using only 1 ml of 5% topical so i imagine that someone like me using 12 ml daily is actually gettin up to 252ng/ml which is far superior to the 156.6ng/ml that using 5 mg of ORAL min gives and in that case topical seems to be superior than oral?

i really need your help to figure out.

the quote from the study :
"However, some patients using topical minoxidil occassionally do acheive much higher levels or minoxidil in the blood - even levels up to 21 ng/mL.- See more at: https://donovanmedical.com/hair-blog/oral-minoxidil-top-10#sthash.jT5vM4dj.dpuf

 

[jamesbooker1975]

Minoxidil is not active, must be convert it , into the body, to Minoxidil sulphate by a sulphatase . That is why tretinoin is use it. Oral minoxidil is a none sense. Use it topically is the way to go. Secondly, if you use it orally, you can't compare that way neither , cause you don't actually know how much it will reach the follicles .

 

[LouisSarkozy]

Minoxidil is not active, must be convert it , into the body, to Minoxidil sulphate by a sulphatase . That is why tretinoin is use it. Oral minoxidil is a none sense. Use it topically is the way to go. Secondly, if you use it orally, you can't compare that way neither , cause you don't actually know how much it will reach the follicles .

thanks for our answer but i'm even more lost . why does trichologist in spain keeps promoting it like it's the holy grail for hairloss then? heve you seeen dr vano resuts?

 

[spring15]

Take oral minoxidil yourself & find out, our very own Grim had amazing results

 

[BigPapaYoMama]

Minoxidil is not active, must be convert it , into the body, to Minoxidil sulphate by a sulphatase . That is why tretinoin is use it. Oral minoxidil is a none sense. Use it topically is the way to go. Secondly, if you use it orally, you can't compare that way neither , cause you don't actually know how much it will reach the follicles .

Oral minoxidil definitely isn’t nonsense, what the f*** are you talking about? In most situations it’s more effective than topical minoxidil, and has fewer non responders. 2.5mg daily is the sweet spot, for efficacy and sides.

 

[dm900]

Topical systemic absorption isn’t the same as orally ingested doses due to first pass effect, typically bypassing the liver during first pass caused more potent response unless that drug is a prodrug activated by the liver. Sult1a1 is the enzyme responsible and it exists primarily in the liver and in some lucky champs the hair follicles. But not it’s not absolute nonsense it makes good sense but I still wouldn’t take it due to my age potential risks

 

[LouisSarkozy]

Topical systemic absorption isn’t the same as orally ingested doses due to first pass effect, typically bypassing the liver during first pass caused more potent response unless that drug is a prodrug activated by the liver. Sult1a1 is the enzyme responsible and it exists primarily in the liver and in some lucky champs the hair follicles. But not it’s not absolute nonsense it makes good sense but I still wouldn’t take it due to my age potential risks

thanks for your answer so if someone got the enzyme in his hair follicle woul topical still be more powerfull than oral for him?

 

[jamesbooker1975]

Oral minoxidil definitely isn’t nonsense, what the f*** are you talking about? In most situations it’s more effective than topical minoxidil, and has fewer non responders. 2.5mg daily is the sweet spot, for efficacy and sides.

Dude, Oral minoxidil is a drugs that have 40 years !!!!!!!!!! It actually was know that it works orally and they went for the topical version. If you want to get more for your minoxidil is simple use tretinoin !!!!!!!!!!!! Read f*****g pubmed study from 2019 ! f*****g ignorant

 

[jamesbooker1975]

Topical systemic absorption isn’t the same as orally ingested doses due to first pass effect, typically bypassing the liver during first pass caused more potent response unless that drug is a prodrug activated by the liver. Sult1a1 is the enzyme responsible and it exists primarily in the liver and in some lucky champs the hair follicles. But not it’s not absolute nonsense it makes good sense but I still wouldn’t take it due to my age potential risks

Hahahahahaha. False :
Tretinoin enhances minoxidil response in androgenetic alopecia patients by upregulating follicular sulfotransferase enzymes
All the subject that where not responding to minoxidil alone, they tested that they sulfotransferase where low, then they add tretinoin, they started to respond and tested again. Guess what ? their sulfotransferase were up again. See why use it orally it is a none sense ? Besides, how many study are done in this more than 40 years comparing oral to topical minoxidil in a double group place ? not even one !

 

[LouisSarkozy]

Hahahahahaha. False :
Tretinoin enhances minoxidil response in androgenetic alopecia patients by upregulating follicular sulfotransferase enzymes
All the subject that where not responding to minoxidil alone, they tested that they sulfotransferase where low, then they add tretinoin, they started to respond and tested again. Guess what ? their sulfotransferase were up again. See why use it orally it is a none sense ? Besides, how many study are done in this more than 40 years comparing oral to topical minoxidil in a double group place ? not even one !

man i litteraly had a phone consultation with dr oscar munoz the guy who owns the youtube cannel escuela dealopecia and who conducted the 1400+ ppl study on oral min with dr vano and they tried to push oral min like it's the holy grail for hairloss do you have any idea why then? thanks i'm lost tbh

 

[BigPapaYoMama]

Dude, Oral minoxidil is a drugs that have 40 years !!!!!!!!!! It actually was know that it works orally and they went for the topical version. If you want to get more for your minoxidil is simple use tretinoin !!!!!!!!!!!! Read f*****g pubmed study from 2019 ! f*****g ignorant

Haha sure bud. I've tried both and I know which is better. Oral is more convenient and more effective. Enjoy your continued sh*t hair with your sh*t regimen, while I'm an NW0.

 

[BigPapaYoMama]

man i litteraly had a phone consultation with dr oscar munoz the guy who owns the youtube cannel escuela dealopecia and who conducted the 1400+ ppl study on oral min with dr vano and they tried to push oral min like it's the holy grail for hairloss do you have any idea why then? thanks i'm lost tbh

James booker doesnt know what he's talking about. Get the oral min dude.

 

[jamesbooker1975]

man i litteraly had a phone consultation with dr oscar munoz the guy who owns the youtube cannel escuela dealopecia and who conducted the 1400+ ppl study on oral min with dr vano and they tried to push oral min like it's the holy grail for hairloss do you have any idea why then? thanks i'm lost tbh

Hahahahahahahahahaha. YEs, Sure, the guy have Youtube Chanel ! Sure, much more important that scientific that test it in vivo !!!!! make public in a scientific magazine and it is publish on pubmed !!!!!!Hahahahahahahaha

 

[jamesbooker1975]

James booker doesnt know what he's talking about. Get the oral min dude.

Wow, what strong argument. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. I post an STUDY done in vivo . What did you post ? a youtube chanel from a doctor that want to make money selling a 40 years old drug like " Wow , a miracle new discovery " . Poor bastard.

 

[jamesbooker1975]

man i litteraly had a phone consultation with dr oscar munoz the guy who owns the youtube cannel escuela dealopecia and who conducted the 1400+ ppl study on oral min with dr vano and they tried to push oral min like it's the holy grail for hairloss do you have any idea why then? thanks i'm lost tbh

Where are the studies ? double blind placebo please ? At least he confront it to topical minoxidil, right ? And of course , he didn't charge you anything, right ? he did it for free ? Lol .

 

[jamesbooker1975]

Haha sure bud. I've tried both and I know which is better. Oral is more convenient and more effective. Enjoy your continued sh*t hair with your sh*t regimen, while I'm an NW0.

" while I'm an NW0. " See how stupid you are ? NW0 don't exist on the norwood scale . Cause it is not Androgenetic Alopecia a Norwood 0 .
With or without hair, you are simple an ignorant stupid. What it is even worst, you are advicing people what they should take like you was a Doctor.

 

[jamesbooker1975]

Haha sure bud. I've tried both and I know which is better. Oral is more convenient and more effective. Enjoy your continued sh*t hair with your sh*t regimen, while I'm an NW0.

Sure, make a systemic drug where you only wanted in your follicles is more convenient . How can you be such ignorant ? I mean, you know you are an idiot ? you are the kind of idiot that think that is intelligent ? the dangerous one.

 

[LouisSarkozy]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33639244/ i'm not trying to attack you or anything man i'm just tired and trying to figure out what best

 

[Moz5x]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33639244/ i'm not trying to attack you or anything man i'm just tired and trying to figure out what best

What is the purpose of targeting for a specific blood concentration?

I think you should first worry more about if/whether your hair actually responds to oral min and if you can tolerate the side effects. You have to try it and evaluate after 6-9 months to really know for sure and then titrate from there.

The recent studies like the one you mentioned are not perfect by any means, however they do show that low dose oral min is reasonably tolerated by most people at 5mg or less and produces measurable improvements in hair counts and diameter. It is possible you’d get the same type of results with topical plus tretinoin but no one knows for sure since that comparison hasn’t been officially conducted yet.

Oral min is not a miracle drug and there is risk in taking it. That being said, based on all the research I do think at low doses it is effective and most likely safe over the long term especially considering the track record of the doctors in Thailand/Australia who have been prescribing it for years.

Also if you don’t like how you react to oral min then you can always fall back on using topical plus tretinoin since you are a hyper responder.

 

[LouisSarkozy]

hypertrichosis of eyebrow and eyelashes mainly and i want to keep those long terms without f*****g my heart up

What is the purpose of targeting for a specific blood concentration?

I think you should first worry more about if/whether your hair actually responds to oral min and if you can tolerate the side effects. You have to try it and evaluate after 6-9 months to really know for sure and then titrate from there.

The recent studies like the one you mentioned are not perfect by any means, however they do show that low dose oral min is reasonably tolerated by most people at 5mg or less and produces measurable improvements in hair counts and diameter. It is possible you’d get the same type of results with topical plus tretinoin but no one knows for sure since that comparison hasn’t been officially conducted yet.

Oral min is not a miracle drug and there is risk in taking it. That being said, based on all the research I do think at low doses it is effective and most likely safe over the long term especially considering the track record of the doctors in Thailand/Australia who have been prescribing it for years.

Also if you don’t like how you react to oral min then you can always fall back on using topical plus tretinoin since you are a hyper responder.

hypertrichosis of eyebrow andeyelashes mainly morethan scalp hair results and i want to find a way to keep it till i die without f*****g my hert up