Questions About Long Term Minoxidil Use

[ema2iur]

Hello. I have some questions about minoxidil that I would appreciate some insight on (I just started treating hairloss and I am already on 1.25 mg of finasteride per day).

1. Is there such a thing as your hair becoming minoxidil-dependent? If you take minoxidil but then stop taking it, will your hair return to where it used to be, or will/can balding be accelerated possibly?

2. Related to that question, can minoxidil actually damage your hair to set you further back then you were previous to minoxidil? I keep seeing that it only works for around 30-45% of men, so for the other 50%, would minoxidil have a null effect on them or could it actually cause negative effects?

3. Again related to the hair possibly becoming minoxidil-dependent, does the body acclimate to minoxidil over time and will minoxidil start to lose its effectiveness? Possibly some sort of desensitization of receptors from long-term exposure. I ask this because I think I remember seeing one of the really good success stories using the Big 3, but after about 4 years I think the individual started thinning between the crown and forelock. If I use minoxidil with the finasteride that I am on I know that this gives me a solid shot at combating hairloss long term (if they work for me that is), but I am just wondering from people who have been using minoxidil long term does it eventually lose its magic? Just curious as to whether this is a losing battle in the long run where genetics and male pattern baldness will ultimately be the winner, or could I hope/expect to maintain indefinitely (as long as it works for me to begin with)? If you have been using minoxidil long term, how long have you been using it with ongoing positive results?

4. I have a receded hairline with thinning up top that has noticeably accelerated in the last year. I can still see these miniature hairs on my temples. Is minoxidil applied to these hairs my best bet at possibly resurrecting them? Any other advice for this temple area other than minoxidil for regrowth? dermarolling?

Any feedback would be appreciated.

 

[transam]

1) You need an AA (finasteride or dutasteride)
2) minoxidil is meant for those who want to see results quickly (Be warned. Once you start, you're on it for LIFE)
3) minoxidil & an AA used together will give you maximum results
4) In terms of Temples & Hairline; you'd have to catch male pattern baldness early to reverse it with the meds mentioned above....otherwise, you'll have to use 'E'

Happy Hair Journey!

 

[ema2iur]

4) In terms of Temples & Hairline; you'd have to catch male pattern baldness early to reverse it with the meds mentioned above....otherwise, you'll have to use 'E'

What's 'E'?

 

[ema2iur]

Estrogen.

Is there any topical E that works? Does spironolactone cream contain any of the estrogens? Or was this sarcasm and the only way to take E is systemically during HRT and gender transitioning? I looked at transam regimen and noticed you were taking estradiol daily, which shocked me, before your username registered

Besides this, both of you take 5% minoxidil. How long have you taken it, what results did it produce for you, and have you experienced the sheds and what were they like?

Solution or foam the way to go? If I can tolerate solution I heard it's more effective, but because it takes a bit to dry people recommend foam in morning and solution at night. Is that the way to go?

 

[transam]

Is there any topical E that works? Does spironolactone cream contain any of the estrogens? Or was this sarcasm and the only way to take E is systemically during HRT and gender transitioning? I looked at transam regimen and noticed you were taking estradiol daily, which shocked me, before your username registered

Besides this, both of you take 5% minoxidil. How long have you taken it, what results did it produce for you, and have you experienced the sheds and what were they like?

Solution or foam the way to go? If I can tolerate solution I heard it's more effective, but because it takes a bit to dry people recommend foam in morning and solution at night. Is that the way to go?

So, I'm not a transgender. Everyone thinks that because of my name

However, I'm willing to endure the sides of taking estrogen to get my hair back. Being bald at a young age is traumatizing
Also, spironolactone cream is decent in terms of regrowth. AND I MEAN DECENT. There's not enough estrogen in the cream to regrow a hairline or temples.

Finally, I'm only using 5% minoxidil Rogaine. It's working a little bit.
I used Rogaine back in 2006-2007 when my hairloss first started & it worked amazing. I regrew all of my hair.
But then I stopped, & tried to resume using it again in 2014. The effectiveness is gone. It works, but barely.

Like my Regimen says; I want to use 15% minoxidil because I think that would give me the little edge I need to get amazing results.
BUT, I'm scared. It seems like a majority of 15% minoxidil is snake oil. I NEED to know where I can find legit 15% minoxidil.
Anty (another user on this site) recommended Polaris Labs minoxidil.
Statchu (another user on this site) recommended Polaris Labs as well.
It has 16% minoxidil. I ordered it. But I'm scared to commit to it...What if it's snake oil?

 

[ema2iur]

So, I'm not a transgender. Everyone thinks that because of my name

However, I'm willing to endure the sides of taking estrogen to get my hair back. Being bald at a young age is traumatizing
Also, spironolactone cream is decent in terms of regrowth. AND I MEAN DECENT. There's not enough estrogen in the cream to regrow a hairline or temples.

Finally, I'm only using 5% minoxidil Rogaine. It's working a little bit.
I used Rogaine back in 2006-2007 when my hairloss first started & it worked amazing. I regrew all of my hair.
But then I stopped, & tried to resume using it again in 2014. The effectiveness is gone. It works, but barely.

Like my Regimen says; I want to use 15% minoxidil because I think that would give me the little edge I need to get amazing results.
BUT, I'm scared. It seems like a majority of 15% minoxidil is snake oil. I NEED to know where I can find legit 15% minoxidil.
Anty (another user on this site) recommended Polaris Labs minoxidil.
Statchu (another user on this site) recommended Polaris Labs as well.
It has 16% minoxidil. I ordered it. But I'm scared to commit to it...What if it's snake oil?

Oh man lol that was a total overstatement on my part with the name. I just made the connection between taking estradiol and the name. Does your name refer to the car, or something completely different?

So I guess the logical question to ask then is how has the estradiol worked for you and have you experienced any possible feminizing effects? It's strange that I would categorically reject anything to do with estrogens to fight male pattern baldness, yet men do have estrogens in their body naturally. I am assuming that we don't have much, and sides I believe has something partly do with imbalance between DHT and estrogen in the body, yet men are so quick to take AA that will cause some imbalance in hormones anyways. Maybe in some ways it's some crude association of androgens = mainly men (and fight those), while estrogens = mainly women (and stay away from those). I'm sure someone more knowledgeable on this forum could explain why, but the definite knee-jerk reaction is to stay away from E.

Thanks for the responses GUYS. I think I'll get on the 5% minoxidil soon. mert can do you use Rogaine brand? Kirkland? Any other? Some of these growth stimulants can be expensive. I'm in Canada wondering what's the cheapest way for me to buy. I checked online through Amazon, ebay, paylesscenter, some other websites. On the American Amazon.COM the price is decent, but I don't think they'll ship across the border due to it being a dangerous and flammable product (the foam at least, can't remember about the solution).

 

[GoldenMane]

I would think that spironolactone would be far more likely to cause androgen receptor upregulation than finasteride since it actually reduces AR contact with all androgens, testosterone and DHT rather than just DHT as with finasteride/dutasteride. Estradiol is an actual hormone, in itself it wouldn't reduce your androgens I would think so is less likely to cause AR upregulation long term.

 

[ema2iur]

I would think that spironolactone would be far more likely to cause androgen receptor upregulation than finasteride since it actually reduces AR contact with all androgens, testosterone and DHT rather than just DHT as with finasteride/dutasteride. Estradiol is an actual hormone, in itself it wouldn't reduce your androgens I would think so is less likely to cause AR upregulation long term.

-What is the mechanism of action for spironolactone? Is it an antagonist for AR? If it reduces contact and causes AR upregulation, would the upregulation have negative consequences if you're continually using spironolactone and still preventing contact?

-If estradiol doesn't affect androgens and doesn't really affect AR upregulation, then what benefits does estradiol really provide for fighting hairloss? The DHT will still be there and so will the receptor correct? Or would taking estradiol systemically negatively feedback on the whole endocrine system (hypo-pituitary axis mainly I guess) to cause reduced production of sex steroid hormones (both estrogens and androgens) from sex organs like testes?

Sorry my knowledge of endocrine function isn't the most sound so just looking for clarification if you can provide one. Just wondering how estradiol produces positive results for male pattern baldness, while at the same time it may (or will...I don't know) inevitably have negative feminizing effects?

 

[transam]

-What is the mechanism of action for spironolactone? Is it an antagonist for AR? If it reduces contact and causes AR upregulation, would the upregulation have negative consequences if you're continually using spironolactone and still preventing contact?

-If estradiol doesn't affect androgens and doesn't really affect AR upregulation, then what benefits does estradiol really provide for fighting hairloss? The DHT will still be there and so will the receptor correct? Or would taking estradiol systemically negatively feedback on the whole endocrine system (hypo-pituitary axis mainly I guess) to cause reduced production of sex steroid hormones (both estrogens and androgens) from sex organs like testes?

Sorry my knowledge of endocrine function isn't the most sound so just looking for clarification if you can provide one. Just wondering how estradiol produces positive results for male pattern baldness, while at the same time it may (or will...I don't know) inevitably have negative feminizing effects?

Read this:
Estrogen is a female hormone that is sometimes used to relieve the symptoms of certain types prostate cancer in men. When applied topically on the scalp it has been shown in studies to cause hair to enter the anagen phase. Estrogen taken oraly has been shown to completely reverse male pattern baldness in transgender patients. However estrogen competes with and shuts down the male hormone Testosterone and causes feminization including breast growth and female pattern fat deposits.

A study [Ohnemus 2006] found sex-dependent differences of frontotem-poral scalp hair shaft elongation after E2 treatments in vitro: in females the hair shaft elongation was inhibited, whereas E2 significantly stimulated hair shaft elongation in human frontotemporal anagen hair follicles from male patients in vitro. This corresponded to a significantly up-reg-ulated proliferation rate of the matrix keratinocytes in the male frontotemporal scalp hair follicles compared with fe-male hair follicles.

The major, clinically relevant effect of topical E2 on human scalp hair follicles seems to be the inhibition of catagen. In addition there may be important regional differences in the estrogen metabolism of hair follicle in different scalp locations that must be carefully taken into account when estrogens are applied topically. In males the vertex scalp hairs do not respond in the same manner as the frontal/mid regions.

Due to unwanted side effects like gynecomastia, E2 should not be used in men because very high topical doses seem to be required to obtain measurable hair growth effects.

 

[Baylad]

I attended a the 8th World hair Congress and the doctor representing minoxidil lectured that it would keep the hair your have and that at first you see a hair growth spurt but would level off to maybe a 5% increase over time........... he did not specify the term 'time".
I use it but it is only small part of my regime in combination with other things I micro needle in and have been for 3 years once a fortnight now and my hair is good.

 

[GoldenMane]

Read this:
Estrogen is a female hormone that is sometimes used to relieve the symptoms of certain types prostate cancer in men. When applied topically on the scalp it has been shown in studies to cause hair to enter the anagen phase. Estrogen taken oraly has been shown to completely reverse male pattern baldness in transgender patients. However estrogen competes with and shuts down the male hormone Testosterone and causes feminization including breast growth and female pattern fat deposits.

A study [Ohnemus 2006] found sex-dependent differences of frontotem-poral scalp hair shaft elongation after E2 treatments in vitro: in females the hair shaft elongation was inhibited, whereas E2 significantly stimulated hair shaft elongation in human frontotemporal anagen hair follicles from male patients in vitro. This corresponded to a significantly up-reg-ulated proliferation rate of the matrix keratinocytes in the male frontotemporal scalp hair follicles compared with fe-male hair follicles.

The major, clinically relevant effect of topical E2 on human scalp hair follicles seems to be the inhibition of catagen. In addition there may be important regional differences in the estrogen metabolism of hair follicle in different scalp locations that must be carefully taken into account when estrogens are applied topically. In males the vertex scalp hairs do not respond in the same manner as the frontal/mid regions.

Due to unwanted side effects like gynecomastia, E2 should not be used in men because very high topical doses seem to be required to obtain measurable hair growth effects.

Interesting, estrogen competes with androgens? I assume this means competes for androgen receptors? I wasn't aware that ARs could bond to estrogens...Doesn't sound plausible to me to be honest... Perhaps it works downstream on PGD2/PGE2? Simply causing hairs to enter the anagen phase wouldn't be enough to restore miniturized hair follicles...

To be honest, it sounds like the role of estrogens aren't fully understood. I would be wary of anything that reduces overall androgens or competes with androgens for ARs though since it would most likely cause AR upregulation. I know a lot of people think finasteride and dutasteride cause AR upregulation, but it seems unlikely to me since they don't actually reduce your overall androgens or block androgen receptors.

 

[transam]

Interesting, estrogen competes with androgens? I assume this means competes for androgen receptors? I wasn't aware that ARs could bond to estrogens...Doesn't sound plausible to me to be honest... Perhaps it works downstream on PGD2/PGE2? Simply causing hairs to enter the anagen phase wouldn't be enough to restore miniturized hair follicles...

To be honest, it sounds like the role of estrogens aren't fully understood. I would be wary of anything that reduces overall androgens or competes with androgens for ARs though since it would most likely cause AR upregulation. I know a lot of people think finasteride and dutasteride cause AR upregulation, but it seems unlikely to me since they don't actually reduce your overall androgens or block androgen receptors.

If estrogen isn't what fixes the miniaturized hairs, what is it?

 

[GoldenMane]

I'm not saying estrogen doesn't restore hair follicles, I'm just saying that it can't possibly compete with androgens for androgen receptors. Only androgens or substances like spironolacetone which mimic androgens and compete with androgens for androgen receptors. As far as I'm aware, nobody knows how estrogens might restore hair follicles, but clearly estrogens along with androgen receptor blockers can and do restore hair in transexuals.

 

[transam]

I'm not saying estrogen doesn't restore hair follicles, I'm just saying that it can't possibly compete with androgens for androgen receptors. Only androgens or substances like spironolacetone which mimic androgens and compete with androgens for androgen receptors. As far as I'm aware, nobody knows how estrogens might restore hair follicles, but clearly estrogens along with androgen receptor blockers can and do restore hair in transexuals.

I'd love to take spironolactone instead of Estrodiol, being that spironolactone DOES effect hair in a more "direct" way...But spironolactone can seriously f*** with your heart, if not monitored correctly.
GOD DAMMIT.

 

[transam]

Gtfo you f*****, telling people to get on sporo and or estradiol. We are men, I'd rather by a hair system then become a f***** like you for hair.

FYI, finasteride & dutasteride are given to transexuals as well...
Why?
Because they can be seen as somewhat SMALL forms of estrogen. Plus, they shrink your balls
LOL. Have a nice day

 

[transam]

I take hcg which enlarges balls. I also take arimidex to lower my estrogen so gtfo. You freak.

lol. okay buddy