Real Talk: I Think Half The People Here Have Severe Telogen Effluvium, And The Other Half Bdd

[djhype]

Sure a lot have male pattern baldness on top of Telogen Effluvium, and running both at the same time can lead to a severe, rapid hair loss.

But you don't lose you hair in weeks to months with male pattern baldness as I hear so many people here complaining, it's a slow process. Nor do you shed 50, 000 hairs in two weeks. Balding creeps up on average folk without them noticing excessive shedding as the hairs become more and more invisible each shedding phase.

If you take finasteride or Mixox with Telogen Effluvium you are bound to make it 50x worse and perhaps give yourself chronic Telogen Effluvium. That's when you lose it all overnight. These meds are not meant to treat Telogen Effluvium and actually contraindicate it.

A lot of the: "I got better my hair is full is again!" stories we are hearing are likely just people overcoming Telogen Effluvium, perhaps because they switched to meds they can better tolerate or the condition ran it's course (usually within 6 months, Chronic can go on forever if the source of the Telogen Effluvium, like AA meds are continued).

The other half are crazed lunatics with no signs of hairloss posting pictures of full heads of hair.

No doubt many people here have the male pattern baldness gene, as does most of the male population of the world, but people here tend to be hypochondriacs are just hopping from med to med in a panic misdiagnosing themselves, or have sh*t dermatologists misdiagnosing them and worsening their condition considerably.

TLDR: Most males bald at some point, but what brings people to forums like this is people who are traumatized because they either have bdd or get slammed with Telogen Effluvium on top of their male pattern baldness.

If you are shedding at an extremely abnormal rate but are male pattern baldness prone, stay away from these meds until you have the shedding under control.

 

[Moosey]

"A lot of the: "I got better my hair is full is again!" stories we are hearing are likely just people overcoming Telogen Effluvium, perhaps because they switched to meds they can better tolerate or the condition ran it's course (usually within 6 months, Chronic can go on forever if the source of the Telogen Effluvium, like AA meds are continued)."

Are you implying that people with hairloss who take any kind of working hairloss treatment and experience thicker, denser and fuller hair after a period of time and a period of increased shedding, didnt actually successfully treat their hairloss but rather see the endpoint of their telogen effivium and their so perceived better state of hair is actually them just being back to baseline (before treatment, before shedding phase)?

In other words, i just completed 7 months of dutasteride and the shedding finally stopped 3 weeks ago.
My hair looks better and denser than ever. Are you saying its not actually better. But i just think it is, because my hair looked worse during the shedding phase (the last 7 months).
????

 

[djhype]

Pretty much.

Hairfall is not really a common trait of male pattern baldness. Mostly it goes unnoticeable as the hairs minaturize.

These meds cause Telogen Effluvium and 7 months is about the usual length and duration.

Not saying the meds don't work in many cases, or in your case, but yeah, when you walk around with thinning hair for 7 months and then get better there is somewhat of a placebo effect.

Have any pics showing your progress? Not that I don't believe you just curious.

 

[Charlie Foxtrot]

Hmm, interesting look on the matter. Though, and I say this with respect so don’t see this as me bashing on your way of thinking, I’m skeptic..

I’ve been shedding like a feline for basically 1,5 years now. When it first started I panicked like crazy because I thought I was gonna be visibly bald(ing) in a matter of a couple months. To give a slight indication, I can easily get 200-300 hairs in the shower and that’s mostly from the top of my head since my sides and back are trimmed. It’s horrifying seeing your hair fall like that, but luckily for me I still have ok-ish hair 1,5 year later. If it was something like Telogen Effluvium it would have been gone much earlier right? (I don’t know much about Telogen Effluvium).

I also had bloodwork done so I don’t have any underlying thyroid issues.

I can also see miniaturized hairs between the hairs that I shed daily. They’re short, thin, whispy and sometimes curly. That made me start finasteride 2 months ago and I’m still on 1mg each day. I suppose people suffering from Telogen Effluvium don’t have miniaturized hairs as long as they haven’t started balding yet.

How does your theory work if you try to apply it to my situation?

Edit: Also I don’t experience the well know itch/inflammation but I do have some mild sebum on my head.

 

[djhype]

Hmm, interesting look on the matter. Though, and I say this with respect so don’t see this as me bashing on your way of thinking, I’m skeptic..

I’ve been shedding like a feline for basically 1,5 years now. When it first started I panicked like crazy because I thought I was gonna be visibly bald(ing) in a matter of a couple months. To give a slight indication, I can easily get 200-300 hairs in the shower and that’s mostly from the top of my head since my sides and back are trimmed. It’s horrifying seeing your hair fall like that, but luckily for me I still have ok-ish hair 1,5 year later. If it was something like Telogen Effluvium it would have been gone much earlier right? (I don’t know much about Telogen Effluvium).

I also had bloodwork done so I don’t have any underlying thyroid issues.

I can also see miniaturized hairs between the hairs that I shed daily. They’re short, thin, whispy and sometimes curly. That made me start finasteride 2 months ago and I’m still on 1mg each day. I suppose people suffering from Telogen Effluvium don’t have miniaturized hairs as long as they haven’t started balding yet.

How does your theory work if you try to apply it to my situation?

Edit: Also I don’t experience the well know itch/inflammation but I do have some mild sebum on my head.

My theory doesn't apply to every situation, but like you, and most of the people shedding on this forum, there are likely have elements of both Telogen Effluvium and male pattern baldness. You don't shed 300 visible hairs a day with male pattern baldness alone. Even if you carry the gene, which most males do. Actually, both conditions are known to trigger eachother and perpetuate the process. Having said that, I'd guess you have a root cause or some sort of intolerance. Telogen Effluvium has many causes that go beyond simply the thyroid. It is mostly suffered by females and it's very rare that their hair will thin to a signficant degree because their hairs are growing as fast and thick as they are shedding. Only in cases where the male pattern baldness gene is present will thinning usually present itself and it can still be a very slow process, while some lose 70% of their hiar in under a year.

With the fact that you are already shedding so much and have so many miniaturized hairs, I'd say finesteride is not the worst option because it can help with the male pattern baldness component your hair and may only make your Telogen Effluvium worse for a short period of time depending on your tolerance to the med.

So you may be best to give it 6 months or longer to see if you feel your hair is improving. Especially if you are not suffering any other sides.

In my case I notice very few miniaturized hairs and my problem was abrupt shedding. Won't be going near finasteride anytime soon.

 

[Moosey]

My theory doesn't apply to every situation, but like you, and most of the people shedding on this forum, there are likely have elements of both Telogen Effluvium and male pattern baldness. You don't shed 300 visible hairs a day with male pattern baldness alone. Even if you carry the gene, which most males do. Actually, both conditions are known to trigger eachother and perpetuate the process. Having said that, I'd guess you have a root cause or some sort of intolerance. Telogen Effluvium has many causes that go beyond simply the thyroid. It is mostly suffered by females and it's very rare that their hair will thin to a signficant degree because their hairs are growing as fast and thick as they are shedding. Only in cases where the male pattern baldness gene is present will thinning usually present itself and it can still be a very slow process, while some lose 70% of their hiar in under a year.

With the fact that you are already shedding so much and have so many miniaturized hairs, I'd say finesteride is not the worst option because it can help with the male pattern baldness component your hair and may only make your Telogen Effluvium worse for a short period of time depending on your tolerance to the med.

So you may be best to give it 6 months or longer to see if you feel your hair is improving. Especially if you are not suffering any other sides.

In my case I notice very few miniaturized hairs and my problem was abrupt shedding. Won't be going near finasteride anytime soon.

Why does the sudden, massive shedding have to be telogen effuvium though? I think its more likely that your body is simply shedding away those hairs to make room for the new, thicker, healthy ones.
I understand telogen effuvium can happen with finasteride or whatever, but it seems more likely to me that the sudden appereance of shedding is actually a sign of future regrowth, instead of just shedding and nothing else.

 

[djhype]

Why does the sudden, massive shedding have to be telogen effuvium though? I think its more likely that your body is simply shedding away those hairs to make room for the new, thicker, healthy ones.
I understand telogen effuvium can happen with finasteride or whatever, but it seems more likely to me that the sudden appereance of shedding is actually a sign of future regrowth, instead of just shedding and nothing else.

Anecdotally, the stories I'm reading here suggest that these people are losing so much hair they are traumatized enough to sign up to this forum and most are well below baseline and remain that way after starting these drugs, even worsening significantly. I think this forum represents a vocal minority but my posts are directed at the members here, members who are mostly poor responders to the meds, and if you are shedding hair in increasing quantities before even taking the meds, it's like putting gasoline on a fire as min and finasteride may actually cause chronic Telogen Effluvium. These meds were not made to help with hair shedding in the first place, but rather initiate regrowth and stop hair miniaturization.

In their best interests, these companies advertise that it's a good sign that if you are losing hair that means it's working, and that may be true for a couple of weeks or months, but if you losing hair for months on end in increasing quantities you are wise to get off the meds as you are likely a poor responder and there are other factors causing the loss with these Telogen Effluvium inducing meds only making the problem significantly worse.

The truth is, there is no treatment for Telogen Effluvium other than time and removing the offending agents that perpetuate it.

If you suffer true male pattern baldness with miniaturization, they may be worth a crack, but I would not be going anywhere near them if hair shedding was my primary concern.

 

[baba_yaga]

I have always shed a lot of hair. I hopped on minoxidil and I shed much much less at the top (where there is miniaturization) than the back. I am now two/three months into minoxidil.

 

[Moosey]

and if you are shedding hair in increasing quantities before even taking the meds, it's like putting gasoline on a fire as min and finasteride may actually cause chronic Telogen Effluvium. These meds were not made to help with hair shedding in the first place, but rather initiate regrowth and stop hair miniaturization.
.

I seem to misunderstood you. I would agree that if you experience heavy amounts of shedding (telogen effluvium), minoxidil or finasteride might not be the best for you. I just think if you have regular male pattern baldness, you get on the meds, experience heavy shedding, i would say thats rather a good sign for future regrowth of hair, instead of just shedding and nothing else.

 

[shoegazing]

No doubt many people here have the male pattern baldness gene, as does most of the male population of the world, but people here tend to be hypochondriacs are just hopping from med to med in a panic misdiagnosing themselves, or have sh*t dermatologists misdiagnosing them and worsening their condition considerably.

I agree. Some months ago I was completely paranoid about hair loss because I started wondering if a small "spot" in my right corner was a recession that leads to complete baldness. I first noticed it in 2015, but ignored because in my teenager mind only old people would go bald, and if someone young shaved his head was because he wanted to it. Anyway, I went to a shitty dermatologist and even before I had shown him this "spot" he prescribed me finasteride and a lot of stuff (even accutane for my acne lol I would have lose half of my hair). "If YoU KeEp UsInG FoR 12 moNtHs yoU'll bE fIne". I didn't buy the medication, though. This spot hasn't changed at all as well, it's the same as 2015.

Soon I discovered that he prescribed the medication to buy in his own drugstore. What a jerk.

 

[bluecyclone]

Question about Telogen Effluvium.

I was originally diagnosed with Telogen Effluvium before any treatments following the start other thyroid meds and an increase in T. The hair was all strong healthy that was being lost.

Started minoxidil and shed a ridiculous amount of hair. On topical Finasteride for a year. The shed has never slowed or changed but the hair is much weaker with no white bulbs. My understanding is this is now male pattern baldness not Telogen Effluvium, though doctors are still saying it is Telogen Effluvium with mild male pattern baldness. All I want to understand is whether or not the treatments are making things worse and how to evaluate that in he safest way possible for my hair. Starting Minoxidil set me back years and I’d say the same for Finasteride but maybe I’m too far in to turn back.

 

[Moosey]

Question about Telogen Effluvium.

I was originally diagnosed with Telogen Effluvium before any treatments following the start other thyroid meds and an increase in T. The hair was all strong healthy that was being lost.

Started minoxidil and shed a ridiculous amount of hair. On topical Finasteride for a year. The shed has never slowed or changed but the hair is much weaker with no white bulbs. My understanding is this is now male pattern baldness not Telogen Effluvium, though doctors are still saying it is Telogen Effluvium with mild male pattern baldness. All I want to understand is whether or not the treatments are making things worse and how to evaluate that in he safest way possible for my hair. Starting Minoxidil set me back years and I’d say the same for Finasteride but maybe I’m too far in to turn back.

Minoxidil completely wrecked my hair.
Minoxidil synches your hair cycles. You are in for an endless loop of shedding and regrowth.
Id drop minoxidil if i was you, and keep the rest

 

[djhype]

Question about Telogen Effluvium.

I was originally diagnosed with Telogen Effluvium before any treatments following the start other thyroid meds and an increase in T. The hair was all strong healthy that was being lost.

Started minoxidil and shed a ridiculous amount of hair. On topical Finasteride for a year. The shed has never slowed or changed but the hair is much weaker with no white bulbs. My understanding is this is now male pattern baldness not Telogen Effluvium, though doctors are still saying it is Telogen Effluvium with mild male pattern baldness. All I want to understand is whether or not the treatments are making things worse and how to evaluate that in he safest way possible for my hair. Starting Minoxidil set me back years and I’d say the same for Finasteride but maybe I’m too far in to turn back.

I think your doctors are right. You likely have mild male pattern baldness and severe Telogen Effluvium. I have mild male pattern baldness and mild Telogen Effluvium. Most men have who have both, have them at the same time. Actually Telogen Effluvium can trigger male pattern baldness and vice versa. Or their causes can be unrelated. I read your thread. Telogen Effluvium seems to be by far your most prominent problem. Shedding of the hair can happen with male pattern baldness alone but it is much more serious shedding in cases of Telogen Effluvium. Your Telogen Effluvium may have actually caused your mild male pattern baldness, but you obviously had the gene waiting there dormant for a trigger to set it off.

Basically you are noticing the shed hairs from the Telogen Effluvium miniaturizing because of the now present male pattern baldness.

You saying minoxidil and finasteride setting you back years pretty much answers your own question. Get rid of them and you will likely see eventual improvement closer to baseline. Chronic Telogen Effluvium is not a permanent condition if the factors that initiate them are removed, but it will take a while for the cycle to slow down. It's likely your hair will never be what it was, but it can potentially be a lot better than it is now.

There really is no safe way to evaluate what removing the meds will do. About the best you can do is get off one of the meds at a time and give it time to see what happens before removing the next, if nessesary. Starting with the minoxidil first would probably be the best route since that is when you noticed the worst increase in shedding. You can also try weening off the meds slowly but that may just perpetuate the time involved in the healing process and leave you worse off. On the other hand it could also make the shed less dramatic without triggering any more problems. It's impossible to tell how things are going to go down.

Your hair may take another substantial hit, but you will be better off in the long term because obviously these meds are hindering you more than they are helping you.

 

[bluecyclone]

Yes I mean the gene is present in the mix my father was rather bald at 30, mothers side grandfather full head at 96. The notion that you are trying things and investing a ton of time effort and risk to only make things worse is real futility. I would be content with my old density and recession so at least I’d have a transplant option. The diffuse thinning in a full head pattern with no stabilization makes the chance of a transplant before going very bald impossible. I might give a shot at dropping the Minoxidil. I don’t the the topical Finasteride is doing much good or bad, she was the same. But I was shedding like crazy before the Minoxidil just only crown with thick hairline. Minoxidil and the the Finasteride seemed to make the hairline alone worse but who knows maybe it’s just aggressive loss.

 

[DoctorHouse]

Yes I mean the gene is present in the mix my father was rather bald at 30, mothers side grandfather full head at 96. The notion that you are trying things and investing a ton of time effort and risk to only make things worse is real futility. I would be content with my old density and recession so at least I’d have a transplant option. The diffuse thinning in a full head pattern with no stabilization makes the chance of a transplant before going very bald impossible. I might give a shot at dropping the Minoxidil. I don’t the the topical Finasteride is doing much good or bad, she was the same. But I was shedding like crazy before the Minoxidil just only crown with thick hairline. Minoxidil and the the Finasteride seemed to make the hairline alone worse but who knows maybe it’s just aggressive loss.

You still taking synthroid?

 

[bluecyclone]

Yes. Up to 125mg a day. When I started it was 25 mg and my TSH number was barely out our range hypo. I stopped last year for 6 months and went pretty far hypo 5+ from 2 on synthroid. I even take a branded Tirosent said to have less sub ingredients no gluten etc.

This has to be somehow linked. I’m thinking of dropping oral minoxidil, doctors tell me Minoxidil can ‘never do any harm’ and flying to Vancouver to get lipsomal.

Are these little hairs miniaturized? The are thin sometimes grow about 2 inches then fall out.

 

[djhype]

Yes. Up to 125mg a day. When I started it was 25 mg and my TSH number was barely out our range hypo. I stopped last year for 6 months and went pretty far hypo 5+ from 2 on synthroid. I even take a branded Tirosent said to have less sub ingredients no gluten etc.

This has to be somehow linked. I’m thinking of dropping oral minoxidil, doctors tell me Minoxidil can ‘never do any harm’ and flying to Vancouver to get lipsomal.

Are you shedding on the sides as well as the top?

I can't even if I am because I keep the sides shaved

 

[bluecyclone]

It has thinned sides and back, I can see short growth making the remaining longer hair but the safe zone is much thicker than sides and entire top.

 

[Charlie Foxtrot]

Like, even if the insane shedding is caused by Telogen Effluvium, how do you figure out what is causing it?

For me the shed started pre meds so I can rule that out. Also my thyroid levels are good, I hardly experience any stress and my vitamin levels are decent I suppose. Also this stuff has been going on for 1,5 years and normally Telogen Effluvium should bounce back after a couple months if you eliminate the factor causing it right?

 

[djhype]

Like, even if the insane shedding is caused by Telogen Effluvium, how do you figure out what is causing it?

For me the shed started pre meds so I can rule that out. Also my thyroid levels are good, I hardly experience any stress and my vitamin levels are decent I suppose. Also this stuff has been going on for 1,5 years and normally Telogen Effluvium should bounce back after a couple months if you eliminate the factor causing it right?

So many things can cause it you'd have to deeply look into the events 3 months prior to your first shed to find the cause, sometimes it has multiple causes.

For me it was obvious, heavy steroids and extreme weight cutting.

So many other things like the thyroid, dieting, hormonal fluctuations, nutritional deficiencies, even working out too hard at the gym... if you still can't narrow it down go to a doctor and get extensive blood work.