Seborheatic Dermititus: Relevance? Success?

[Molecular Help]

This is my biggest problem currently. I've read everything on here about Seborheatic Dermititus (although I know I don't quite have the spelling right), and the line on its relevance to male pattern baldness seems to be that it often occurs along with hair loss, though it doesn't actually cause it directly. Almost everyone experiences itching during hair loss. Many posters complain of increased shedding from the areas of their scalp that are itching. This is a normal bi-product of male pattern baldness.

Am I to understand as well that there is no cure, only treatment? I've used prescription shampoo for it several years ago, and it did work for awhile, but you can't use it forever. Over the counter shampoos are just doing the trick- it cleared up for awhile in the summer but now it's just as bad as ever despite alternating Nizoral 2%, T-gel with salicylic acid and T-gel conidtioner (as well as folligen spray after shower). The thing is, if i really massage the stuff in there with some force and use an over generous amount (for several minutes), the scales do come off. Afterwards my scalp feels kind of weird, and the scaling returns after a few days.

Actually it's at its itchiest on the sides of my head right now, an area never affected by male pattern baldness. Hair comes off there just as much as on top, though it doesnt look like anything bad, probably because the hair is all going in the same direction and doesn't receive direct light like the top does.

Almost seems like that could be my only problem.... that would be nice but I have recession too and that's a male pattern baldness thing only.

I do plan on going to the doctor for it again, though from all the material I've gathered on here, they can only give me a stronger shampoo and I can never be rid of the problem completely. I must have male pattern baldness, but perhaps it wouldn't be as bad if I could somehow get the SD under control.

So my question is- to the best of any of your knowledge and personal experience, am I wrong about my apraisal of this situation in any way? If so, what am I missing? AND- has anyone with SD treated it successfully with something I DIDN'T mention above? And what about the connection between SD and hairloss? It's obviously causing me additonal hair loss in an area that dht does not confront (sides, above the ear not the temples), but it's not something that could simulate recession at the temples (also the front is going back in choppy uneven way).

Replies from anyone who's dealt with this problem would be much appreciated!!! Thanks!

 

[Old Baldy]

MH: I'm just a layman but declared war on male pattern baldness in Sept., 2004. Got an hair transplant and started researching topicals and pills.

Alot of my searching the internet led me to the inflammation area of male pattern baldness and the basics I found were:

1 - Seb. dermatitus is chronic and some people just have a genetic predisposition to it.

2 - Diet, medicated shampoos, etc., all help but it is chronic and, if I remember corrrectly, it can be a life long problem.

3 - male pattern baldness inflammation can go unnoticed because, for alot of guys, it is not outwardly visible, doesn't necessarily cause pain or itchiness and involves the immune system "attacking" the follicles "infected" by DHT.

4 - This male pattern baldness inflammation is especially insidious because it might not cause any pain or outwardly noticable effects. It can be a "silent" killer as I like to call it now.

5 - male pattern baldness inflammation appears to be the "last straw" in the infected follicles eventual demise into minaturization.

The type of inflammation you are experiencing is not what I had. I probably had the male pattern baldness inflammation and DIDN'T EVEN KNOW IT! I also believe it is an area of male pattern baldness that MUST be dealt with. The problem is can it really be dealt with or is it too late to help the infected follicles anyways?

Your condition is not something that can be fully cured from what I've read. Sorry, but that's what I got out of hours and hours of reading about scalp inflammation.

I guess using a shotgun approach to seb. derm. is the only thing you can really do right now.

 

[Juan Carlos Mederra]

In my op. male pattern baldness and Seb. Derm are very much related.
I had Seb Derm alongside with Hairloss for two years. I used Nizoral, T Gel and even topical steroids to no avail.
I started Proscar about 3 1/2 months ago..initially things got worse..the itch aswell as shedding. Once I included Folligen to my regimen my scalp cleared and the shedding stopped. it took 2 weeks though to start working. but now I have been on it for 6 weeks and I don't have itching anymore and the shedding stopped completely. I am also experiencing regrowth, mainly due to to minoxidil. But if things go aswell as they did the past few months then I won't be having any hair problems in a short while.

So my advise to you is: Start using Folligen..initially it might sting a bit, but stick with it. And u might also want to get on Finestaride.

 

[Molecular Help]

I'm using both right now. Do you live in a cold dry climate? I ask because I was having success reducing the SD before winter hit, and now it's invincible. I don't know if that's a cooincidense but I doubt it since winter generally makes my usually problem free skin all dry.

 

[oni]

Try http://www.aafp.org/afp/20000501/2703.html there is a nice table of different treatments that might help

 

[cak]

Actually in my case,

I am using Tea Tree oil in my shampoo.

I buy a normal shampoo (preferably herbal), with little or no conditioner (i ve seen that shampoos with conditioner make my scalp feel lousy more oily and more itchy and more scales) and add atleast 5 ml of pure tea tree oil to the shampoo bottle.

Use it every morning, scurb a bit hard, so that the shampoo touchs all parts of your scalp, leave it for a minute, rinse. After just 3 weeks, my scalp felt better.

It still itches, a bit of scales, but the hair fall is like night and day. I see only about 10 hairs in my shower drain. I guess tea tree oil is helping in keeping the fungus/bacteria away.

For itching and a bit of scale, i guess i will try emu oil and leave it overnight ....

Cak

 

[Fran]

Juan Carlos, are u from Spain?it´s that I dont know where to buy folligen here,and if u have found it here it would be a great help.Thanks anyway

 

[jimmystanley]

ya,...i have been battling seborrhea for about 6 years now and have had hair loss for about 7. They are definitely interrelated. I think that male pattern baldness brings on seborrhea and ...seborrhea brings on hair loss...not male pattern baldness. i think it just speeds it up. So this logic means that if u eliminate male pattern baldness u eliminate seborrhea...but if u eliminate seborrhea u still will have male pattern baldness. How ever...it is supremely important to keep a clean scalp and not let the SD get out of control since SD can cause all kinds of hair to fall out and thus speed up the male pattern baldness process. I still haven't found a solid relief button... i know that there is no cure. Nizoral doesn't help...h&s helps a bit... i found that there was a certain type of selsun that used to get rid of it...but it wasn't selsun blue...it was in a white bottle and was specifically for SD...i can't find it anymore though. probably because there is only around 2% of the population that has SD...so not a very profitable margin. hope this helps. (shaving ur head is a great cure by the way)

 

[pilogenic101]

Molecular: For scalp inflammation, itching and daily excess hair loss that may be connected to seb derm (SD) or folliculitis, you might want to try a leave-in (overnight) conditioner in addition to a good therapeutic shampoo. You can always wash the conditioner out of the hair in the morning shower. Frequent use of shampoos, even natural ones, may upset scalp health (balance), that a proper conditioner may help to correct. I use a set of leave-in natural conditioners, in rotation, containing things like pine shale oil, apple cider vinegar, kaolin clay, kelp, etc. I also rotate thru therapeutic shampoos, to keep the "bugs" off guard. I suspect that a good internal detox with herbals and modern probiotics may also help in some cases. Daily scalp massage may also help. Use whatever works for you. Results for me so far: reduction (normalization?) of scalp oiliness, less scalp itching, less scalp inflammation, substantially less daily excess hair loss.

 

[Old Baldy]

These types of inflammations must be stopped if we can IMHO. If we don't, I'm worried these types of scalp inflammations might end up killing the follicles.

If we can stop this immune system reaction we might at least keep the follicles in the dormant stage until something better comes along.
male pattern baldness is alot more insidious than I ever knew. I mean our own immune systems eventually look at our infected follicles as foreign bodies. That's insidious and ridiculous.

Here's an example (there are MANY) of what dermatoligists say about inflammation and male pattern baldness. I got this from a November, 2003 posting at a hairloss forum:

WHAT'S NEW IN ANDROGENETIC ALOPECIA

A. Tosti, BM Piraccini, S. Mantovani Department of Dermatology University of Bologna, Italy.

Androgenetic alopecia is the most common type of hair loss in both men and women. Accumulating evidence indicates that androgens are not the only factor involved in the pathogenesis of this condition but that other elements may be important as well. Recent work indicates that androgenetic alopecia in men is a different pathophysiologic event as compared to androgenetic alopecia
in women. In women, miniaturization is not the main event. Hair loss is mostly correlated with reduced hair density and the "empty follicle phenomenon" can be very important in determining this
feature. The finding that miniaturization may not be gradual but rather occurs rapidly is also new.

The role of inflammation and seborrheic dermatitis in the etiology of hair loss has been debated for years but today we have consistent data to conclude that the inflammation that often accompanies
androgenetic alopecia is an important aggravating factor. Inflammation can accelerate the progression of
hair loss by promoting telogen effluvium and may also induce perifollicular fibrosis and scarring.

Microinflammation may therefore be a significant factor in determining long-term prognosis as well as response to treatment.

We have recently found a significative association between superficial perifollicular lymphocytic infiltration and the presence of peripilar signs at the scalp dermoscopy.

Although it is easy for any dermatologist to recognize and diagnose androgenetic alopecia just by looking at the patient, we still lack of a simple and reliable method to evaluate severity of androgenetic
alopecia. The lack of such methods compromises our ability to diagnose early disease. Still, patients frequently require hair analysis and as dermatologists we should be able to perform the test using good and reliable methods.

Distinguishing between normal and abnormal hair loss can even be more difficult in middle-aged individuals where androgenetic alopecia and senescent thinning of the hair may be associated or even
overlap.
-------------

 

[Juan Carlos Mederra]

Fran,

I am in the UK but I order it online. One of the places where you can order Folligen is this site!

 

[Fran]

Thanks Juan Carlos, it´s only that I wanted to avoid the shipping costs ,thank u so much anyway!