The Anti-Gun Governor of Illinois

[Old Baldy]

To all people who argue with me about my pro-gun stance:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081209/ap_ ... tion_probe

This governor is as anti-gun as you can get IMHO. His position on firearms has consistently been to deny private citizens the right to own firearms. He is apparently, (i.e., as has been alleged by pro-gun proponents like myself over the years), a corrupt, evil, power hungry man.

Can you imagine living in a country where someone like him holds undue power, with only the police and military owning all the firearms?

 

[PersonGuy]

If you outlaw guns, the only people who will have guns will be the outlaws. Average private citizens should not be denied the rights to protect themselves, as they are not the ones we have to worry about regarding gun related crimes.

 

[The Gardener]

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Reading about this governor makes me want to keep Guantanamo open. And as our institutions continue to disintegrate, I'm sure there will be many, many more others who should join him there.

 

[hair_tomorrow]

This guy is all over the news. He's into a lot more than just guns. I'm pretty sure they arrested him today (for trying to "sell" Obama's recently vacated senate seat).

I have relatives in Chicago. They must be loving this.

~~~ update ~~~


Gov. Blagojevich free on $4,500 bail after arrest
Democratic Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich appeared in court this afternoon to hear federal corruption charges against him related to the selection of President-elect Barack Obama's successor. U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald said Blagojevich tried to sell the Senate seat in exchange for favors. Bail was set at $4,500, and Blagojevich was released on his own recognizance. ...

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/12/09/ ... index.html

 

[Old Baldy]

He really is a POS. Isn't that two governors in a row from Illinois who have been in deep trouble with the law? The last one was a Republican named Ryan IIRC. Another POS.

Heck, I know I am far from perfect but these guys are off the charts IMHO.

 

[HughJass]

Can you imagine living in a country where someone like him holds undue power, with only the police and military owning all the firearms?

Yes, and this is what it looks like:

 

[The Gardener]

While it is true that gun injuries are more prevalent in the US, the flip side of that equation is that violent crime is dramatically lower in the US than it is in either Australia or UK.

The International Crime Victims Survey, conducted by Leiden University in Holland, found that England and Wales ranked second overall in violent crime among industrialized nations.

Twenty-six percent of English citizens -- roughly one-quarter of the population -- have been victimized by violent crime. Australia led the list with more than 30 percent of its population victimized.

The United States didn't even make the "top 10" list of industrialized nations whose citizens were victimized by crime.

Jack Straw, the British home secretary, admitted that "levels of victimization are higher than in most comparable countries for most categories of crime."

Highlights of the study indicated that:


The percentage of the population that suffered "contact crime" in England and Wales was 3.6 percent, compared with 1.9 percent in the United States and 0.4 percent in Japan.

Burglary rates in England and Wales were also among the highest recorded. Australia (3.9 percent) and Denmark (3.1 per cent) had higher rates of burglary with entry than England and Wales (2.8 percent). In the U.S., the rate was 2.6 percent, according to 1995 figures;

"After Australia and England and Wales, the highest prevalence of crime was in Holland (25 percent), Sweden (25 percent) and Canada (24 percent). The United States, despite its high murder rate, was among the middle ranking countries with a 21 percent victimization rate," the London Telegraph said.

England and Wales also led in automobile thefts. More than 2.5 percent of the population had been victimized by car theft, followed by 2.1 percent in Australia and 1.9 percent in France. Again, the U.S. was not listed among the "top 10" nations.

The study found that Australia led in burglary rates, with nearly 4 percent of the population having been victimized by a burglary. Denmark was second with 3.1 percent; the U.S. was listed eighth at about 1.8 percent.
Interestingly, the study found that one of the lowest victimization rates -- just 15 percent overall -- occurred in Northern Ireland, home of the Irish Republican Army and scene of years of terrorist violence.

Analysts in the U.S. were quick to point out that all of the other industrialized nations included in the survey had stringent gun-control laws, but were overall much more violent than the U.S.

Indeed, information on Handgun Control's Center to Prevent Handgun Violence website actually praises Australia and attempts to portray Australia as a much safer country following strict gun-control measures passed by lawmakers in 1996.

"The next time a credulous friend or acquaintance tells you that Australia actually suffered more crime when they got tougher on guns ... offer him a Foster's, and tell him the facts," the CPHV site says.

"In 1998, the rate at which firearms were used in murder, attempted murder, assault, sexual assault and armed robbery went down. In that year, the last for which statistics are available, the number of murders involving a firearm declined to its lowest point in four years," says CPHV.

However, the International Crime Victims Survey notes that overall crime victimization Down Under rose from 27.8 percent of the population in 1988, to 28.6 percent in 1991 to over 30 percent in 1999.

Advocates of less gun control in the U.S. say the drop in gun murder rates was more than offset by the overall victimization increase. Also, they note that Australia leads the ICVS report in three of four categories -- burglary (3.9 percent of the population), violent crime (4.1 percent) and overall victimization (about 31 percent).

Australia is second to England in auto theft (2.1 percent).

In March 2000, WorldNetDaily reported that since Australia's widespread gun ban, violent crime had increased in the country.

WND reported that, although lawmakers responsible for passing the ban promised a safer country, the nation's crime statistics tell a different story:


Countrywide, homicides are up 3.2 percent.
Assaults are up 8.6 percent.
Amazingly, armed robberies have climbed nearly 45 percent.
In the Australian state of Victoria, gun homicides have climbed 300 percent.
In the 25 years before the gun bans, crime in Australia had been dropping steadily.
There has been a reported "dramatic increase" in home burglaries and assaults on the elderly.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic ... E_ID=21902

 

[Old Baldy]

Once again you're correct Gardener.

It's common knowledge that the UK, Canada and Australia have much higher rates of violent crime than the USA.

Of course, they are also rabidly anti-gun.

England/Canada suffers twice the violent crime rate compared to the USA...

Australia suffers 3 times the violent crime rate seen in the USA...

Since the gun ban in Australia, violent crime has shot up 400%.

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/cfi/cfi115.html

(Of course, the authors try to make excuses for statistical measurement changes but, no two ways about it, the violent crime rates are much higher in Australia, the UK and Canada. Funny how anti-gun laws achieve the exact opposite effect of their intended consequences. Oh well, put your head back in the sand Aussie.)

 

[Old Baldy]

Gardener: Did you see where Governor Blowmydi** had a FOID card??!! Unbelievable!!

 

[The Gardener]

Old Baldy, my hope is that these times of trouble will be a time of awakening and a time of a harvest of honesty for us. I think this era will portend a sort of cleansing, a re-grounding of our society on more solid foundations.

Let the cleansing begin. And let it trickle down into every crack and crevice of our institutions.

 

[HughJass]

Once again you're correct Gardener.

It's common knowledge that the UK, Canada and Australia have much higher rates of violent crime than the USA.

Price of apples?

Gun bans were not introduced to end all violent crime. They were enacted to make a dent in gun crime.

Of course, they are also rabidly anti-gun.

Or maybe you reactionary mofo's are just gun obsessed

Australia suffers 3 times the violent crime rate seen in the USA...

Since the gun ban in Australia, violent crime has shot up 400%.

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/cfi/cfi115.html

Note: Violent crime comprises homicide, assault, sexual assault and robbery.

And if we take a look at the data here, we'll see that the increase in Australian violent crime consists mainly of higher rates of assault.

Assault.

Which could range from being beaten up in the street to being b**ch slapped by your wife. Hardly anything like being shot in the face, where my chance of that happening dramatically increases the moment I leave Australia and set foot on US soil. A 294 fold increase in chance, actually.

So yes, you might have more chance of getting a pasting here or have your house robbed, but there is more chance of gun homicide and homicide in the US. Besides, you can't know that lower rates of particular crimes in the US can be attributed to widespread gun ownership, you can only assume.

Your NRA talking points crack me the f*** up Baldster. You lot just cannot accept that the gun laws here have done what they were meant to to and bought gun crime down. Americans lecturing Australians about guns and violent crime would be comedy gold if it wasn't so tragic.

US Cities More Violent Than Iraqi Provinces

 

[Old Baldy]

Per your table, attempted murder increased and actual murder is about the same. Combined attempted murder and actual murder increased since you enacted firearms prohibitions. So..... what is the big benefit?

Yes, we have a higher murder rate. You have a higher overall violent crime rate. In fact, much higher. I love how you attempt to discount assault reports. I noticed sexual assaults are up.

The trade off for you was less murder than us but much higher levels of overall violent crime (edit: wait, your attempted murder and actual murder, combined rate, is higher since your firearms prohibition laws were enacted :freak: ). The stats speak for themselves and similar results are found in many studies.

Criminals love the fact that you allow no one to own firearms to guard against lawlessness.

Simple as that.

Your denial of this basic fact worries me Aussie!

 

[Old Baldy]

Old Baldy, my hope is that these times of trouble will be a time of awakening and a time of a harvest of honesty for us. I think this era will portend a sort of cleansing, a re-grounding of our society on more solid foundations.

Let the cleansing begin. And let it trickle down into every crack and crevice of our institutions.

I hope so Gardener, I hope so.

I admit to being far from perfect but.....geez!!

 

[JayBear]

I'm sorry, I don't understand the purpose of this post. Are you justifying your interpretation of the second amendment by pointing out that gun control supporters are corrupt like him? Are you claiming that it was his anti-gun stances that corrupted him? Why associate his corruption with his stance on the second amendment?

 

[Old Baldy]

Just pointing out how hyprocritical politicians are. Here's a guy who says society would be better off if we lived in a police state yet, he is as corrupt as they come. He gets armed protection but we common folk must be disarmed and become sheep.

I'm surprised you don't recognize the danger in letting tyrant wannabes disarm the ordinary Joe's in society. And Govenor Blowmydi** is definitely a tyrant wannabe IMHO. Or should I say "was".

Plus, I like to pull your chains!! :mrgreen:

 

[squeegee]

Whatever statistics you guys got on hand...I feel way safer anywhere in my Country (Canada) than any States in the U.S..period. I am against of owning a gun.If you feel unsafe where you live without a gun just f*****g move. I am 30 years old, I never had a gun of my life and still here. Most crimes here are committed by native or immigrants... and more more done with riffles (Wannabe American). If you like guns and want to use it for good things and be a superhero just join the Military or Police.

 

[Old Baldy]

If you want to live like a sheep squeegee that's your right. I choose not to and you don't have the right to take away my most fundamental right (i.e., the right to guard against tyranny and lawlessness).

"Just f***ing move" - oh well, you're just a 30 year old sheepie kid.

 

[squeegee]

If you want to live like a sheep squeegee that's your right. I choose not to and you don't have the right to take away my most fundamental right (i.e., the right to guard against tyranny and lawlessness).

"Just f***ing move" - oh well, you're just a 30 year old sheepie kid.

You just proved the World that Americans are insecure, live in fear and need a gun to justify their safety. BTW, the sheepie kid is in the Military and never owned a personal weapon outside work.

 

[JayBear]

Just pointing out how hyprocritical politicians are. Here's a guy who says society would be better off if we lived in a police state yet, he is as corrupt as they come. He gets armed protection but we common folk must be disarmed and become sheep.

I'm surprised you don't recognize the danger in letting tyrant wannabes disarm the ordinary Joe's in society. And Govenor Blowmydi** is definitely a tyrant wannabe IMHO. Or should I say "was".

Plus, I like to pull your chains!! :mrgreen:

Ok, first of all, I agree that there are many hypocritical politicians. But you have to realize that they exist on both sides of every issue, certainly not excepting the gun control issue. Second, I don't think you truly understand the concept of a police state if that is what you are assuming gun control proponents hope for. I'm not very familiar with Blagojevich's political stances, but I can assure you that that is actually the exact opposite of what most pro-gun control liberals hope for. Third, Blagojevich was not a tyrant wannabe by any stretch of the imagination. He was trying to use the power he currently had for immediate monetary gain. There is no indication whatsoever that he was attempting to increase his power above what he already had, or what was allowed him by state law, let alone anything more significant than what the constitution allowed for. He is/was a small time, petty, corrupt politician. Not a tyrant.

If your fear is that us gun control proponents expect that the end of our efforts will be a police state, allow me to set your mind at ease. Nobody in recent history has done more to move us toward a police state than conservatives, even and especially the pro-gun ones.

 

[Old Baldy]

If you don't believe in police states then let ordinary law abiding citizens own firearms.

I understand what you are saying but we just plain have a fundamental disagreement. Let's just agree to disagree.