just saw this on reddit

[shookwun]

What puzzles me is a lot of girls I meet keep telling me they don't go for the best looking, all though that's initially what they are after. They want to date men with good qualities & personalities. I keep hearing this but don't know what to believe.

 

[marco75]

They always go for the best-looking guys (for them) they can get initially.

If someone she finds better-looking comes along and is accessible, she will leave your *** as soon as she can.

We should also not forget that looks = personality and vice versa anyway.

I still think personality, common interests, all that crap are irrelevant.

I've seen too many women with hot guys they had absolutely nothing in common with and who were complete dimwits.

They justified everything by "I love him", which means, "I get wet when I look at him and it feels good".

It's nice for her to have a guy she gets along with, but it's not a requirement. It's just nice.

Looks are everything, a really really handsome guy will have scores of women (at his workplace, social circle, gym etc) "in love" with him without even trying, he may also be dull or a dick but it won't matter. Whereas average and below guy has to work his as off to get one girl to feel that way. Hair doesn't matter that much if you have looks, face/height/build etc. See guys with amazing thick hair and it's good to look at but unless it's on top of a good looking face it's not going to take him to the top tier.

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So here is my thing.
This forum is full of double standards where most guys seem to want 10's but get mad at 10 women when they dont want them back. Ive said this many time before. Its a jealousy that is creating bitterness. They then get mad at women who are like 6s but go for 10 guys. I mean most of us here are like 5s and 6s but still think they should achieve 10s. I mean give the women credit for going for the out of their league chance.

Im starting a site, called

www.justforfives.com

It will be a dating site compromised of ALL fives! It will be like other sites where people can be voted off. If you are above a 5 then the community can vote you off, but hey dont be mad, that just means youre over a 5.

Anyone want to donate?

You can be a 3 with a great personality and money and that will make you a 5 but you CANT be an 8 with a schitty personality and be considered a 5 to clean up.

The whole 0-10 rating thing is not real, there are unattractive, neutral, attractive and gorgeous. most men are neutral and below. If you've been told by multiple women (not relatives or friends) that you hot, gorgeous handsome etc then you are in the top group.

 

[shookwun]

There are extremes, handsome & ugly then everyone else on the average category.


I just find it peculiar how almost all women keep telling me they might not initialy be that attracted but over time when getting to know someone they become more attracted. I think it's absolute bull****. If I am not physically into you then talking and forming rapport is a chore. Been in that situation, where there is little attraction and you just want to fall asleep. Don't feel like contributing to the coversation due to the lack of physical stimulation.


Personality is genetic, and how receptive a women is to your personality is largely influenced by her physical attraction.

Sure she might become more attracted over time, but unless there is substantial physical attraction from the beggining it will never happen.




Its hard to accept, but our physical aesthetics determines the quality of our life. Good looking people are always cheerful, and happy. You don't act happy..that's ridiculous. Our aesthetics, and accomplishments reflect how happy we are in our lives. When you look good, you always feel good

 

[cocohot]

Quoted for truth. You don't find many realistic posts like these on the internet.

I've had so many first dates in my life (I'm sure I will get to 100 by the end of this year).

I can tell what is BS and what is not when it comes to dating.

If attraction isn't instantaneous and the girl isn't immediately very responsive, don't waste your time.

Do you think you'll find true love again like you did with your last girlfriend before the unplanned pregnancy?

 

[shookwun]

How about creampieing a girl on birth control?

 

[blackg]

How about creampieing a girl on birth control?

That doesn't always work, either.

 

[Roberto_72]

What puzzles me is a lot of girls I meet keep telling me they don't go for the best looking, all though that's initially what they are after. They want to date men with good qualities & personalities. I keep hearing this but don't know what to believe.

I think this happens because every one of these girls has found a good looking guy who treated them like ****e and they think happiness lies somewhere else.
One other reason it is absurd that women would not choose hot men if they can is that they like to show off and they need validation. Why would they introduce an ugly men to dear friends and family? I heard with these ears a smart woman say "I know he is a jerk, bUt we look good together".

 

[marco75]

Really, the best tip you can give anyone who's feeling down about their life and/or is having trouble attracting friends/women/men, is just to dedicate all their spare time to working on their appearance. It has such an outsized effect compared to anything else you can do.

My parents firmly instilled in me that doing anything beyond brushing your teeth and throwing on the first rumpled t-shirt you can find was "vain", and had nothing to say for the quality of your social interactions. That gave me 25 years of misery being an outcast. I still hate them for it. Now I have completely ignored their invocations and embraced this so-called vanity as a source of pleasure and power. It has literally solved about 75% of the issues in my life.

If I had good hair, the residual issues in my life would be very minor. Looks are not all that matter, that's a bit extreme, but they may really be 50-60% of your life quality depending on your situation.

I agree 100%, just think about when you go out in company and one of the girls is very attractive, how does it make you feel. You want to look at her, talk to her be nice and try and bang her. Now she will get this everywhere she goes its the same for guys although women are more discrete but the signals are always there.

 

[cocohot]

Women almost always follow their emotions, for them, emotions = truth and it's always a goos idea to take decisions based on them.

Men usually aren't like that, I know I'm not like that. That's why men can be trusted, and women can never be.

My girlfriend's abortion was everything but a rational decision. It wasn't the right thing to do. Women should never take decisions without consulting their man.

My girlfriend had three people as support during the process: her mother, a female friend and a female colleague.

The fact that no one else on her side knows about this reinforces the idea that women are selfish and cannot be trusted. I can't believe she has told everyone that she left me because she just fell out of love.

She convinced herself of that too because that's what she said in her last messages to me.

lol, such betrayal. She didn't consult you because she knew what you'd say and it wasn't what she wanted to hear.

 

[Rudiger]

As I've said before, my interests come first. I don't go with other women for sex.

I do it for the experience. To keep my options open.

Well that worked wonders didn't it? Considering you had to start from scratch again once it was over.

Total nonsense ed, you do it to get your end away with a woman other than the one at home, because as all men agree, it's more exciting to **** various women. Hell that's even why guys **** a chubby 6/10 when their 9/10 goddess is sitting at home bored.

Are you seriously telling me that when you go to screw another girl, you're thinking "this will be good experience and keeping my options open!" no, you're thinking about her naked and pumping her, it's that simple.

A decision based on emotion, you are not an exception, and yes, if I were to choose, men make more stupid decisions based on ego and emotion, than women do. You are a prime example of stupid decisions based on emotion, and deludedly you actually think you're the exception, you're the complete opposite of what your perception of yourself is. Ain't that a b**ch?

 

[Rudiger]

No, you think you're an exception as in you're immune to making decisions without emotion, and this is not the case. People tell you you're an a**h** because you are somewhat an exception in that you think it's a smart and controlled decision to risk screwing up a loving relationship, most people who cheat feel bad about it, but you're the exception because your callous ways are borderline psychopathic.

These are clearly 2 different types of exceptions, but you aren't the positive former one.

Fine, I'll let you have it your way and say you are doing it to "gain an experience" (although I clearly think it's bull****) well you're making a stupid decision, which is not thought out, ruled completely by illogical thoughts, that could end your relationship and ruin your life (well, temporarily).

Don't tell me it turned out to be right because of what she did, at the time you regularly made this awful decision, you could have screwed everything up, and you did it on this nonsense decision, which had no logic backing it, because you wanted experiences or whatever.

Also don't revert back to "she'd never find out" when you could have confessed, like you have in the past.

If I want sex, I can just go to a prostitute, which I do sometimes.

Oh my god ed, this sentence is a brain warp.

OK so you never actually really want or seriously care about having sex with regular women, it's "nice" but you just want experiences not based on emotional feelings, but when you do want just sex you find a prostitute? Let me get this completely right, the sexual aspect of a regular woman is irrelevant, it's all 100% based on keeping your options open blah blah, are you seriously thinking this stands up as a point?

Just admit it, you aren't as special as you think you are, you had sex and cheated because you wanted to c*m inside another woman, a decision ruled by emotion, nothing else.

Logical decision making is "I better not have sex with someone else, as I could ruin my relationship, I have confessed to cheating in the past and could do so again" however this total bull**** is "I'm going to c*m in another woman for the experience, and to keep my options open (which never worked)". I don't think you can even fool yourself at this stage, and you seem to have an ability to convince yourself of anything, but at this point you're realising this is a step too far.

Cheating is an emotional, irrational decision, and that's what you did, and will continue to do, afterwards you can pretend to yourself and us on here that you know what you're doing, it's all planned out, but it's nonsense.

 

[Rudiger]

Hahaha! What a cop out. Shows your argument has fallen apart.

Fine! I'm emotional, never claimed otherwise, it's irrelevant. Your decision was not rational, you took a risk on ending a very valuable relationship for no good reason, and if you mean it was for the "experience", well I'll believe you if you mean it's the "experience" of a new vagina and seeing someone naked you've never seen before.

Keep kidding yourself but you know the truth, you could have ****ed up something very important to you, and because of how things worked out you can keep convincing yourself you made the right decision, but it was still stupid at the time...

You are not a robot, you are not an exceptional and controlled thinker, you're a weak human like the rest of us, making stupid irrational decisions based on emotion. In this example with shamelessly cheating, you're actually even more emotional and illogical than the rest of us, you have confessed before and you will again some day, and for some reason you think this all makes you smarter. Bless.

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Honestly, while I might not agree with Fred's actions, they are indeed rational from his point of view. Even if cheating arises from emotional impulses in a lot of situations, that doesn't mean cheating itself is inherently emotional in nature.

Yes if the "point of view" is that of a madman, you are correct.

But seriously I'd like some elaboration here. Fred made an illogical decision that could have ruined his relationship, he's admitted he's confessed to cheating in the past, and he could have done so again this time, why would anyone take such a risk? Just for a short term feeling of orgasming with a new woman. That's completely an emotional decision.

And I'm not even talking about emotional as in he was emotionally connected intellectually with these women, and even though that's a possibility I decided to just remove that possibility. I'm simply talking about the act of sex and the risk he took on, just for a bit of fun.

 

[FWIW]

Wtf h.l. you still believe in love and faithfullness? What loving relationship? Nowadays its just about what maximum "profit"the other person can get from relationship. When she sees she can get more of it somewhere else its done,bye...Freds behaviour is just defense mechanism from woman treating him like crap. When youre bald its hundred time worse. You have not been screwed by women enough in your life apparently. Like many of good looking guys have not. Because their looks provide such big profit for the women they dont dare to treat them like ugly ones.

 

[Rudiger]

What risk? I told girls I was "cheating" in the past, and they wanted to stick with me, thought it didn't matter because it was just sex.

I know myself, and I know why I'm doing this. I'm doing it because I want to use my potential, because I want to live a cool life.

So according to you, I should have been faithful to all my girlfriend, I should have lived an empty life? Because that's what good guys do?

No thanks. I love how some girls tell me it's like I've lived a thousand lives already.

Quite a compliment for someone who has wasted years of his youth because of his hair loss.

F-ck being a good person. Were the girls who told me they just couldn't be with a bald man good persons too?

People all work for their own interest. Even when they try to be a good person, they mostly do it for the recognition.

"Hey look at me, at least I've never cheated!" Good for you, but don't shove it down my throat.

Do you see me encouraging others to adopt my lifestyle here? No? Then why are you trying to convince us to adopt yours?

All you're doing here is trying to reassure yourself that you're right. I don't say I'm right, I'm just saying this lifestyle works for me.

Now that my girlfriend was going to have an abortion without telling me out of the blue, that was pretty unpredictable.

We've talked about this quite a few times now and I've never once mentioned whether I cheat or not, so do you think I haven't just so I can tell others that I don't? These conversations should be the ultimate opportunity to rub in how moral I am, but I haven't (until now technically) so just because you can't understand other people, don't tell me why I decide that it's a wrong decision.

I don't care about you adopting my lifestyle, it's just simple in this debate- you are pretending to be the posterchild of rational thought- yet you make irrational and emotionally charged decisions. It's blatantly hypocritical.

You would say that a woman ****s another guy because that's what women do, they're emotional and fickle. But when you **** other girls? No that's for the experience, it's logical and planned out. Screwing another woman while in a loving relationship to be an experience worth having. As anyone realises past their early 20's, one night stands are effectively meaningless, it's just a bit of excitement, only a dumb *** would risk everything to do it and then convince themself it's for "the experience".

I don't need to reassure myself I'm right, it's blatantly obvious, you're trying to drag it all over the place like you always do, that's why you pointlessly told me I'm getting emotional in this exchange which was a hopelessly desperate response. The bones of the debate still sit there when you're not trying everything you can to get away from them- you made an irrational decision based on the fact you wanted temporary affection and orgasming with a new woman.

That's an emotionally charged decision, not for the long term. Most people who make this decision at least realise taking that risk is stupid, but you have a hard time admitting this, because you'll want to do it again in future.

Wtf h.l. you still believe in love and faithfullness? What loving relationship? Nowadays its just about what maximum "profit"the other person can get from relationship. When she sees she can get more of it somewhere else its done,bye...Freds behaviour is just defense mechanism from woman treating him like crap. When youre bald its hundred time worse. You have not been screwed by women enough in your life apparently. Like many of good looking guys have not. Because their looks provide such big profit for the women they dont dare to treat them like ugly ones.

Well, in ed's own words it was a loving relationship, everything was perfect at the time and going really well. So there's your answer, that's literally the loving relationship I was referring to.

In this mental framework, he felt that the negative connotations from the act of cheating were meaningful only in so far as his girlfriend was actually able to find out. By having sex with other women and being very nice to his gf when he was with her, he would maximize his happiness as well as hers. That's a classic rational and utility-maximizing decision, one that you could use in philosophy classes should you desire to.

Thank you, but as the risk of her finding out is not worth the reward (as he said, it was just for a bit of experience, and sex is nice with new women but not even "everything") this screams illogical decision making. Like I keep saying, he's broken down and confessed to cheating before, and for no good reason, why wouldn't he do it again? Then we'd see happiness jeopardized, that the decision didn't make sense in his mental framework.

He made a serious decision for something that didn't even really matter, that makes no sense. He also did it to keep "options open" but once his relationship ended, he had no other options. Can he even admit it was pointless in that sense? No, he's faultless of course.

 

[Rudiger]

Yes I'm completely staying away from the morality, Ian keeps reverting to it but I'm not falling for that trap. I am strictly sticking to whether this is a rational decision not based on emotion.

And like I say, ed's excuses for the "rewards" aren't at all compelling. He apparently doesn't even care that much for the sex, so presumably this is not having a massive impact on his happiness generally and his happiness in how he treats his partner. It is nowhere near as detrimental as you are making it out to be, it's fairly irrelevant in terms of being a positive thing for their relationship.

I know where you're coming from and we've all seen this as an excuse, "I cheated to keep my sanity and relationship going- I cheated for the kids" OK that's another more rational thought to be poked through for another day, but when it comes to this situation with Fred, I'm not seeing anything, at all, that points towards the necessity to cheat. I'm seeing moderate risk, very low reward.

Keep in mind that probably 90% of people who cheat will get caught before they'd ever admit it, so as Ian has confessed in the past, this puts him in more of a "high risk" category than the majority of people.

So basically, there was little to no long-term value to sleeping with other women, "experience" is a flaky excuse and apparently it wasn't even that sex is so important. So why do it? Absolutely irrational on all fronts, in fact I'm beginning to wonder if it's low reward or absolutely no reward at all.

I still think he's lying, he did it for the sex, so that was the reward, quite simply and obviously, but he'll keep insisting it wasn't for that either.

 

[Rudiger]

You had many options at this time? Didn't you already have only 20 partners at this time (not counting escorts), so you had your girlfriend and what, a handful of other women? So then there's like 15 left, you once talked about that time you "had several girlfriends" so that leaves us in single figures, and there was a handful in Thailand correct? And "multiple" short term relationships, as well as the other, I'm assuming numerous one-night stands you got through, and the numbers just don't add up, simple as.

Don't give me a "rational" decision as an excuse that it makes all your decisions rational. Cheating definitely isn't one, and when you do get caught in future and it ruins everything, you can think back on this exchange.

But more realistically as a narcissist you'll still insist it was a rational idea to ruin a relationship for sex you don't even really care for. ****ing genius, that is.

 

[blackg]

Also, could we please have a custom restriction in place to limit h.l.'s posts to one paragraph only? I feel it would make things a lot better for everyone.

Seriously.. This has to happen!
h.l. sometimes has some interseting things to say but it's usually lost in the endless length of his posts.

Sorry h.l. but I skip most of what you write.
It just goes on... and on.... and on.

 

[Rudiger]

Summary: Cheating when you're in a solid relationship is an irrational action based on emotion/cumming in a new exciting person. Especially now it's been revealed that the sex wasn't even that important, so he decided to take a huge risk for very little reward.

I would say this but I simply don't think it can be argued. As the example I gave before, someone who "cheats for the kids" is one thing, and that's still questionable, but this thing with Fred, I'm not seeing any reason for it, at all. There's no logical excuse or reasoning for taking the risk he's taking.

"For experience" lolololol. Yeah meeting new people and networking! Right on.

 

[Rudiger]

That part wasn't a "tactic" to win a debate Fred, that's already won and it's not my debating skills, it's irrefutable that it's a stupid decision that you made, based on weak human emotions. It played no part in making your relationship any happier, you just felt you had to because- well I don't even know why any more. It wasn't for the sex apparently, it was for "experience"? I mean have you ever tried mountain biking or kayaking or something? Not sticking your dick in other women and potentially ruining your relationship.

So yes, I'm not trying a tactic, it's just simply that you will feel like a douche when you get caught, and it's irrelevant that some girl didn't leave you over it, the next one might. And that's the point, you're putting yourself in a precarious situation for no good reason, it's illogical and not based on long term planning, simple as that.

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My god, looks like zircon would rather leave the forum over trying to defend your thought process any further!

Of course I'm half-joking, but I wonder what his next response would have been. It's pretty clear at this point that you took a risk for no reward, and now he's realised this, it's hard to argue the logic and sense in that, you must admit.

 

[cocohot]

That part wasn't a "tactic" to win a debate Fred, that's already won and it's not my debating skills, it's irrefutable that it's a stupid decision that you made, based on weak human emotions. It played no part in making your relationship any happier, you just felt you had to because- well I don't even know why any more. It wasn't for the sex apparently, it was for "experience"? I mean have you ever tried mountain biking or kayaking or something? Not sticking your dick in other women and potentially ruining your relationship.

So yes, I'm not trying a tactic, it's just simply that you will feel like a douche when you get caught, and it's irrelevant that some girl didn't leave you over it, the next one might. And that's the point, you're putting yourself in a precarious situation for no good reason, it's illogical and not based on long term planning, simple as that.

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My god, looks like zircon would rather leave the forum over trying to defend your thought process any further!

Of course I'm half-joking, but I wonder what his next response would have been. It's pretty clear at this point that you took a risk for no reward, and now he's realised this, it's hard to argue the logic and sense in that, you must admit.

He left because after he insulted me I reminded him he's going bald. I know you hate that too, I only did it because he called me a "miserable freak".

lol

He made sure to make a big dramatic thread first though.

ned: What you did was immoral but we live in amoral times. Seems like people who are "nice" and play by the rules are just suckers nowadays. In a bizarre way your girlfriends betrayal vindicates your argument.