S5 Cream: Does spironolactone Have Any Efficacy In Male Pattern Baldness?

[Afro_Vacancy]

I've been using spironolactone cream for 8 years and I never had any sides caused by spironolactone. I used Dr. Lee cream, S5, and wholesale 5% spironolactone cream. If it goes systemic it's in such a small dose it won't cause any sides. My blood tests are all normal.

I experienced sides right after I started using RU a couple of weeks ago.

What was your dose of RU?

 

[rcom440]

What was your dose of RU?

I was applying less than .5ml of 3% RU. It was around .33ml
After a couple of days I started having testicular pain. It was mild pain but quite uncomfortable. I think I will start RU again and see how it goes. I still have entire bottle of Kane's solution.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

I was applying less than .5ml of 3% RU. It was around .33ml
After a couple of days I started having testicular pain. It was mild pain but quite uncomfortable. I think I will start RU again and see how it goes. I still have entire bottle of Kane's solution.

Interesting.

Testimonials I've read suggest that response to RU is dose-dependent.

You were applying ~10 mg/day, the smallest dose I've heard anybody applying.

 

[That Guy]

You're not being consistent man.

Do you have PFS or not?

If spironolactone actually lowered your T levels by two thirds, then it's an awful choice.

The way that I read it is that it could be the PFS prevented him from losing any more hair, or that it could be that the topical anti-androgen really does work.

I'm suspect the latter is the case since as far as I know, people who get PFS usually still continue to go bald.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

The way that I read it is that it could be the PFS prevented him from losing any more hair, or that it could be that the topical anti-androgen really does work.

I'm suspect the latter is the case since as far as I know, people who get PFS usually still continue to go bald.

How well do we even know that? PFS seems to be a cluster of conditions with variable symptoms. Also, many don't have detectable drops in hormone levels. @Admin does.

Here's a summary of what I've read from admin over the years.

- He quit finasteride years ago, he had sides and ignored them for a long time, probably too long, and eventually quit;
- He's had PFS since. Not sure which symptoms. His T levels are way down, his E levels might be way up as well. Note that the two thirds decrease in T levels might be sufficient for him to keep his hair, regardless of additional treatments;
- He has said that he tells people "propecia works great" as he's kept his hair in spite of being off it for years, I think he's been off for nine years;
- When he quit finasteride he went on revivogen+topical spironolactone. He says they have allowed him to keep his hair.
- On the previous page, in post #10, he says the topical spironolactone may have lowered his androgen levels. That would imply the catastrophic sides that admin is experiencing.

So his story is not clear, which may be reflecting genuine uncertainty in his situation. That's understandable, the science in this area is sh*t and poorly researched, so most of us are left guessing.

But if Admin really thinks that his use of spironolactone contributed to his 70% drop in testosterone levels, he should really say that as a caveat, as that suggests catastrophic sides.

 

[tjnpdx]

The way that I read it is that it could be the PFS prevented him from losing any more hair, or that it could be that the topical anti-androgen really does work.

I'm suspect the latter is the case since as far as I know, people who get PFS usually still continue to go bald.

I also tended to read @Admin's post in this way. He took propecia and the use has altered his T levels. This also seems to correlate with having PFS.

 

[tjnpdx]

I've been using spironolactone cream for 8 years and I never had any sides caused by spironolactone. I used Dr. Lee cream, S5, and wholesale 5% spironolactone cream. If it goes systemic it's in such a small dose it won't cause any sides. My blood tests are all normal.

I experienced sides right after I started using RU a couple of weeks ago.

Has it worked well for maintenance for you? This is really all I'm looking for right now. Good maintenance, no finasteride, and some bought time would keep me happy for the time being.

 

[CapiLarry]

I'm curious as to its consistency. Does it leave your hair greasy or is it light weight and absorb well? Does it relieve 'the itch'?

 

[rcom440]

Has it worked well for maintenance for you? This is really all I'm looking for right now. Good maintenance, no finasteride, and some bought time would keep me happy for the time being.

It does work for me but my hairloss is very-very slow. I rememberwhen I started applying 5% spironolactone cream, right away I noticed that I was shedding less hair. I use it twice a day.
I do believe it slows down hairloss.

There are some studies backing it. They still should be somewhere on this forum.

 

[rcom440]

I'm curious as to its consistency. Does it leave your hair greasy or is it light weight and absorb well? Does it relieve 'the itch'?

It doesn't leave hair very greasy and it gets absorbed very quick. I would say after 5-8 minutes it's all gone and it leaves skin quite dry.

 

[rcom440]

Interesting.

Testimonials I've read suggest that response to RU is dose-dependent.

You were applying ~10 mg/day, the smallest dose I've heard anybody applying.

I actually were using it only on my hairline so I didn't need that much to cover that area of the scalp. I was also quite surprised that I got sides. I definitely don't think it was psychological as I was very busy at work and i didn't pay too much attention to it but I did noticed testicular pain. it felt like blue balls; quite uncomfortable.

I'm thinking about starting it again to see if I get same side effect.

 

[That Guy]

Here are a few studies done on topical Spironolactone on DHT. None of them reported any side effects.

http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/2972662

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3411088

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2972662

 

[That Guy]

So anyway, I've been reading about it some more

To be all skeptical and cynical about it is really doing yourself a disservice. There are plenty of snake oils out there you can play around with if you prefer. Topical Spironolactone is absolutely *not* in that group at all.

I feel that the skepticism is warranted. I can find plenty of scientific studies that say "spironolactone binds to DHT and doesn't go systemic", but I can't find anything that says by how much it lowers scalp DHT or how well it maintains hair. I also find it really suspicious that they've confirmed this for over 30 years, but not one company has jumped at the opportunity to turn this into a commercial product that would surely defeat Propecia.

but you can buy it from a company who has the cream made in China, with no ingredients labeled "because customs"...Yeah, nothing shady about that...

Topping it off is that the Admin championing the cream has PFS and severely lowered T, women usually take it at a high dose orally, etc. and even then the results are mixed. As it currently stands in this thread, it is impossible to verify that anyone who hasn't balded further is due to using S5 cream or other topical spiros. It could easily be that Admin's PFS is responsible and that other guy wasn't destined to be NW7. I can't seem to find any one person who has been verified to have maintained for years due to topical spironolactone alone.

So it won't kill you to try it, it's probably not a snake oil, but it is definitely not in the same league as finasteride and minoxidil — its efficacy is definitely questionable.

 

[RatherGoBlindThanSeeItGo]

So anyway, I've been reading about it some more



I feel that the skepticism is warranted. I can find plenty of scientific studies that say "spironolactone binds to DHT and doesn't go systemic", but I can't find anything that says by how much it lowers scalp DHT or how well it maintains hair. I also find it really suspicious that they've confirmed this for over 30 years, but not one company has jumped at the opportunity to turn this into a commercial product that would surely defeat Propecia.

So it won't kill you to try it, it's probably not a snake oil, but it is definitely not in the same league as finasteride and minoxidil — its efficacy is definitely questionable.

There is a pretty logical reason for that. Clinical trials for efficacy and safety cost a sh*t ton of money. The thing about spironolactone cream, and you can find this on google, is that the patent for a spironolactone topical has already existed since the 80s. No big farma is going to invest in a product if they can't get the exclusive rights to sell it like merck had with propecia and upjohn with rogaine. That's why we'll never know how spironolactone cream compares to finasteride and minoxidil.

 

[That Guy]

The thing about spironolactone cream, and you can find this on google, is that the patent for a spironolactone topical has already existed since the 80s.

and yet the individual/company with that patent didn't bother to even try to turn their effective hairloss cream into a commercial product or sell that patent for billions of dollars to some company? One that could've been out years before Propecia?

That's why we'll never know how spironolactone cream compares to finasteride and minoxidil.

There is more data speaking to the effects of Nizoral on hairloss than there is about spironolactone. People were willing to spend a lot of money studying whether a patented, $10 shampoo works on hairloss, but not on a compound that had already been shown to have an inhibiting affect on DHT for more than a decade?

That doesn't add up.

 

[Nadester]

Would the @Admin care to show us some before after pics??

 

[RatherGoBlindThanSeeItGo]

and yet the individual/company with that patent didn't bother to even try to turn their effective hairloss cream into a commercial product or sell that patent for billions of dollars to some company? One that could've been out years before Propecia?



There is more data speaking to the effects of Nizoral on hairloss than there is about spironolactone. People were willing to spend a lot of money studying whether a patented, $10 shampoo works on hairloss, but not on a compound that had already been shown to have an inhibiting affect on DHT for more than a decade?

That doesn't add up.

IIRC it was patented as an acne treatment, not hair loss. I haven't seen any published studies about nizoral and couldn't find any so if you have any links I'd like to read them. Otherwise I stand by what I said. It's expensive to fund a trial and then have the paper reviewed and published. From a pragmatic perspective I understand why nobody's interested in pursuing it.

Until someone does it's really impossible to guess how effective it is, except that it's not a miracle cure and I think it's probably not as effective as finasteride, but if it really has no systemic effects (I've read about people like Admin who say they had their testosterone tested pre and during spironolactone usage and said their testosterone levels dropped pretty significantly) then any efficacy would be well worth it for someone like me, since finasteride works very well for me but it affects my libido and causes glands under my nipple to enlarge which makes it a bit of a hazard.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

and yet the individual/company with that patent didn't bother to even try to turn their effective hairloss cream into a commercial product or sell that patent for billions of dollars to some company? One that could've been out years before Propecia?



There is more data speaking to the effects of Nizoral on hairloss than there is about spironolactone. People were willing to spend a lot of money studying whether a patented, $10 shampoo works on hairloss, but not on a compound that had already been shown to have an inhibiting affect on DHT for more than a decade?

That doesn't add up.

Companies can't patent spironolactone for hair loss (I think) so there's no incentive to properly research it. Same with saw palmetto for which we all we have are some bad studies.

The supplements industry is complete sh*t, a really deep cesspool of pseudoscience. We're talking about hair loss and spironolactone here but we can be having exactly the same discussion for any bodypart and any combination of supplements, herbs, compounds, etc. Be certain that whatever problem(s) you are having in your life there is no end to expensive and poorly substantiated advice waiting for you.

ETA: That said, spironolactone seems like reasonable speculation, there's data IIRC on alfatradiol being of modest benefit, and tempol seems like reasonable speculation.

 

[Admin]

@That Guy

It's extremely easy for people sit in their living rooms, play armchair chemist, and call "BS" on everything.

I've been doing this 17 years and for people to be bitching out topical spironolactone is absolutely astounding to me. Everybody already knows that Finasteride and Minoxidli and Nizoral are the big three. You haven't educated anyone by repeating that tired old mantra.

The simple fact is, that there is another class of treatments that have "Logical Science" backing them. Its my job to give people options outside of finasteride and minoxidil so that they don't go buying Nioxin or one of the other million total scams out there.

To call into question whether the manufacturer is lying to people and sending fake product is offensive. As a troll, you expect others to back up their claims in support of topical spironolactone, but you don't have to back up your claims against it. You can just act skeptical and kill everyone's optimism with one well-placed bit of FUD.

So to be fair, since you have now questioned the validity of the ingredients, you will be required to present scientific evidence backing your claim, just as you expect the same from everyone else. If you are unable to provide evidence from a reputable lab using an assay (and pay for it yourself) then your comment will be removed as nothing more than FUD. Sound fair?

I trust Dr. Lee's judgment. I trust Bryan Shelton's judgment (heavy proponent of topical spironolactone), and I trust the judgment of literally everyone else in the industry.

Admin

 

[Admin]

But if Admin really thinks that his use of spironolactone contributed to his 70% drop in testosterone levels, he should really say that as a caveat, as that suggests catastrophic sides.

Again, stop trying so hard to create FUD. There is no conspiracy. There is no secret information that you're going to squeeze from me to reveal some dramatic secret. You implied that I'm not qualified to comment on spironolactone helping maintain my hair "because I have PFS". I don't know if I have PFS. I say I have PFS because I guess that's what its called?? I know I had side effects on Propecia. I know my T levels are lower 15 years later. Im also 42. Maybe it was propecia. Maybe it was the spironolactone. Maybe its the fact that im 42 now. Maybe its the plastic water bottles with estrogens in them that I drink out of regularly.

Please stop analyzing all the "things you've gathered from me over the years"... listing all my comments ... as if there's some corruption you're going to reveal, or that you need to 'call me out' again ... There are no "devastating side effects of topical spironolactone" ...

Sorry guys I am just not in the mood today for the dysfunctional personalities and trolling that pervades these forums.

Not interested in it.

Believe what you want. You will anyways.