New Studies Show Vit D Implicated In Hair Loss And Calcipotriol

[Grasshüpfer]

17b-HSD is the enzyme creating testo as well as estrogen, which we both want to be high. Low levels lead to high e1, e3 and dht levels, relative to testo and e2.

minoxidil for example is known to increase 17b hsd locally.

 

[mr_robot]

Best Thread this year probably.



We know that eventually it's really dht directly causing the cells to go senescent.

We also know from the genome wide association study that the vdr is closely related to baldness. So maybe it's the other way round: The vdr messes with the Ar.

Even with my limited knowledge of biology that would certainly make more sense, one interesting observation that supports this is that you need more vitamin D as you get older, especially when you get to over 40.

The DHT/AR angle is pretty much a dead end as far as I'm concerned.

Additionally although this is AA related to VDR that was treated with topical synthetic vitamin D:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3412244/

 

[resu]

In that case it restored the hair cycle function.

 

[Grasshüpfer]

I do think that everything eventually funnels into androgens. Because the only thing that will 100% stop your balding dead straight is castration.

But it's interesting to know the pathways around. Why are some people amazing responders?

 

[Min0]

I do think that everything eventually funnels into androgens. Because the only thing that will 100% stop your balding dead straight is castration.

But it's interesting to know the pathways around. Why are some people amazing responders?

androgens might not be the ONLY factor, they might be a part of a chain of factors . why isn't this clear ?
we can block other parts of the chain instead of removing our balls if it's the case.

 

[mr_robot]

I do think that everything eventually funnels into androgens. Because the only thing that will 100% stop your balding dead straight is castration.

But it's interesting to know the pathways around. Why are some people amazing responders?

Sure I'm not denying the role of androgens, but they are like bullets in a gun. Instead of trying to blocking the fired bullets we should be looking at the guns trigger.

The problem with most pharmaceuticals is that the majority of treatments target symptoms rather than causes because it's both easier and in most cases generates a long term revenue stream.

I haven't seen any truly amazing responders and it seems the best responders seem to be those who's hairs are not 100% miniaturized

 

[Swoop]

we can block other parts of the chain instead of removing our balls if it's the case.

Maybe but it could be multi modal too after AR activation. So Androgenetic Alopecia =

Androgens > AR > A (block A and you have a new angle of stopping Androgenetic Alopecia)

Androgens > AR > A , B , C >


What if it's multi modal after AR activation? Now instead of only blocking A you need to block B and C too.

So then are looking at a regimen of several drugs to stop Androgenetic Alopecia. That is if you can identify the pathways anyway and they are actually safe to modulate.

 

[mr_robot]

Maybe but it could be multi modal too after AR activation. So Androgenetic Alopecia =

Androgens > AR > A (block A and you have a new angle of stopping Androgenetic Alopecia)

Androgens > AR > A
Androgens > AR > B
Androgens > AR > C

What if it's multi modal after AR activation? (Then you are looking at a regimen of several drugs to stop Androgenetic Alopecia. That is if you can identify the pathways anyway and they are actually safe to modulate.

After the AR is always going to difficult in my opinion simply because it seems that after that the body deals with it as an inflammatory response and weakening your immune system is always a shitty solution.

 

[Jk1]

Good to see more research and evidence pointing in this direction of VIT D genetic link, and VIT D receptor underexpression.

I had thought of this idea the scalp as the solar collector a long time ago, and to compensation for low body vit D our hair falls out to get extra sun.. and hence to fix it.. need to jack up Vit D internal and topiclaly but their was no research on this topic back then ..

also what made it clear to me in my trips around the world, northern europe blond and very thin hair vs southern europe.. dark thick hair. In fact on the greek island of rhodos , after i found out that it is one of the sunniest places in the world ! i.e 300 days of sunshine ! if u see the locals.. they have the thickest hair i have ever seen. the hair looks like seriously thick like straw !

So now two issues to address, Firstly we need to fix the under expression of VIT d receptor, so it seems VitA and circumin oileic acids upregulate it. I am also testing wild hair growth, oil and if u see on the ingredients it has VIT D, castor oil and other oils.. so it would not suprise me if this is its mode of action.. the VIT D receptor...

And then increase VIT D topically and internally.

I think Cod liver oil topically is a good option, since it already has VIT A and D in high concentration ! and it has been known to improve wound healing and psoriasis !

Internally i will take 5000 IU per day of D3 starting soon.

 

[Medina]

Good stuff @Grasshüpfer but your hypothesis doesn't explain women.

In my research I found that Estradiol is great at increasing the vitamin D receptor, that would explain why women don't bald as much as men or at least until their levels drop after menopause. And what's the point in white dudes going bald to get more sun exposure if all the receptors in the scalp are being turned off? Vitamin D needs the receptor to work.

Everything about male pattern baldness seems to be a paradox doesn't it.

 

[Medina]

Good to see more research and evidence pointing in this direction of VIT D genetic link, and VIT D receptor underexpression.

I had thought of this idea the scalp as the solar collector a long time ago, and to compensation for low body vit D our hair falls out to get extra sun.. and hence to fix it.. need to jack up Vit D internal and topiclaly but their was no research on this topic back then ..

also what made it clear to me in my trips around the world, northern europe blond and very thin hair vs southern europe.. dark thick hair. In fact on the greek island of rhodos , after i found out that it is one of the sunniest places in the world ! i.e 300 days of sunshine ! if u see the locals.. they have the thickest hair i have ever seen. the hair looks like seriously thick like straw !

So now two issues to address, Firstly we need to fix the under expression of VIT d receptor, so it seems VitA and circumin oileic acids upregulate it. I am also testing wild hair growth, oil and if u see on the ingredients it has VIT D, castor oil and other oils.. so it would not suprise me if this is its mode of action.. the VIT D receptor...

And then increase VIT D topically and internally.

I think Cod liver oil topically is a good option, since it already has VIT A and D in high concentration ! and it has been known to improve wound healing and psoriasis !

Internally i will take 5000 IU per day of D3 starting soon.

Yes we need to look into a regime that improves the VDR, it's probably going to involve Estradiol which will probably give you tits.

You cool with that?

 

[Medina]

I'm getting pretty convinced right now, why wouldn't women be born with the same "hair sensitivity" as their brothers? The answer is that they ARE, they're just protected by the VDR in their scalp, until they get too old or suffer the drop in VDR-boosting hormones. I'm starting to think the reason finasteride works is as much to do with the Estrogen increase as the DHT decrease.

DHT inhibits VDR which causes miniturazation... Am I sounding stupid right now or could this be it?

 

[Grasshüpfer]

Good stuff @Grasshüpfer but your hypothesis doesn't explain women.

In my research I found that Estradiol is great at increasing the vitamin D receptor, that would explain why women don't bald as much as men or at least until their levels drop after menopause. And what's the point in white dudes going bald to get more sun exposure if all the receptors in the scalp are being turned off? Vitamin D needs the receptor to work.

Everything about male pattern baldness seems to be a paradox doesn't it.

It's the other way round. First the receptors were crap and then the white skin and baldness gene developed to compensate.

Well it's crappy broscience anyway.


It probably goes both ways. The lack of vdr likely causes the androgen imbalance over inhibiting 17b hsd and the dht in turn is bad for the vdr.

 

[Medina]

It's the other way round. First the receptors were crap and then the white skin and baldness gene developed to compensate.

Well it's crappy broscience anyway.


What is interesting is that I read vitamin D deficiency causes inflammation, but not related to Androgenetic Alopecia.

And THAT explains the prostaglandins, the lack of VDR in the scalp would cause inflammation.

Isn't prostaglandin D2 an inflammatory response? Like Asthma?

(Apologies if I'm getting ahead of myself right now, I've never had one of these bro-science moments, I'm sure someone will correct me on all this bullshit soon)

 

[Grasshüpfer]

Maybe I should stop debating this and instead get into the sun

 

[resu]

It's not the vitamin D itself, it's the receptors. Once the follicles start to miniaturize, the cycles get shorter and shorter so I imagine the VDR stops signaling the follicles to enter anagen phase because the hairs turned to vellus. In the alopecia areata the follicles don't get miniaturized, the follicles just stop producing hair.

 

[Kevand]

Good stuff @Grasshüpfer but your hypothesis doesn't explain women.

In my research I found that Estradiol is great at increasing the vitamin D receptor, that would explain why women don't bald as much as men or at least until their levels drop after menopause. And what's the point in white dudes going bald to get more sun exposure if all the receptors in the scalp are being turned off? Vitamin D needs the receptor to work.

Everything about male pattern baldness seems to be a paradox doesn't it.

Interesting I just read this article about vitamin D.

Vitamin D Supplements May Raise Sex Hormone Levels in Men

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/880957

"Dr Lerchbaum reported the results in men with normal levels of testosterone: "We found no significant effect on testosterone levels in the healthy men (P > .05), which surprised us; likewise that there was an increase in estradiol. When we obtain the results in the low-testosterone men we hope we will see an effect. However, in our men with normal testosterone levels we did see a decrease in SHBG levels and an increase in estradiol levels."

Presenting the initial results of the first study of its kind, lead investigator Elisabeth Lerchbaum, MD, from the Medical University of Graz, Austria, remarked that looking at the metabolism of vitamin D could open up new avenues of treatment. "Vitamin D supplementation might be a safe and affordable treatment option in polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS) or might support couples who want to have children."

 

[IvanXproject]

Good to see more research and evidence pointing in this direction of VIT D genetic link, and VIT D receptor underexpression.

I had thought of this idea the scalp as the solar collector a long time ago, and to compensation for low body vit D our hair falls out to get extra sun.. and hence to fix it.. need to jack up Vit D internal and topiclaly but their was no research on this topic back then ..

also what made it clear to me in my trips around the world, northern europe blond and very thin hair vs southern europe.. dark thick hair. In fact on the greek island of rhodos , after i found out that it is one of the sunniest places in the world ! i.e 300 days of sunshine ! if u see the locals.. they have the thickest hair i have ever seen. the hair looks like seriously thick like straw !

So now two issues to address, Firstly we need to fix the under expression of VIT d receptor, so it seems VitA and circumin oileic acids upregulate it. I am also testing wild hair growth, oil and if u see on the ingredients it has VIT D, castor oil and other oils.. so it would not suprise me if this is its mode of action.. the VIT D receptor...

And then increase VIT D topically and internally.

I think Cod liver oil topically is a good option, since it already has VIT A and D in high concentration ! and it has been known to improve wound healing and psoriasis !

Internally i will take 5000 IU per day of D3 starting soon.

What about vitamin D3 injections to the scalp? has anyone ever tried that?

 

[Min0]

this thread is funny to me because i lost a shitload of hair in the year i took a vit D supplement, i threw it in the trash because i thaught it has something to do with my hairloss.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

this thread is funny to me because i lost a shitload of hair in the year i took a vit D supplement, i threw it in the trash because i thaught it has something to do with my hairloss.

What dosage did you take?