Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[DHTcel]

What are you saying, DHTcel? The standard treatment includes HGH, MK667, letrozole, MSM among others. Three of which increases testosterone. So can we not say that to increase height we need to increase test and reduce (or demolish) estrogen? (BTW, not gonna do it ; love my hair more)

HGH and mk677 increase Growth hormone and have no effect on testosterone levels or estrogen levels.

 

[I'mme]

HGH and mk677 increase Growth hormone and have no effect on testosterone levels or estrogen levels.

Gosh... So can I take mk667 without adversely affecting my hair?

 

[Ikarus]

How about leaving cypro and just estrodiol, dutasteride and oral min?

Estradiol has to be used at sufficient amounts to be used without an anti-androgen, in which significant feminisation would occur.

 

[Ikarus]

wikipedia says:
Bicalutamide, sold under the brand name Casodexamong others, is an antiandrogen medication that is primarily used to treat prostate cancer.[11] It is typically used together with a gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) analogue or surgical removal of the testicles to treat advanced prostate cancer.[12][11][13]Bicalutamide may also be used to treat excessive hair growth in women,[14] as a component of feminizing hormone therapy for transgender women,[15] to treat early puberty in boys,[16] and to prevent overly long-lasting erections in men.[17] It is taken by mouth.[11]

so doesnt bica affect masculanity too? not to mention the erection side it could have...how has it been for you?

Bicalutamide reverses the effects of puberty, rather than cause feminisation. It gives a neotenic appearance; it makes you look youthful. It reduces sebum production significantly, leading to less skin imperfections. It also leads to smoother skin!

 

[DHTcel]

Gosh... So can I take mk667 without adversely affecting my hair?

yeah

 

[itchymadscalp]

Frankly, I do not understand what the problem is. no one has yet died from such regimes. The fact is that all these drugs are of different actions. each works in its own way. I do not even exceed the recommended rate. for example, flutamide can be taken 3 times a day at 250 mg. Cyproterone maximum permitted dose is generally 400 mg. in fact, I did not add recommendations that are allowed. in the future, I am going to reduce cyproterone to 25 mg of bicalutamide to 50 mg and flutamide to 250 mg. but testosterone must be at the feminine level for feminization. I still have it.

You were talking about taking Cyproterone + spironolactone + Bica + Flutamide + Fina + Duta............ all those drugs at high dose.

You can have testosterone at feminine levels with normal dose of CPA + Estradiol. Or if you want the best AA take Lupron and add some Bicalutamide... But I think its overkill.

Nevermind. It's your body, you can destroy it if you want, but I would not recommend it.

 

[itchymadscalp]

when you really want your hair you are ready to go for anything.

Really ? I don't think so, at least when it's not necessary. You dont need to take 5-7 antiandrogens at high dose to achieve that goal. You will just end at the hospital.
Try something like Cypro 12.5-25mg + 6-8mg Estrofem under supervision of an endocrinologist. If it's doens't work try something stronger, maybe ... or wait (that's what I'm doing, expecting my regimen will finally be working).

 

[DHTcel]

Really ? I don't think so, at least when it's not necessary. You dont need to take 5-7 antiandrogens at high dose to achieve that goal. You will just end at the hospital.
Try something like Cypro 12.5-25mg + 6-8mg Estrofem under supervision of an endocrinologist. If it's doens't work try something stronger, maybe ... or wait (that's what I'm doing, expecting my regimen will finally be working).

he could literally do goserelin + 12.5mg bicalutamide and that would be a more effective regimen then doing 7-8 drugs that counteract the effects of each other and are used at doses that will cause MAJOR hyperandrogenicity i.e. 20mg finasteride, I'm just trying to help you out, I don't want to see your health be at risk

 

[keepcoolmybabies]

Frankly, I do not understand what the problem is. no one has yet died from such regimes.

Do you ever get any blood tests to check your liver enzymes? Flutamide has been shown to produce hepatotoxicity on many studies. Also, considering you are already using bica I don't really understand the redundancy of using flutamide simultaneously.

 

[Obsessive]

that isn't entirely true

Paging Dr. Bridgeburn:
7 months of consistent topical e2; 1-2 times a day. Still losing ground at temples, hairline, and top. I can confirm that I was using enough e2 on the scalp to keep my blood estrogen levels in the high range for all this time, which tells me that local saturation at follicles must have been achieved. Also, I tracked my free T and confirmed that the e2 treatment reduced it by 50-60% over these months. Can you think of any reason to continue topical e2 at this point?

 

[LEXUS]

you do realize that using cyproterone/spironolactone in combination with an NSAA basically renders them (bica/flut) useless right?

"All medically used SAAs are weak partial agonists of the AR rather than silent antagonists, and for this reason, possess inherent androgenicity in addition to their predominantly antiandrogenic actions.[75][76][77] In accordance, although CPA produces feminization of and ambiguous genitalia in male fetuses when administered to pregnant animals,[90] it has been found to produce masculinization of the genitalia of female fetuses of pregnant animals.[76] Additionally, all SAAs, including CPA and spironolactone, have been found to stimulate and significantly accelerate the growth of androgen-sensitive tumors in the absence of androgens, whereas NSAAs like flutamide have no effect and can in fact antagonize the stimulation caused by SAAs.[76][77][91] Accordingly, unlike NSAAs, the addition of CPA to castration has never been found in any controlled study to prolong survival in prostate cancer to a greater extent than castration alone.[76] In fact, a meta-analysis found that the addition of CPA to castration actually reduces the long-term effectiveness of ADT and causes an increase in mortality (mainly due to cardiovascular complications induced by CPA).[92] Also, there are two case reports of spironolactone actually accelerating progression of metastatic prostate cancer in castrated men treated with it for heart failure, and for this reason, spironolactone has been regarded as contraindicated in patients with prostate cancer.[93][94] Because of their intrinsic capacity to activate the AR, SAAs are incapable of maximally depriving the body of androgen signaling, and will always maintain at least some degree of AR activation.[77][91]"

hope this helped

I don't understand anything then. reduces ... increases ... there are many examples of who raised their hair on cyproterone. for example bridgeburn. why then everyone is so afraid of cyproterone. I heard that flutamide is generally poison to the liver. but no one has died yet. increases AR? but why then when I added spironolactone to cyproterone, my results immediately became better. the only thing I noticed if you increase the dose very much, then the opposite effect appears. I noticed this when I began taking 300 mg of ziproterone and 600 mg of spironolactone. Now I decided to change my mode. I have long studied how each medicine acts on the body. studied all the side effects. Avodart and flutamide are very harmful. I immediately feel it. Now I have changed my mode a bit. because as I said high doses do the opposite effect. even if you start taking a lot of estradiol there will be the opposite effect. the body simply does not take it then. so my mode is now like this.

25 mg CPA
300 mg spironolactone
3 mg ESTRADIOL
10 mg FINASTERIDE
1 dose ESTROGEL
1 dose MIN on HAIR


THIS IS PERSONALLY MY OBSERVATIONS

I find spironolactone effective if added to cyproterone. Spironolactone turns off stress hormones and other androgens that cyproterone does not touch. while finasteride turns off only type 2 alpha reductase anyway, it works better for me than avodart.

I think any drug with an increase in dose gives the opposite effect. even estradiol.

 

[I'mme]

I don't understand anything then. reduces ... increases ... there are many examples of who raised their hair on cyproterone. for example bridgeburn. why then everyone is so afraid of cyproterone. I heard that flutamide is generally poison to the liver. but no one has died yet. increases AR? but why then when I added spironolactone to cyproterone, my results immediately became better. the only thing I noticed if you increase the dose very much, then the opposite effect appears. I noticed this when I began taking 300 mg of ziproterone and 600 mg of spironolactone. Now I decided to change my mode. I have long studied how each medicine acts on the body. studied all the side effects. Avodart and flutamide are very harmful. I immediately feel it. Now I have changed my mode a bit. because as I said high doses do the opposite effect. even if you start taking a lot of estradiol there will be the opposite effect. the body simply does not take it then. so my mode is now like this.

25 mg CPA
300 mg spironolactone
3 mg ESTRADIOL
10 mg FINASTERIDE
1 dose ESTROGEL
1 dose MIN on HAIR


THIS IS PERSONALLY MY OBSERVATIONS

I find spironolactone effective if added to cyproterone. Spironolactone turns off stress hormones and other androgens that cyproterone does not touch. while finasteride turns off only type 2 alpha reductase anyway, it works better for me than avodart.

I think any drug with an increase in dose gives the opposite effect. even estradiol.

Dude, I'm still waiting for your before and after pics

 

[I'mme]

Gosh... So can I take mk667 without adversely affecting my hair?

@DHTcel did you just realise we've found the best way to preserve muscles and bmd while on anti-androgens?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2757071/

 

[DHTcel]

@DHTcel did you just realise we've found the best way to preserve muscles and bmd while on anti-androgens?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2757071/

yeah, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20950306

 

[Obsessive]

yeah, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20950306

Interesting that blocking AR receptors in muscles doesn't lead to muscle loss. I guess I need to research this more to understand. No matter how much T is present, I don't understand how muscle mass won't be affected if T cannot bind.

 

[DHTcel]

Interesting that blocking AR receptors in muscles doesn't lead to muscle loss. I guess I need to research this more to understand. No matter how much T is present, I don't understand how muscle mass won't be affected if T cannot bind.

different parts of the body have different circulating concentrations of testosterone so bicalutamide cannot effect all parts of the body the same

for the testicles for example: "Bicalutamide monotherapy seems to have minimal effect on testicular spermatogenesis, testicular ultrastructure, and certain aspects of male fertility.[191][192][82][191]This seems to be because testosterone levels in the testes (where ≈95% of testosterone in males is produced) are extremely high (up to 200-fold higher than circulating levels) and only a small fraction (less than 10%) of the normal levels of testosterone in the testes are actually necessary to maintain spermatogenesis.[193][194][194][195]As a result, bicalutamide appears to not be able to compete with testosterone in this sole part of the body to an extent sufficient to considerably interfere with androgen signaling and function."

this is the same case with muscle cells

 

[Obsessive]

different parts of the body have different circulating concentrations of testosterone so bicalutamide cannot effect all parts of the body the same

for the testicles for example: "Bicalutamide monotherapy seems to have minimal effect on testicular spermatogenesis, testicular ultrastructure, and certain aspects of male fertility.[191][192][82][191]This seems to be because testosterone levels in the testes (where ≈95% of testosterone in males is produced) are extremely high (up to 200-fold higher than circulating levels) and only a small fraction (less than 10%) of the normal levels of testosterone in the testes are actually necessary to maintain spermatogenesis.[193][194][194][195]As a result, bicalutamide appears to not be able to compete with testosterone in this sole part of the body to an extent sufficient to considerably interfere with androgen signaling and function."

this is the same case with muscle cells

What about scalp follicles? We know it is useful for body hair but is there evidence that bica is active in scalp tissue? If all this turns out to be accurate, this will be huge. Do we know of more than one or two success stories with bica? Ein is one I'm aware of. Is Mauve still around?

 

[I'mme]

different parts of the body have different circulating concentrations of testosterone so bicalutamide cannot effect all parts of the body the same

for the testicles for example: "Bicalutamide monotherapy seems to have minimal effect on testicular spermatogenesis, testicular ultrastructure, and certain aspects of male fertility.[191][192][82][191]This seems to be because testosterone levels in the testes (where ≈95% of testosterone in males is produced) are extremely high (up to 200-fold higher than circulating levels) and only a small fraction (less than 10%) of the normal levels of testosterone in the testes are actually necessary to maintain spermatogenesis.[193][194][194][195]As a result, bicalutamide appears to not be able to compete with testosterone in this sole part of the body to an extent sufficient to considerably interfere with androgen signaling and function."

this is the same case with muscle cells

It is also important to note that this is all with 150mg, whereas only 50mg or at max 100mg would do for hair loss.

Moreover, most of these studies must have been done on relatively older people.

Now, even if it does result in muscle loss, I'd simply take mk677.

 

[I'mme]

What about scalp follicles? We know it is useful for body hair but is there evidence that bica is active in scalp tissue? If all this turns out to be accurate, this will be huge. Do we know of more than one or two success stories with bica? Ein is one I'm aware of. Is Mauve still around?

Nah. I texted him on reddit, no reply as of yet.

 

[Obsessive]

Nah. I texted him on reddit, no reply as of yet.

DHTcell: I guess you're the test dummy for bica at the moment. Has anything changed since adding it (shedding, side effect, etc.)? I, and others, are following your progress so let us all know what's happening.