My Zix Experience - How B6 And Zinc Have Saved My Hair

[EndlessPossibilities]

The study never specified if it was the zink itself with the anti-androgenic effects. This implies its rather the sulfate (zinc salt) thats doing the magic. Because theres definetely less zinc in zinc sulfate than...actual zinc. I can buy zinc solutions with very low molecular weights, which would make skin penetration much easier.
Either way, i can buy like 500g of it for like 25€. Seeing how both the studies and worm use very low amounts, this is going to last me for the next 5 years lol.
Worm uses 10-20mg of zinc sulfate and 3-6mg of b6. I wonder if higher doses would yield better results

@Haironnu just buy the powder

Bruh you serious.

that’s a quote straight from the study. Also in bph they found significantly reduced zinc levels than in controls. And in bph the prostate expresses high levels of dht.

“At high concentrations, zinc could completely inhibit the enzyme activity. Azelaic acid was also a potent inhibitor of 5 alpha-reductase;”

 

[Moosey]

@EndlessPossibilities Then why is everyone making a fuss about sulfate heptahydrate, if theres less zinc in these formulas than actual, pure zinc? Sulfate also has a higher molecular weight than most of the liqueid zinc solutions i can buy, making it less potent because its harder to penetrate the skin.
Its completely contradictory. Im not trying to debate over it, i just dont see the logic behind all of it

 

[jenn33]

Hi Everyone,

Ive mentioned it on a few threads here, to stop DHT, I use a mix of vitamin B6 (p5p) and Zinc (sulfate) mixed with ethyl alcohol (70%) and distilled water that I topically rub on my scalp. It was invented by a poster named Joe, dating back to at least 2005 that I discovered on the hairlosshelp website.

While I cant claim it's as effective as finasteride, in my personal experience over the last 11+ years of using it I am convinced it has stopped me me from going bald. I'll give you my story and I'll follow up by posting the formula.

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My Story
--

I am 39 y/o, and started my losing my hair around 18 back in 1995, when i noticed my hairline which used to be a fortress of hair, looked a tiny bit thinner. I used to be that guy who was voted as having the best head of hair in my high school. Anyhow, I chalked it up to wearing a hat, until about a year later, when I began to get a crazy itchy scalp in my first year of university. At that point, being 19, I noticed my hair started shedding like crazy, 200 hairs, it would fall on my textbooks, my notepads, i would shake my hair out and 60 hairs would fall out with little effort - I was freaking out for months, staring at my hair for hours a day, I was compulsive. My first effort was to control the itch which was driving me crazy, tar shampoos, selsum blue, H&S, none of it worked. my scalp was red, inflammed, and was excreting puss which would dry into yellow crusts. I was totally depressed seeing my hair go down the drain. Eventually I found a hippy derm who recommended zinc (25 mgs gluconat), that helped me with the itch considerably, and the shedding decreased, even though i was still losing.

Eventually I found another great derm (who was experiencing hair loss himself), who put me on minoxidil + retin a, and eventually finasteride in 97 (I believe), which was not really known at the time. Eventually things stabilized, and by my 3rd year of university I had great hair again.

The one thing that got to me is the sides. I had trouble with words, felt tongue tied, I got depressed, felt mentally slow and confused (i.e. brain fog), . It was like I was watching my life through a window. I had soft wood and low libido, but sex still felt amazing. My muscle mass decreased and I felt feminine. But I had great hair, looked great and had no trouble meeting women. I never developed any significant facial hair even at 39 (which i should have according to my dad's side), and my body hair (legs and arms) thinned. I attribute this to finasteride messing with hormones during the last stage of me becoming an adult. Life wasnt great because I was depressed, but I had a good job and looked great. I relied on my good looks, which I knew were fleeting and unsustainable.

Fast forward to when I was 27; after getting dumped by my girlfriend that I lived with, I was on a business trip and forgot to take my finasteride with me. After a few days of not being on it, I felt like a cloud was lifted from my head. I knew, having experimented a little before, that it was due to a lack of finasteride. I felt the best I had felt in years (pre finasteride). It was at this point I said F' it, and that if after a month, my hair started to fall, I would jump back on finasteride. Sure enough after a month it started to fall and fast, but I felt so good, that I refused to go back to finasteride. I believe my depression and moodiness drove my ex away, so I was determined to feel good from that point on. I had more energy, thought much more clearly, and was wayyyyy happier. I gained about 10 lbs of muscle mass (over the months). While tempted, I refused to go back on. At which point the itching and shedding returned.

It was end 2004, and I used minoxidil which eventually turned into another mix, which ended up regrowing more hair than even before finasteride. It had major sides, and started giving me palpitations and screwing up my vision. After 6-9 months, I stopped and was back at square 1. Shedding, itching back. I just thought if I could just find something that could reduce this f'in itch and restore my scalp to a healthy state, my hair should stabilize.

It was at this point I discovered Zix, created by a poster named Joe (I'll post his site later). A lot of people were having success on it. It's made up of vitamin B6 and Zinc mixed with ethyl alcohol and distilled water. He quoted a study showing that zinc sulfate + B6 (p5p) reduces scalp dht. I said why not, I ordered the vitamins from independent store on amazon, and mixed up the concoction per his recipe (classic zix). Within a couple days, my itch was gone, it was a god send. The itch used to be so bad, I wanted to tear into my scalp with a fork. Anyhow, my scalp looked much like it did pre hairloss, white and healthy. Within a week or two, the shedding had gone down to next to nothing, and my hair recovered. It still was thinner than 9-12 months prior when I was still on finasteride, but my hair still looked really good.

Over the years (11 years since dropping finasteride, and 19 since starting male pattern baldness), my hair isnt perfect because I experimented with other things. For example, my scalp and ketoconazole do not mix, and my hair sheds less and is thicker not taking it. But on the whole, I have maintained most of what I had. I am probably a NW2 now, coming from a Norwood 1 since end 2005. I have lost density and some of my hairline, but at 39 y.o. I still have as much hair, if not more than most of my friends. By all accounts, I'd say this is a huge success. I would probably have more had i kept using finasteride, but I would still be a total mess due to sides. This has been the best solution for me, hands down.

+

I believe that my hair stopped falling because zix helped me maintain a healthy scalp. Whether this is a function of reducing DHT or reducing inflammation I cannot say as my science knowledge is effectively non-existent. But the lack of itching to me is an indicator that zix is truly effective. Not to mention, that over the past 11 years I still have most of my hair. I am confident I would be pretty bald, as I used to shed massive amounts of hair, and during the times I was without treatment, I lost a lot of ground.

I have changed my formulation from Joe's classic Zix, being that I doubled the concentration, and have put in twice the zinc sulfate (I believe that's 4x zinc). Joe has other formulations, which I have tried, but in the end I am sticking to what works for me.

Joe was quite active on hairlosshelp, but has since stopped. The people on hairlosshelp are vicious, resort to name calling and rip you apart if you deviate from the big 3, it's really quite ridiculous. And the moderator allows this to continue, which I suspect why he has way less posters than here. Anyhow, Joe backed away from the negativity. I couldnt stand it myself.

Joe was a godsend for me and my hair, and I cant thank him enough.

I still hope to regain some density, and am holding high hopes for brotzu's lotion, but until then, I believe zix is the best solution for me.

Quite a few have asked for the formula, of those I know @Quest is using it and is reporting wayyyy less shedding. I have zero financial interest in this as you can go to any vitamin store and buy the ingredients on your own. it costs about $2 per month i estimate.

I hope for those who are in desperate need of a solution, this helps you. I would be inclined to add it even if you're taking finasteride.

With respect zinc and B6, as anecdotal evidence, I know there have been a few formulas out there who use both in their mixes, for example i know regenepure and lipogaine both do, as well as some others such as revivogen. Here are it's ingredients, you'll see they use p5p and zinc sulfate.

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SD Alcohol 40, Purified Water, Gamma Linolenic Acid, Linoleic Acid, Alpha Linolenic Acid, Oleic Acid, Saw Palmetto Extract, Ethyl Laurate, Beta Sitosterol, Caffeine, Octyl Gallate, Dodecyl Gallate, Pyridoxal 5- phosphate (Vitamin B6), , Tocopherol (Vitamin E), Procyanidin B2 (from Grape Seed or Apple extract), Azelaic Acid, Zinc Sulfate, Menthol, EDTA, Perfume

+

If I were to add anything I may try taking a SPalmetto supplement internally to boost the anti dht. I tend to be constantly tinkering, and havent found the right time or motivation to do so.

One last thing, zix adds cosmetic density, and gives your follicles a bit of a boost, making your hair look thicker. I find it amazing for styling, as it give a dry natural look while helping to keep your hair in place.

My formula is in the next post.

Cheers!

@worm

Omg, I have to try this! Thank you for sharing your expirience.

 

[Moosey]

Can you post links to the zinc and B6 you buy?

I dont really think it matters where the B6 is coming from. I just try to get a liquid solution of it.
I use this https://de.iherb.com/pr/Carlson-Lab...1bwoz9KSwUYW-iYk6FMaAnI7EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds because it has insane dosing. Just look if you can buy it in your country.
Otherwise i could buy these pharmagrade injectable B6 solution https://www.pharmeo.de/03920008-vitamin-b6-hevert-ampullen.html
For 45€, this would last me around 250 days if i use the dosage worm is using.

I bhought this https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B072MHMZ4N/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_8?smid=A27IBWM9HBE9L1&th=1 as zinc because its manufactured in way you can actually use it as a topical. I just bhought https://www.subolab.de/en/zinksulfa...pcQ1ZNw-hKZzfgdMtpYI9KaJYMHOjH9saAiP3EALw_wcB this too because everyone says its necessary. Im probably just going to mix both of em.

Im really tempted to use extremely high doses of b6 and zinc. Its so extremely cheap, these products are going to last me for years. But im scared ill "poison" my skin if i use too much

 

[EndlessPossibilities]

@EndlessPossibilities Then why is everyone making a fuss about sulfate heptahydrate, if theres less zinc in these formulas than actual, pure zinc? Sulfate also has a higher molecular weight than most of the liqueid zinc solutions i can buy, making it less potent because its harder to penetrate the skin.
Its completely contradictory. Im not trying to debate over it, i just dont see the logic behind all of it

Because chemistry. A single hydrogren bond or whatever can make the difference in how a substance is broken down within cells. In our situation we want zinc to inter the cell directly immediately. In almost all my resesesrch heptahydrate was top form for topicals

 

[Gregor59]

I cant find p5p. I have just zinc pills and distilled water. How can i do?

 

[Moosey]

I cant find p5p. I have just zinc pills and distilled water. How can i do?

You cant find Vitamin B6 on the internet?

 

[Gregor59]

You cant find Vitamin B6 on the internet?

I live in turkey and yes, i cant find it.

 

[Moosey]

I live in turkey and yes, i cant find it.

thats impossible bro. turkey is such a huge country, of course theres vitamin B6 somewhere, sold as a liquid or in capsule or whatever. Its impossible.
Just buy from another country if you cant find it. It costs more but the B6 lasts for a very long time.

 

[Gregor59]

thats impossible bro. turkey is such a huge country, of course theres vitamin B6 somewhere, sold as a liquid or in capsule or whatever. Its impossible.
Just buy from another country if you cant find it. It costs more but the B6 lasts for a very long time.

Should i order this? 10 mg 100 pills

 

[badhabiz]

Should i order this? 10 mg 100 pills

https://www.ubuy.com.tr/en/search/?ref_p=ser_tp&q=B6

 

[-Link-]

https://www.ubuy.com.tr/en/search/?ref_p=ser_tp&q=B6

Pure Encapsulations is the brand that Joe and Worm recommend. It has been used by many with success. I see the brand on your link page, though.

 

[fugged]

Hi All,

Ok Im coming around to zix, having been saddened and at the brink here sadly. Im digesting this huge thread and have a few questions in case anyone wants to kindly humor me and answer them, Ill be searching through he bulk in the meantime, but here they are in general.

I know Joe has many iterations of zix, and that OP basically stated the original but with more zinc worked. Is there a consensus on what is "best" for most?

Is 70% ethyl rubbing alcohol appropriate? Or, is ethanol/ ethyl alcohol available at drugstores?

I currently use minoxidil usually 1x per day but I think it sometimes over the years and now especially, give me scalp folliculitis for some reason.. Id look to ditch it but am deathly afraid of consequences, so am I correct in understanding that both can be used? One in the morning and one in evening or did I read correctly that they can be used almost back to back/together?

Would 1x per day be considered worthwhile, esp if combined with min?

Am I missing anything big here buried in the thread??

Thank you much!!

 

[worm]

I seriously doubt it matters as long as its zinc

It absolutely matters.

Omg, I have to try this! Thank you for sharing your expirience.

@MrsS was a female user and had great success. I believe she started tinkering with other treatments and things went sideways. Anyhow maybe she can update us

I dont really think it matters where the B6 is coming from. I just try to get a liquid solution of it.
I use this https://de.iherb.com/pr/Carlson-Lab...1bwoz9KSwUYW-iYk6FMaAnI7EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds because it has insane dosing. Just look if you can buy it in your country.
Otherwise i could buy these pharmagrade injectable B6 solution https://www.pharmeo.de/03920008-vitamin-b6-hevert-ampullen.html
For 45€, this would last me around 250 days if i use the dosage worm is using.

I bhought this https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B072MHMZ4N/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_8?smid=A27IBWM9HBE9L1&th=1 as zinc because its manufactured in way you can actually use it as a topical. I just bhought https://www.subolab.de/en/zinksulfa...pcQ1ZNw-hKZzfgdMtpYI9KaJYMHOjH9saAiP3EALw_wcB this too because everyone says its necessary. Im probably just going to mix both of em.

Im really tempted to use extremely high doses of b6 and zinc. Its so extremely cheap, these products are going to last me for years. But im scared ill "poison" my skin if i use too much

I've been using this for 15 years now. I can assure the ingredients do matter. It really sucks when the brand you use stops its production. I've had to search around for substitutes while the shedding started by using the wrong types of b6 and zinc.

I do not recommend high doses. In my experience there is a threshold where you start to experience more hair shedding.

It's really a balance. Maybe there is a better way to do it. My formula has certainly changed over the years, the concentrations i have are the result of years of fine tuning. That said, my concentration may not be the same as what another may need. I suspect it is pretty universal though.

 

[fugged]

what the consensus on using it with minoxidil?

 

[fugged]

ok maybe Ill get a response here..

I realize this is all about blocking dht in the scalp, in the past Ive tried finasteride and it didn't seem to slow shedding. Are there any reports of people who didn't do well on finasteride still having luck with zix?

 

[pony wang]

Hi worm，I come from China, I already use zix11 days, it makes my scalp dermatitis is much better, also don't itch, but my hair haven't reduce, I washing a hair two days off about 50 root, drop 20-30 hair during the day, they are scattered on the pillow, bed, desk, it makes my mood is very bad, every day you are using a zix how long a hair loss reduced, I hope I can make my hair loss zix reduced, finasteride should I eat? I can't stand it.

 

[pony wang]

Pigeon, how long have you been using zix? Has your hair loss decreased?

 

[pony wang]

Did you change in two months with the pigeon? I see what they have effect is in 25 days perhaps 1 month left and right sides, my hair before more than two months is good still, do not know zha of hair loss, do I need to take finasteride?

 

[Min0]

did anyone try experiment by putting zix on his arm hair ? thinking of starting to do it in a small spot to see if hair there will thin, as DHT makes arm hair grow.