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[Canuto]

Interesting stuff! Do you think it’s possible that dutasteride and finasteride for some people do not reduce DHT. There are reports on here of people having their DHT tested while on these drugs but still having normal or above normal DHT levels. Perhaps that’s why these drugs don’t work for everyone?

There will always be exceptions. I recall a case of a guy on another forum who posted labs with both finasteride and dutasteride and his T and DHT went higher with both. He kept complaining and complaining the drugs were candies and useless.

 

[pegasus2]

There will always be exceptions. I recall a case of a guy on another forum who posted labs with both finasteride and dutasteride and his T and DHT went higher with both. He kept complaining and complaining the drugs were candies and useless.

Maybe they were candies. There are a handful of people out there with P450 deficiency, but even those people should get some decrease in DHT, even if it's not much.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

There will always be exceptions. I recall a case of a guy on another forum who posted labs with both finasteride and dutasteride and his T and DHT went higher with both. He kept complaining and complaining the drugs were candies and useless.

Isn''t that true for most AA's, that testosterone goes up but lacks receptors to bind to? I think that @bridgeburn was using dutasteride although I am not sure that he needed to.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

This study shows that eplerenone is indeed a more potent hair growth promoter than spironolactone. However, the study was only done using female frontotemporal hairs. If anything the effect should be more pronounced in Androgenetic Alopecia since aldosterone had no effect on the female HF, but has been implicated in Androgenetic Alopecia pathology. I don't think eplerenone does much for Androgenetic Alopecia by itself, but it should significantly improve the results of AAs as an adjuvant therapy. There's no telling how much of a factor it's been in my regrowth. Theoretically, and now empirically, it's at least relevant.



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So those three are all almost chemically identical, huh? In terms of molecular shape....

 

[pegasus2]

So those three are all almost chemically identical, huh? In terms of molecular shape....

No, eplerenone is a selective MR antagonist with little affinity for the AR, so no sexual side effects. spironolactone is both AR and MR antagonist, but probably has less binding overall to the MR than eplerenone. It would seem from that study I posted to have less effect at the MR and GPER than eplerenone.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Eplerenone, sold under the brand name Inspra, is a steroidal antimineralocorticoid of the spirolactone.

I assume they have different effects like ephedrine and methamphetamine but that they are structurally similar. If Eplerone is not feminizing, then how are you purported benefiting from it?

 

[pegasus2]

Eplerenone, sold under the brand name Inspra, is a steroidal antimineralocorticoid of the spirolactone.

I assume they have different effects like ephedrine and methamphetamine but that they are structurally similar. If Eplerone is not feminizing, then how are you purported benefiting from it?

They're from the same family, yes. Overactivation of the MR by cortisol and aldosterone increases tgf-b and downregulates MAPK, causing hair loss. Eplerenone and spironolactone are also GPER antagonists. I believe GPER to be a negative regulator of hair growth, it downregulates nfKb and c-Myc. Eplerenone reverses fibrosis and upregulates cAMP, which is downregulated in bald scalp. It inhibits p21 and p53, and normalizes PPAR-γ.

Unfortunately eplerenone is barely soluble in DMSO so I haven't bothered to use it topically yet. I think it would be quite potent topically. Hopefully we can get finerenone soon, it's more potent than eplerenone, smaller, and more soluble.

 

[Canuto]

Isn''t that true for most AA's, that testosterone goes up but lacks receptors to bind to? I think that @bridgeburn was using dutasteride although I am not sure that he needed to.

It's true for bicalutamide, as it's a standard AR anti-androgen, but not for cyproterone acetate to name one, since it decreases LH and hence androgens levels in the body.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

It's true for bicalutamide, as it's a standard AR anti-androgen, but not for cyproterone acetate to name one, since it decreases LH and hence androgens levels in the body.

Okay. It's true for spironolactone as well. I knew it was two of the three. It makes it difficult to figure out true T levels.

 

[SausageDawg]

Unfortunately eplerenone is barely soluble in DMSO so I haven't bothered to use it topically yet. I think it would be quite potent topically.

Could it be applied after needling? Especially if it can reverse fibrosis it would seem like 2 birds 1 stone

 

[Selb]

Could it be applied after needling? Especially if it can reverse fibrosis it would seem like 2 birds 1 stone

Would S5 cream help with reducing fibrosis too?

 

[pegasus2]

Could it be applied after needling? Especially if it can reverse fibrosis it would seem like 2 birds 1 stone

Sure, but I still don't know if absorption will be high enough since it's only soluble 2mg in DMSO. Maybe you could get 4mg twice a day and if you needle beforehand that might get enough of it to the follicle to work. Then again it might just be a waste.

Would S5 cream help with reducing fibrosis too?

It would, but I don't think spironolactone has significant MR antagonist activity topically. The cream has AR antagonist activity, but the MR antagonism responsible for reversing fibrosis is mostly from a metabolite which is made in the liver not in the skin.

 

[BigBadBaldie]

No, eplerenone is a selective MR antagonist with little affinity for the AR, so no sexual side effects. spironolactone is both AR and MR antagonist, but probably has less binding overall to the MR than eplerenone. It would seem from that study I posted to have less effect at the MR and GPER than eplerenone.

What are your thoughts on RU58841’s effectiveness? Do you think it’s better to buy premixed solutions or make them yourself?

 

[BigBadBaldie]

There will always be exceptions. I recall a case of a guy on another forum who posted labs with both finasteride and dutasteride and his T and DHT went higher with both. He kept complaining and complaining the drugs were candies and useless.

Yeah I’ve seen a few reports of this. For me it was the only explanation for why I’d still be losing hair on dutasteride but I’m really not all that knowledgeable on this stuff so keep taking dutasteride anyway. Mine is from a licensed pharmacy so I know it’s legitimate.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Yeah I’ve seen a few reports of this. For me it was the only explanation for why I’d still be losing hair on dutasteride but I’m really not all that knowledgeable on this stuff so keep taking dutasteride anyway. Mine is from a licensed pharmacy so I know it’s legitimate.

Just as an aside, MtFs struggle with this issue too when using estrogen with an AA or when evaluating whether dutasteride is necessary anymore as female hormones rise. For hair regrowth, hormonal targets are very important and AA's and dutasteride can throw off the calculations and push you above target T.

 

[pegasus2]

What are your thoughts on RU58841’s effectiveness? Do you think it’s better to buy premixed solutions or make them yourself?

It's highly effective, but over the long term you probably need to increase the concentration. If you make it yourself you can get the powder tested.

None of the trial participants for finasteride or dutasteride failed to have a response to the medications. By a response I mean a reduction of DHT, not hair growth.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

It's highly effective, but over the long term you probably need to increase the concentration. If you make it yourself you can get the powder tested.

None of the trial participants for finasteride or dutasteride failed to have a response to the medications. By a response I mean a reduction of DHT, not hair growth.

I know you have impressive pictures Peg but you are using the kitchen sink-)

Does anyone else have impressive pics from using this med and for me, that would be significant crown thickening to the point where nothing more than incipient baldness might be observed or for diffuse folks, significant improvements in length, texture, managability, etc.

 

[Selb]

Sure, but I still don't know if absorption will be high enough since it's only soluble 2mg in DMSO. Maybe you could get 4mg twice a day and if you needle beforehand that might get enough of it to the follicle to work. Then again it might just be a waste.



It would, but I don't think spironolactone has significant MR antagonist activity topically. The cream has AR antagonist activity, but the MR antagonism responsible for reversing fibrosis is mostly from a metabolite which is made in the liver not in the skin.

So then it seems to target both sides you’d need a good MR and AR antagonist. S5 Cream/Spironolactone for the AR. And a good solution for eplerenone to target MR. Both would help fibrosis and wouldn’t interfere with each other. The question now is how to improve solubility of the eplerenone

 

[Canuto]

Just as an aside, MtFs struggle with this issue too when using estrogen with an AA or when evaluating whether dutasteride is necessary anymore as female hormones rise. For hair regrowth, hormonal targets are very important and AA's and dutasteride can throw off the calculations and push you above target T.

If there is a no more testosterone being produced (meaning to the levels of a pre-pubescent kid) any 5-ar inhibitor will be useless

 

[pegasus2]

I know you have impressive pictures Peg but you are using the kitchen sink-)

Does anyone else have impressive pics from using this med and for me, that would be significant crown thickening to the point where nothing more than incipient baldness might be observed or for diffuse folks, significant improvements in length, texture, managability, etc.

You mean eplerenone? No, only myself and one other person have tried it AFAIK. You can't expect anything to work miracles as a standalone treatment except 17b-estradiol. If you want serious regrowth it's either the kitchen sink approach attacking every pathway, or the HRT route.

So then it seems to target both sides you’d need a good MR and AR antagonist. S5 Cream/Spironolactone for the AR. And a good solution for eplerenone to target MR. Both would help fibrosis and wouldn’t interfere with each other. The question now is how to improve solubility of the eplerenone

spironolactone is a poor choice for a AA. It will work to a degree, but without being metabolized in the liver it's a weak AA. Unless you want to use it orally you're better off with RU or any of the others. I'm not a fan of topical spironolactone