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That's what I thought, but people are claiming good success from estradiol and that estriol is not strong enough to promote hair growth. I'm just desperate...
Thread to track my progress 2.0!
- Thread starter mj9
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I've started seeing lot's of villus hair popping up everywhere but not cosmetically significant. However, I've also noticed my nipples have become very sensitive (sign of gyno?), so I'm dropping the estriol dose by half. Other than that my hair feel thicker but photos show no improvement so that sucks!
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I don't buy the receptor justification for using estriol. First of all, does estriol "work" even? I have used Biestro creams for years and they have some effect but I also used lots and lots and lots. My breasts got big and round using Biestro but hair was lagging. Estriol is just too weak in my opinion. There's a reason why MtF's tend to never be prescribed estriol and it most likely has to do with the weakness of estriol. It's more than strong enough to initiate breast growth as you may be finding but seemingly too weak to feminize hair and face.
I have been using estrogen topicals going back to the fall of 2013 and usually on my hair although I decided that I could go back to just using Climara patches because my hair was improving so thoroughly and quickly.
Here's what I would try. Contact Marky and discuss his cycling protocol with HRT. He has pretty much all of his hair in his 40's and he does not look feminized at all in my opinion.
Sheds are beneficial and should be celebrated more than lamented but you need to have a plan in place to ride out sheds. They are worse for females because it can take, in my case, close to 18 months before my hair moved past the bottom of my ears so this is the longest hair for me ever, even when I was 16-18. This is probably due to very large increases in anagen. I try to shout anagen from the hilltops but most guys don't get it. You are just operating at a huge disadvantage in terms of skin softness, texture, flexibility, lack of time in the anagen phase and male sebum levels are often off the charts. @bridgeburn and I both stopped using shampoo and I only wash with water ever few days. This is because without all of the sebum build-up, my hair doesn't get dirty easily except from topical min after micro-needling which I did last night.
Estradiol is neither spooky nor dangerous. Structurally, T and E2 are very close. Name one thing that T can do that E2 cannot and there are not many things at all outside of procreation. Women have muscles. Women can do the daily tasks of life and there are significant mood and health benefits from E2 and HRT as well as incredible benefits to all tissue except bone. One thing that might be beneficial is if you were to essentially shock your system by going up to at least 300pg/ml. I was at about nine times that last year so that's too much for mere mortals but now I am shooting for 300pg/ml. This could be the magic number that essentially turns on hair growth like a light switch. I think that first, you need to get your T down to zero and then you can raise estradiol and hopefully that will do the trick. I had basically zero T and extreme pg/ml levels.
You are on oral min so that's great. You probably can safely titrate upwards to 2.5mg daily. I am using about ten times that much daily so eh, you probably don't want to use that much. 2.5mg to 10mg daily is probably best. You can use more if you split the doses.
Along with that, in my opinion, if you want to be successful at this then you have to just not sweat the breast growth. The larger you are, the smaller they will look. I think pretty much only the petite folks like me and @bridgeburn have visible breast growth but neither he nor I stopped regardless of breast growth. If that is you in the avatar picture, you appear to be a handsome guy with at least, formerly great hair. I get the feeling that you are close to reaching a break-through so anything I can do or suggest to help, please don't hesitate to ask.
Janey
I have been using estrogen topicals going back to the fall of 2013 and usually on my hair although I decided that I could go back to just using Climara patches because my hair was improving so thoroughly and quickly.
Here's what I would try. Contact Marky and discuss his cycling protocol with HRT. He has pretty much all of his hair in his 40's and he does not look feminized at all in my opinion.
Sheds are beneficial and should be celebrated more than lamented but you need to have a plan in place to ride out sheds. They are worse for females because it can take, in my case, close to 18 months before my hair moved past the bottom of my ears so this is the longest hair for me ever, even when I was 16-18. This is probably due to very large increases in anagen. I try to shout anagen from the hilltops but most guys don't get it. You are just operating at a huge disadvantage in terms of skin softness, texture, flexibility, lack of time in the anagen phase and male sebum levels are often off the charts. @bridgeburn and I both stopped using shampoo and I only wash with water ever few days. This is because without all of the sebum build-up, my hair doesn't get dirty easily except from topical min after micro-needling which I did last night.
Estradiol is neither spooky nor dangerous. Structurally, T and E2 are very close. Name one thing that T can do that E2 cannot and there are not many things at all outside of procreation. Women have muscles. Women can do the daily tasks of life and there are significant mood and health benefits from E2 and HRT as well as incredible benefits to all tissue except bone. One thing that might be beneficial is if you were to essentially shock your system by going up to at least 300pg/ml. I was at about nine times that last year so that's too much for mere mortals but now I am shooting for 300pg/ml. This could be the magic number that essentially turns on hair growth like a light switch. I think that first, you need to get your T down to zero and then you can raise estradiol and hopefully that will do the trick. I had basically zero T and extreme pg/ml levels.
You are on oral min so that's great. You probably can safely titrate upwards to 2.5mg daily. I am using about ten times that much daily so eh, you probably don't want to use that much. 2.5mg to 10mg daily is probably best. You can use more if you split the doses.
Along with that, in my opinion, if you want to be successful at this then you have to just not sweat the breast growth. The larger you are, the smaller they will look. I think pretty much only the petite folks like me and @bridgeburn have visible breast growth but neither he nor I stopped regardless of breast growth. If that is you in the avatar picture, you appear to be a handsome guy with at least, formerly great hair. I get the feeling that you are close to reaching a break-through so anything I can do or suggest to help, please don't hesitate to ask.
Janey
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That's not me in the avatar pic - I can only wish my hair would look like that!
I've dropped estriol due to the nipple tenderness. I'm also skeptical about how much e3 contributes to hair growth. I feel oral minoxidil is doing all the heavy lifting e.g. I'm getting hair all over the place since starting oral minoxidil.
I'd like to add something else as a topical but I'm not sure what. I don't want want gyno or anything like that and I'm also hitting the gym again and I think estriol was making me feel weak at the gym but who knows.
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hey bro, you are taking both topical+ oral min? what has been your experienced with oral min? more unwanted body hair thabt topical?
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Yeah in taking both now. A lot more body hair since oral minoxidil. If those hair would just grow on my head, I would be a Norwood 1!
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Crown bald spot is definitely thicker and I had an unsolicited comment last week that my hair are growing and look thicker 
Only downside is that I have developed retrograde alopecia or it has got more aggressive.
Major shed - 23 Aug 2021
Only downside is that I have developed retrograde alopecia or it has got more aggressive.
Major shed - 23 Aug 2021
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Mj9, I remember you from when you joined like 15 years ago. Show us some pics
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I will post some soon. Feels like that was a different life - here we are still waiting for a cure lol
Wish I had gone all guns blazing back then. Good reason why male pattern baldness prone guys should go all out and not wait for a "cure in 1-2 years" lol
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Can't believe it's November and I'm still seeing growth. I've also had some great comments by people who don't know I'm on treatments.
The only thing is it is getting a bit of a pain to apply all these products, especially now that people are expected to travel more and covid restrictions are eased.
Oh and I dropped Dermaroller/stamp, I don't think it was doing anything for me. I only use it if I have scalp itch.
Other updates: stopped e3 due to gyno.
Gyno has almost all disappeared - very difficult to notice and nipples are not sensitive anymore.
I lose HUGE amounts of hair everyday but overall seem to gain and retrograde alopecia is improving as well - I wonder if it was a shed due starting of hair growth.
The only thing is it is getting a bit of a pain to apply all these products, especially now that people are expected to travel more and covid restrictions are eased.
Oh and I dropped Dermaroller/stamp, I don't think it was doing anything for me. I only use it if I have scalp itch.
Other updates: stopped e3 due to gyno.
Gyno has almost all disappeared - very difficult to notice and nipples are not sensitive anymore.
I lose HUGE amounts of hair everyday but overall seem to gain and retrograde alopecia is improving as well - I wonder if it was a shed due starting of hair growth.
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Tbh I don't think any one thing alone is going to give good results.
My gyno has completely cleared so I might restart estriol. My main concern was ending up with permanent boobs, but everything disappeared so I don't need to worry about surgery etc.
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The pain and the breast/nipple growth. My nipples were sticking out and could be seen through shirts etc. It's all disappeared now, but i have also been hitting the gym.
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I have kept the gains and my hair have continued to grow. I shed a tonne of hair every single day but I don't care as long as the overall density stays the same or increases. I'm thinking about doing another cycle of estriol and then stopping when gyno kicks in.