2002 Propecia Began – Forced To Up To Proscar Level, Sexual Impact

[Editor Ed]

My story is a long and mixed one, but to cut to the chase, a couple years ago, I was encouraged to increase my dosage of finesteride from 0.5 mg, which had been sufficient for years, to 5 mg. Since then, it appears that there was no prostate issue, which had been the impetus for the increase. I then tried to titrate the dosage back down to a lower amount as sexual function was impacted. Attempted twice to go down slowly beginning with 3.75 mg, and more recently closer to 3 mg over a period of 6 weeks, and each time, hair loss occurred.

I know how effective taking finesteride had been for over 17 years (I began at age 31) seemingly without issue, and even managing to retain its benefits on a half dosage for 4 years. Now it seems, after going up to 5 mg for a year, the body adjusted to this, and backing down from it without losses is challenging!

How have others handled such a situation -- what are the key recommendations for slow and safe dosage reduction? Thanks in advance.

 

[badhabiz]

here, used propecia for 17 years (started ad 21), every day.
you absolutely have to lesser the dosage in a few months, even a whole year.
give your body the time to adapt, dont do it cold turkey.
because T will drop, and the way back is long and difficult.
when the time comes, you might consider topical and other solutions.
if you already have sexual issues, consider to report to your md for a protocol to recover.

 

[Editor Ed]

Good to connect with you, someone with a similar period of use. The first physicians I saw presented a very guess-like picture of how to taper the dosage back down. When I was at 3.75 mg their guess was to alter 3.75mg with 2.5mg on alternate days over the course of just a month. They did both seem to have a clear understanding of best practices in this area. Which brings me here. I am on 5% Minoxidal, liquid not foam, applied once at night to my medium length hair. 2x a day has always been a bit unworkable cosmetically as in the morning I need to remain presentable, and not with a strange product all over the lengthier hair (it'd be fine to apply to a shaven head). Also taking biotin 5000mcg 2x daily.

So tapering over 6 months to 1 year sound like a recommendation. Still how would this be done exactly in terms of stepped down amounts? It's already quite a challenge to cut process 5mg into half and quarters. It's inexact. Do we alternate dosages to get a combined weekly lower interim amount, or actually, impossibly, try to taper down by even smaller cut increments?

 

[badhabiz]

Hwr

Good to connect with you, someone with a similar period of use. The first physicians I saw presented a very guess-like picture of how to taper the dosage back down. When I was at 3.75 mg their guess was to alter 3.75mg with 2.5mg on alternate days over the course of just a month. They did both seem to have a clear understanding of best practices in this area. Which brings me here. I am on 5% Minoxidal, liquid not foam, applied once at night to my medium length hair. 2x a day has always been a bit unworkable cosmetically as in the morning I need to remain presentable, and not with a strange product all over the lengthier hair (it'd be fine to apply to a shaven head). Also taking biotin 5000mcg 2x daily.

So tapering over 6 months to 1 year sound like a recommendation. Still how would this be done exactly in terms of stepped down amounts? It's already quite a challenge to cut process 5mg into half and quarters. It's inexact. Do we alternate dosages to get a combined weekly lower interim amount, or actually, impossibly, try to taper down by even smaller cut increments?

Here in Italy we can get finasteride pills with a specific dosage, so i got 0,25 pills everday day (i did prefer to lower the dosage and taking it ed) then to 0,12
but if you want to cut in quarters you need to get it every other day like right now, and than in a 3/4 months you could take it every 3 days. Whatever you do, take your time to do It and help yourself with some supplements to balance the drop in T that finasteride leaves
You could switch to topical during the last period of use of oral if your MD agrees

 

[Editor Ed]

I must say this appears to be very sensible advice. And you're very fortunate that finesteride in Italy is available in a much wider array of dosages. You had mentioned that testosterone would drop when decreasing dosage -- this doesn't square with my understanding of the mechanism. Doesn't finesteride suppress testosterone (or dihydrotestosterone)? So taking less of it, should see an increase in T. Hence the sexual side effects at higher dosages. I appear to be missing your understanding on this aspect.

 

[badhabiz]

I must say this appears to be very sensible advice. And you're very fortunate that finesteride in Italy is available in a much wider array of dosages. You had mentioned that testosterone would drop when decreasing dosage -- this doesn't square with my understanding of the mechanism. Doesn't finesteride suppress testosterone (or dihydrotestosterone)? So taking less of it, should see an increase in T. Hence the sexual side effects at higher dosages. I appear to be missing your understanding on this aspect.

Finasteride raises Testosterone by inhibiting dht, and the sides comes for those who cant bear the excess in T that ends up converted in estrogens (and because of the suppression of few neurosteroids like allopregnolone, which are connected to dht )
It depends of your aromatase enzyme, if works very well you may tolerate this excess because it doesnt convert it in estrogens
Yes we can dosage finasteride here, or at least I can because of my work.
Hope you consider to fight this situation

 

[Haironnu]

Finasteride raises Testosterone by inhibiting dht, and the sides comes for those who cant bear the excess in T that ends up converted in estrogens (and because of the suppression of few neurosteroids like allopregnolone, which are connected to dht )
It depends of your aromatase enzyme, if works very well you may tolerate this excess because it doesnt convert it in estrogens
Yes we can dosage finasteride here, or at least I can because of my work.
Hope you consider to fight this situation

but doesn't lower testosterone usually also have sexual impact? so if it's increases it's supposed to make the situation better, no?
I mean people who have low testosterone usually go on TRT to increase it's testosterone, same for bodybuilders who use steroids and abuse it to increase it to beyond natural levels, how come they don't have sexual performance or potency problems?
by what you're saying if there is too much testosterone the body will convert it to estrogen and thus create sexual impact issues, which to me makes no sense considering what I said above, how do steroid users or people on TRT don't have their bodies covert that extra testosterone (super extra in bodybuilders case) to estrogen and create sexual performance issues?

 

[badhabiz]

but doesn't lower testosterone usually also have sexual impact? so if it's increases it's supposed to make the situation better, no?
I mean people who have low testosterone usually go on TRT to increase it's testosterone, same for bodybuilders who use steroids and abuse it to increase it to beyond natural levels, how come they don't have sexual performance or potency problems?
by what you're saying if there is too much testosterone the body will convert it to estrogen and thus create sexual impact issues, which to me makes no sense considering what I said above, how do steroid users or people on TRT don't have their bodies covert that extra testosterone (super extra in bodybuilders case) to estrogen and create sexual performance issues?

What i said its not a secret even for a regular person and thats why im (not the only one) concerned about propecia users awareness.
Of course lower T have also sexual impact, every imbalance has somehow an impact, libido is all about balance, but its a different thing, finasteride does not lower T but it converts it (the exceded amount) in estrogens, and also inhibits various neurosteroids. Actually, several finasteride users under clomid treatment reported a positive impact on libido, and clomid goes in this estrogen inhibition.
bodybuilders who uses steroids know very well that they have to take care of the imbalance that exogenous T comes with, and they do. (exogenous T has also other kind of issues because in the long run shuts down endogenous production if you dont use it wisely ) but what you are not considering its the mechanism: steroids doesnt raise T by inhibiting dht but by exogenous T (so the exceded T can convert to dht) , thats why they have a different impact (but still an impact). The problem with finasteride its the inhibition of dht.
Hope it helps

 

[Editor Ed]

Badhabiz, so a possible plan of action that might be recommended, if I'm following you correctly, and just to confirm, is:

-divide 5 mg into quarters (roughly 1.25 mg)
-daily alternate between taking 2 quarters (2.5 mg) and 3 quarters (3.75 mg) for 3 weeks
-after 3 weeks, switch to taking 2 quarters each day for 2 days in a row, then take 3 quarters on the 3rd day
-after 3 weeks, switch to taking 2 quarters each day for 3 days in a row, then take 3 quarters on the 4th day
-after 3 weeks, switch to taking 2 quarters each day for 4 days in a row, then take 3 quarters on the 5th day
-after 3 weeks, switch to taking 2 quarters each day for 5 days in a row, then take 3 quarters on the 6th day
-after 3 weeks, switch to taking 2 quarters each day for 6 days in a row, then take 3 quarters on the 7th day
-take 2 quarters each day for 3 weeks

Then:

-begin alternating daily between taking 1 quarter (1.25 mg) and 2 quarters (2.5 mg) for 3 weeks
-after 3 weeks, switch to taking 1 quarter each day for 2 days in a row, then take 2 quarters on the 3rd day
-after 3 weeks, switch to taking 1 quarter each day for 3 days in a row, then take 2 quarters on the 4th day
-after 3 weeks, switch to taking 1 quarter each day for 4 days in a row, then take 2 quarters on the 5th day
-after 3 weeks, switch to taking 1 quarter each day for 5 days in a row, then take 2 quarters on the 6th day
-after 3 weeks, switch to taking 1 quarter each day for 6 days in a row, then take 2 quarters on the 7th day
-then stabilize on taking 1 quarter

Yes? Or perhaps even more gently, begin with:

-take 3 quarters 6 days in a row, then take 2 quarters
-after 3 weeks, take 3 quarters 5 days in a row, then take 2 quarters
-after 3 weeks, take 3 quarters 4 days in a row, then take 2 quarters
-after 3 weeks, take 3 quarters 3 days in a row, then take 2 quarters
-after 3 weeks, take 3 quarters 2 days in a row, then take 2 quarters
-after 3 weeks, begin alternating daily between 2 and 3 quarters, then begin the regimen above.

Somewhat compounding matters, I seem to experience a side effect from Minoxidol (5%) if using it more than once a day -- lowering blood pressure and leading to a dizzy/faint feeling. So scaling up that drug while tapering finesteride, isn't an option. It's also very hard to cut these pills accurately.

 

[badhabiz]

I guess it is hard but in your interest dont drop it cold turkey. Its a good plan stick to it
Also, you may want to help the transition with cycles of boron (2weeks on/1off) and a form of absorbable zinc (bisglycinate/picolinate ) if you dont want to use drugs.

 

[Haironnu]

What i said its not a secret even for a regular person and thats why im (not the only one) concerned about propecia users awareness.
Of course lower T have also sexual impact, every imbalance has somehow an impact, libido is all about balance, but its a different thing, finasteride does not lower T but it converts it (the exceded amount) in estrogens, and also inhibits various neurosteroids. Actually, several finasteride users under clomid treatment reported a positive impact on libido, and clomid goes in this estrogen inhibition.
bodybuilders who uses steroids know very well that they have to take care of the imbalance that exogenous T comes with, and they do. (exogenous T has also other kind of issues because in the long run shuts down endogenous production if you dont use it wisely ) but what you are not considering its the mechanism: steroids doesnt raise T by inhibiting dht but by exogenous T (so the exceded T can convert to dht) , thats why they have a different impact (but still an impact). The problem with finasteride its the inhibition of dht.
Hope it helps

so how can one determine if they have high risk of side effects from finasteride, before using it?

 

[badhabiz]

so how can one determine if they have high risk of side effects from finasteride, before using it?

This is the pivotal question.
Of course such studies are needed.
No one can answer you.

 

[Editor Ed]

Certainly cold turkey was never a considered option. Would you have any valuable links to dig into the boron (2weeks on/1off) and a form of absorbable zinc recommendation? For the former, a quick search isn't looking promising.

 

[badhabiz]

oh yes, my bad.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4712861/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21129941
https://examine.com/supplements/boron/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8875519
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21744023
https://www.researchgate.net/public...d_weight_trainings_on_the_testosterone_levels

i suggested these minerals because of their property as hormones balancer and not for your hair (though there isnt any literature that indicates they harm them) , they get you what you might lack, but, of course, dopamine agonists drugs or clomid would be more effective (IF you need them)

you'll find interesting the boron's mechanism of action

 

[Haironnu]

oh yes, my bad.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4712861/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21129941
https://examine.com/supplements/boron/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8875519
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21744023
https://www.researchgate.net/public...d_weight_trainings_on_the_testosterone_levels

i suggested these minerals because of their property as hormones balancer and not for your hair (though there isnt any literature that indicates they harm them) , they get you what you might lack, but, of course, dopamine agonists drugs or clomid would be more effective (IF you need them)

you'll find interesting the boron's mechanism of action

one of these studies boron says it significally increases DHT, why would any balding man want to increase their DHT?
--------
I personally have quite high zinc but low iron, the issue with iron is that I've yet to find an iron supplement that doesn't cause constipations and bad stomachs.

 

[badhabiz]

one of these studies boron says it significally increases DHT, why would any balding man want to increase their DHT?
--------
I personally have quite high zinc but low iron, the issue with iron is that I've yet to find an iron supplement that doesn't cause constipations and bad stomachs.

 

[badhabiz]

Of course its an hormone's regulator, but boron works lowering shgb blood levels (not as much as specific drugs).
High levels of zinc are also good for hair imho and quite different from boron

 

[Haironnu]

View attachment 130156

in this one https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21129941
it says DHT levels were elevated.

 

[badhabiz]

in this one https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21129941
it says DHT levels were elevated.

Not in a way you can experience.
Btw i was suggesting it for the transition, as i said, because after so many years of finasteride use T will gonna drop significantly and trace minerals are a softer way to sustain it.
Much more people use clomid or pakinsons dopamine agonists, they're really enemies of the hair (even if much more effective)

 

[Haironnu]

Not in a way you can experience.
Btw i was suggesting it for the transition, as i said, because after so many years of finasteride use T will gonna drop significantly and trace minerals are a softer way to sustain it.
Much more people use clomid or pakinsons dopamine agonists, they're really enemies of the hair (even if much more effective)

years of finasteride cause T to drop? never heard of that before, any studies on that?
could be coincidental because T drops with age.