2002 Propecia Began – Forced To Up To Proscar Level, Sexual Impact

[badhabiz]

years of finasteride cause T to drop? never heard of that before, any studies on that?
could be coincidental because T drops with age.

sorry but i did not say that, i said that dropping finasteride causes a drop, because there is no more dht inhibition (if you know what dht inhibition entails) and there is immense medical literature about it.
but i dont wanna convice you, peace

 

[Haironnu]

sorry but i did not say that, i said that dropping finasteride causes a drop, because there is no more dht inhibition (if you know what dht inhibition entails) and there is immense medical literature about it.
but i dont wanna convice you, peace

oh okay, sorry, I understood wrong.
wouldn't dropping finasteride basically takes the T levels back to the level they were before finasteride? or are you saying it drops it even further?

 

[badhabiz]

oh okay, sorry, I understood wrong.
wouldn't dropping finasteride basically takes the T levels back to the level they were before finasteride? or are you saying it drops it even further?

Im afraid (but the jury is out on it) that the way back to hormonal (and gaba/glutammate)balance is long and difficult

 

[Haironnu]

Im afraid (but the jury is out on it) that the way back to hormonal (and gaba/glutammate)balance is long and difficult

well, one could always go on TRT if the T drops really low

 

[badhabiz]

well, one could always go on TRT if the T drops really low

Yes, for sure, but its a matter of balance and exogenous T has its toll. But yes if needed

 

[Haironnu]

Yes, for sure, but its a matter of balance and exogenous T has its toll. But yes if needed

in theory, does the more testosterone you have the lower DHT you would have? I read somewhere they are counteractive and if someone has low testosterone it will result in higher DHT, and vice versa, is that true, to your knowledge? theoritically speaking if I have low testosterone for my age, and I increase it via TRT to where it should it for my age, would that make me go bald faster? or actually slow the hair loss down?

 

[badhabiz]

in theory, does the more testosterone you have the lower DHT you would have? I read somewhere they are counteractive and if someone has low testosterone it will result in higher DHT, and vice versa, is that true, to your knowledge? theoritically speaking if I have low testosterone for my age, and I increase it via TRT to where it should it for my age, would that make me go bald faster? or actually slow the hair loss down?

Im afraid not
Dht for 70% is a fraction of Total and free T (and for the 30% of others sexual precursors), there's a direct proportion (20% and 10%)
If you have low T for your age, you may want to stimulate natural production rather than introduce exogenous T, but yes, if your follicles are sensitive to dht, that proportional raise of dht will not do good to them

 

[Haironnu]

Im afraid not
Dht for 70% is a fraction of Total and free T (and for the 30% of others sexual precursors), there's a direct proportion (20% and 10%)
If you have low T for your age, you may want to stimulate natural production rather than introduce exogenous T, but yes, if your follicles are sensitive to dht, that proportional raise of dht will not do good to them

there aren't really any ways to significantly increase testosterone by natural means, what they say out there is mainly nonsense, plus having low testosterone is a magic circle.

I have low testosterone for my age, but my lifestyle is pretty healthy, I have a good diet, I don't drink or smoke, I'm not on any drugs.
they all say "lost weight" or "work out get some muscle".
sure, losing weight may and increasing your muscle mass may increase your testosterone a bit, although I doubt it's by any significant amount.
I have lost more than 60 pounds before and my testosterone was exactly the same before and after. I know this because I had blood tests.

and the evil magic circle about testosterone is that low testosterone promotes fat storage and makes it more difficult to build muscle, so you're trying to lose weight and increase muscle but the low testosterone goes against you in achieving those 2.

on the contrary of what you mentioned about, I believe low testosterone in young people is simply genetic. I've had low testosterone before puberty (and probably during too) as well, dumb doctors said "it will fix itself during puberty", and I was kid and my parents didn't know better. turns out it didn't fix anything, my t is still low.

 

[badhabiz]

there aren't really any ways to significantly increase testosterone by natural means, what they say out there is mainly nonsense, plus having low testosterone is a magic circle.

I have low testosterone for my age, but my lifestyle is pretty healthy, I have a good diet, I don't drink or smoke, I'm not on any drugs.
they all say "lost weight" or "work out get some muscle".
sure, losing weight may and increasing your muscle mass may increase your testosterone a bit, although I doubt it's by any significant amount.
I have lost more than 60 pounds before and my testosterone was exactly the same before and after. I know this because I had blood tests.

and the evil magic circle about testosterone is that low testosterone promotes fat storage and makes it more difficult to build muscle, so you're trying to lose weight and increase muscle but the low testosterone goes against you in achieving those 2.

on the contrary of what you mentioned about, I believe low testosterone in young people is simply genetic. I've had low testosterone before puberty (and probably during too) as well, dumb doctors said "it will fix itself during puberty", and I was kid and my parents didn't know better. turns out it didn't fix anything, my t is still low.

I completely agree, in some cases its moslty genetics, i wasnt suggesting otherwise. And you dont have to blame yourself or your lifestyle for it. I was just saying that having a higher T its auspicable because of sexual Life, bone density, mood, lean mass etc
Of course its not good for some type of hair loss as you know

 

[Haironnu]

I completely agree, in some cases its moslty genetics, i wasnt suggesting otherwise. And you dont have to blame yourself or your lifestyle for it. I was just saying that having a higher T its auspicable because of sexual Life, bone density, mood, lean mass etc
Of course its not good for some type of hair loss as you know

TRT can cause infertility over time?
Also, what if I take both TRT and then 1mg finasteride? would the extra TRT cancel finasteride? or maybe taking both trt and finasteride would at least let me have more testosterone and keep my current hair loss speed the same instead of increasing it?

 

[badhabiz]

Infertility, no, not in my knowledge.
Trt and finasteride, someone does it, consult with your MD, to me is a very bad idea. (= Estrogen spyke)

 

[badhabiz]

IF for infertility you mean testicular shutdown, there are some precautions you need to take with your MD yes (do not take exogenous T by yourself please ) but i wouldnt be alarming about it: if someone needs testosterone for medical purpose, has to take it.

 

[Haironnu]

IF for infertility you mean testicular shutdown, there are some precautions you need to take with your MD yes (do not take exogenous T by yourself please ) but i wouldnt be alarming about it: if someone needs testosterone for medical purpose, has to take it.

I researched a bit into TRT and it's not an easy and completely safe route to take even for medical issues.

exogenous T does causes infertilety because of testicular shutdown, hence probably more drugs are needed to be taken with it like HCG, it can also cause spike is estrogen which if it does then estrogen blockers are needed to be taken too.

exogenous trt can also cause vascular problems like increase risk of blood clots, heart disease and other related stuff.

it's like going from 1 hell to another, can't see how taking a cocktail of drugs for the rest of your life (and that's just for trt, not including drugs from other current/future problems) would do any good to your liver or long term health, at all. will probably cut off x number of years from your life span.

 

[Editor Ed]

Regarding titrating down from 5mg (or actually 3.75 where I'm at now), the optimal rate at which this is to be done if using proscar divided into quarters, seems impossible to know without studies, however, if the half life of finesteride is indeed under 24 hours, then dosing anything more than a day or two in between might not make sense. Earlier I referred to a possible regimen of spacing out a 3/4 pill far beyond just every other day, up to once every 5, 6, or 7 days, for a period of 3 weeks at a time. Other than being a slow phasing down, the interval spacing and the duration of 3 weeks at each level is really just completely arbitrary - a rough guess at what "slowly titrating down" is. It's just not cold turkey situation, which is obviously to be avoided, but what's optimal, or optimal for me, seems unknowable, again without existing studies.

I suppose the question I'm focused on here is what role the drug's half life can play in trying to formulate a several month long schedule of slowly titrarting the dose back down to 1 mg from the current 3.75, and ultimately 0.5 mg or less.

Thank you again. I thought introducing the half life consideration might be worthwhile.

 

[badhabiz]

Regarding titrating down from 5mg (or actually 3.75 where I'm at now), the optimal rate at which this is to be done if using proscar divided into quarters, seems impossible to know without studies, however, if the half life of finesteride is indeed under 24 hours, then dosing anything more than a day or two in between might not make sense. Earlier I referred to a possible regimen of spacing out a 3/4 pill far beyond just every other day, up to once every 5, 6, or 7 days, for a period of 3 weeks at a time. Other than being a slow phasing down, the interval spacing and the duration of 3 weeks at each level is really just completely arbitrary - a rough guess at what "slowly titrating down" is. It's just not cold turkey situation, which is obviously to be avoided, but what's optimal, or optimal for me, seems unknowable, again without existing studies.

I suppose the question I'm focused on here is what role the drug's half life can play in trying to formulate a several month long schedule of slowly titrarting the dose back down to 1 mg from the current 3.75, and ultimately 0.5 mg or less.

Thank you again. I thought introducing the half life consideration might be worthwhile.

Finasteride's half life is important, but imho you should focus on fina effects that continue much longer (4/5days) because dht levels take time to get back to origin.
So the effects are still there much longer than the drug itself in the bloodstream. Hope it help.
Ps. Your goal is right,to get to topical or oral under the flat line response (so way under 0,5)

 

[Editor Ed]

So you think it's worthwhile to continue with a regimen that spaces out the extra quarter of proscar all they way to once every 5 days then, but not once every 6 or 7?

Yes, I'd like to get below 0,5 -- and a few years ago did so -- but then this was close to the subsequent period where I was off it briefly for a couple weeks upon running out overseas, and experienced significant loss. So now I'd be happy to be at 0,5 and stable for at least a year first.

 

[badhabiz]

So you think it's worthwhile to continue with a regimen that spaces out the extra quarter of proscar all they way to once every 5 days then, but not once every 6 or 7?

Yes, I'd like to get below 0,5 -- and a few years ago did so -- but then this was close to the subsequent period where I was off it briefly for a couple weeks upon running out overseas, and experienced significant loss. So now I'd be happy to be at 0,5 and stable for at least a year first.

Yes you can strecht it (if you have to cut proscar). help yourself with fenugreek, it calms the itch and inflammation in the meanwhile.

 

[Editor Ed]

Yes, of course I'm cutting Proscar – we generally don't have the benefit of accurate, smaller dose availability. Yes, I am "stretching it" but whether stretching it out to 6-7 days for every 3/4 dose after each day of 1/2 dose (of 5 mg Proscar) makes sense when the half life is only up to about 5 days.

How is itch or inflammation involved? I don't believe I've experienced this – are you suggesting this is a known side effect to titrating down off of finesteride? Thank you.

 

[badhabiz]

Yes, of course I'm cutting Proscar – we generally don't have the benefit of accurate, smaller dose availability. Yes, I am "stretching it" but whether stretching it out to 6-7 days for every 3/4 dose after each day of 1/2 dose (of 5 mg Proscar) makes sense when the half life is only up to about 5 days.

How is itch or inflammation involved? I don't believe I've experienced this – are you suggesting this is a known side effect to titrating down off of finesteride? Thank you.

No i wasnt. It is just a common experience with AA, so i guessed you may want to calm it down. Fenugreek is a phytoestrogen that doesnt change your hormonal profile but gives you the benefits in terms of hair for my anecdotal experience. After the fifth day dht level tends to approach original status
Ps. Inflammation is part of the hairloss process, even if you dont feel it, except rare cases of deprivation

 

[Editor Ed]

Providing an update here, after many weeks into the titration of finesteride, and now essentially down to 2.5 mg from 3.75mg (previously 5mg), that some minor uptick in libido and changes in semen volume are observed. Shall see how this continues as we proceed in the coming weeks and months down to 1mg, and hopefully 0.5mg.