21 Years Of Finasteride/ Dutasteride ( Since 1998, Duta Since 2002).

[jamesbooker1975]

i thought topical spironolactone was generally regarded on the forums to be useless

Lol, People never use this as basement treatment and they want reverse baldness. Even if you remove your testicles, in most case, baldness it not reversible , at least for now.
All the papers done shows that is work, most on ACNE, but it reduce sebum secretion. Only antiandrogens can really reduce sebum secretion.
In all this years, I never new a single person that use only or tried only spironolactone cream as only treatment. How can you know if a treatment works if you are already on Finasteride or rogaine ? cause it don't give you better results ? that have none sense.

 

[sunchyme1]

Lol, People never use this as basement treatment and they want reverse baldness. Even if you remove your testicles, in most case, baldness it not reversible , at least for now.
All the papers done shows that is work, most on ACNE, but it reduce sebum secretion. Only antiandrogens can really reduce sebum secretion.
In all this years, I never new a single person that use only or tried only spironolactone cream as only treatment. How can you know if a treatment works if you are already on Finasteride or rogaine ? cause it don't give you better results ? that have none sense.

how would you compare finasteride to topical spironolactone?

i had bad sides on finasteride too

 

[jamesbooker1975]

1) I've seen alfa estradiol in some lotions, but the dosage is very low aiming to avoid systemic absorption.
2) Okay, this is new to me, so I wonder why people keep applying minoxidil (that is only a grow stimulator, it does not reverse male pattern baldness) if they can go with topical spironolactone (that blocks androgen receptors and could be really helpful to reverse male pattern baldness).

Forgot about 1) . If you apply that same low dose of beta estradiol, it will give you side effects.
Since we are posting on gourmetstylewellness.com , I think it deserve to check for this :
https://www.gourmetstylewellness.com/news/treatments/odorless-topical-spironolactone-lotion/ It also have a really interesting old interview to Dr. Lee. Youngers may don't know him, but he was the TOP doctor on hair loss treatments ( besides Dr. Proctor ) . HE created the extremly popular Xandrox lotion ( he is not longer selling it, FDA shoot him down , Merck and Rogaine owners cried to low )

 

[jamesbooker1975]

how would you compare finasteride to topical spironolactone?

i had bad sides on finasteride too

It will be irresponsible to say that is better cause I never used spironolactone alone . I can't even say that my results are from finasteride or dutasteride and not minoxidil, I really don't know. The only drug I used alone for enought time was minoxidil .

About side effects it will give you zero side effects, it have being searched since more than 30 years ago, 90 % of the papers about the topical use in acne. It works, and it don't go systemic.

If you have side effects from propecia, go for spironolactone cream at night , you can apply another topical first in case you are using minoxidil or any other.

 

[jamesbooker1975]

Okay, but if I was you, with all these things you took over the years, I won't blame only dutasteride if you fucked up your system.

Lol. You have no idea of what are you talking about. None sense on even give you a long answer.
Simple mention one hormone in the human body where you can suppress it a 90 % and will not give you side effects. You can not even suppress cholesterol on that % without several side effects.

 

[jamesbooker1975]

Im also gonna go the topical route. Bought s5 cream plus, reviviogen and i have propecia pills. Im gonna mix everything together and use it topically. If thats not enough Im gonna mix in cb too. As long as it has effect locally and the systematic absorption isn´t too great it should be good.

Don't !!!!
1) Finasteride applied it topical in a normal vehicle go systemic
2) Revivogen is almost a waste of time
3) Yes for the S5 cream plus, it really looks interesting. Never had access to tempol but was from Proctor and he was one of the 2 best Top hair loss docs .

If you still want to try revivogen, first apply revivogen and 15 or 20 minutes apart apply the cream. Alway the cream at the end not matter what else you use.

 

[MaxPayne3]

If it goes systemic, it works.
If spironolactone doesn't go systemic, it won't work.
In fact you don't know if it worked for you.

 

[sunchyme1]

Don't !!!!
1) Finasteride applied it topical in a normal vehicle go systemic
2) Revivogen is almost a waste of time
3) Yes for the S5 cream plus, it really looks interesting. Never had access to tempol but was from Proctor and he was one of the 2 best Top hair loss docs .

If you still want to try revivogen, first apply revivogen and 15 or 20 minutes apart apply the cream. Alway the cream at the end not matter what else you use.

why do you think revivogen is a waste of time?

have you heard of zix? theres big thread here about it

https://www.gourmetstylewellness.com/intera...ce-how-b6-and-zinc-have-saved-my-hair.101629/

both seem to be based on the zinc/b6 theory. and some people have good success with it.

 

[jamesbooker1975]

If it goes systemic, it works.
If spironolactone doesn't go systemic, it won't work.
In fact you don't know if it worked for you.

"If spironolactone doesn't go systemic, it won't work. " LOL ! Really ? so according to you, to block the androgen receptors you have to go systemic and block the entire androgen receptors from the body and not the folicle androgen receptor ? REALLY ! dude, you just win the Broscience novel price !!!!!!!!
If so hard to type topical spironolactone on pubmed and READ !?

 

[jamesbooker1975]

why do you think revivogen is a waste of time?

have you heard of zix? theres big thread here about it

https://www.gourmetstylewellness.com/intera...ce-how-b6-and-zinc-have-saved-my-hair.101629/

both seem to be based on the zinc/b6 theory. and some people have good success with it.

The problem with that theory is that Regrettably, there is not a single study done on humans. Althougt , there is a study that shows that zinc pyrithione have modest effect on male pattern baldness. And there are dozen of azelaic acid papers proving that it works great for acne. But revivogen not longer contain it. I think that there are better things to try, like Ketoconazole or miconazole.

The effects of minoxidil, 1% pyrithione zinc and a combination of both on hair density: A randomized controlled trial :
https://www.researchgate.net/public...on_hair_density_A_randomized_controlled_trial

Revivogen was based on this 1988 study ( not 1998, my mistake ) :
Inhibition of 5 alpha-reductase activity in human skin by zinc and azelaic acid.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3207614

 

[jamesbooker1975]

Sunchyme :
If you are interesting on Zinc/vit B6 you will like this, back from 2003 ! :
Waseda Zinc Oxide/B6/Ascorbic Acid :
http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=10&threadid=18957

 

[MaxPayne3]

"If spironolactone doesn't go systemic, it won't work. " LOL ! Really ? so according to you, to block the androgen receptors you have to go systemic and block the entire androgen receptors from the body and not the folicle androgen receptor ? REALLY ! dude, you just win the Broscience novel price !!!!!!!!
If so hard to type topical spironolactone on pubmed and READ !?

Well, that's similar to what happens with finasteride/dutasteride. To inhibit part of the DHT in the scalp you have to swallow a capsule that inhibits part of the DHT in the whole body.
And topical finasteride will go systemic anyway, so you'll end up to inhibit DHT in the rest of the body too.
If someone found something that inhibits DHT only in the scalp, he would win the Nobel.

I'll read something about what you are talking about, now I'm on the phone and can't.

 

[Comb_over]

Nice question. Really , really hard to tell. I just wished somebody told me in 1996, When I start the damn balding, that I can used minoxidil, alpha estradiol, spironolactone, etc. All that studies exist in 1996 . So, in resume Yes, I am regret. BUT I must admit cause then to finasteride/propecia I keep all my hair and I can hide the scars from the bad hair transplants.

I understand you. It sucks that before didn't have as much information as today. However, i doubt that you would had saved all your hair just on topical treatments.

 

[jamesbooker1975]

Well, that's similar to what happens with finasteride/dutasteride. To inhibit part of the DHT in the scalp you have to swallow a capsule that inhibits part of the DHT in the whole body.
And topical finasteride will go systemic anyway, so you'll end up to inhibit DHT in the rest of the body too.
If someone found something that inhibits DHT only in the scalp, he would win the Nobel.

I'll read something about what you are talking about, now I'm on the phone and can't.

Dude, you are so, so wrong. Have you ever heard about Breezula ? CB-03-01 ?
Nobody will win a nobel prize for a DHT inhibition !!!!!! Jesus, Now you have 2 Broscience novels ! Can you explain how minoxidil works or how ketoconzole works ? none of them go systemic on the dose uses. How tretinoin works ? etc

 

[jamesbooker1975]

I understand you. It sucks that before didn't have as much information as today. However, i doubt that you would had saved all your hair just on topical treatments.

Well, basically, we will never know it . No time machines in Argentina

 

[MaxPayne3]

Dude, you are so, so wrong. Have you ever heard about Breezula ? CB-03-01 ?
Nobody will win a nobel prize for a DHT inhibition !!!!!! Jesus, Now you have 2 Broscience novels ! Can you explain how minoxidil works or how ketoconzole works ? none of them go systemic on the dose uses. How tretinoin works ? etc

I don't know ketoconzole.
Nobody knows how minoxidil works, but topical minoxidil is not the same dose used in the oral treatment. If it does not go systemic, it's because the dose is low and it works only locally.
But you can't say the same on topical spironolactone, you don't even know if it worked for you.
If topical spironolactone really worked, people would use it instead of minoxidil.

I used minoxidil on my vertex for two years and my vertex is still with thin hair. The response is also subjective.

The point is: at equal doses, systemic absorption from topical application is much more than oral introduction.

 

[jamesbooker1975]

I don't know ketoconzole.
Nobody knows how minoxidil works, but topical minoxidil is not the same dose used in the oral treatment. If it does not go systemic, it's because the dose is low and it works only locally.
But you can't say the same on topical spironolactone, you don't even know if it worked for you.
If topical spironolactone really worked, people would use it instead of minoxidil.

I used minoxidil on my vertex for two years and my vertex is still with thin hair. The response is also subjective.

The point is: at equal doses, systemic absorption from topical application is much more than oral introduction.

Rogaine, minoxidil, is FDA approve, Nobody can sell more than an FDA approve treatment. Most of the people only thinks that exit two drugs to treat male pattern baldness. They don't even know about dutasteride.
IF you don't know about keto I strongly suggest you to do a research.
There are dozen of paper on spironolactone proving that it is active topical and it do not get systemic .It is up to you if you want to read it or not.

 

[sunchyme1]

Sunchyme :
If you are interesting on Zinc/vit B6 you will like this, back from 2003 ! :
Waseda Zinc Oxide/B6/Ascorbic Acid :
http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=10&threadid=18957

what are your thoughts on RU mate?

 

[jamesbooker1975]

what are your thoughts on RU mate?

Really don't know. For what I know, may be i am wrong, there is not any single study done in humans proven that it don't go systemic .
For what I can see on the macaque study and on personal experience on forums, it do work. It is a shame that not big lab made any clinical trial phase 2 . That is what it worry me about breezula , it is another small company .

 

[dr75]

No, in 1996 I used Minoxidil 2 % two times per day for 6 or 8 month. It really worked, but I was 18th, so dumb, no internet , etc. So I thought that if did not bring me to a norwood 0 did not work.
Finasteride, first time I tried it Was in 1997, after I read it on a news paper, and was proscar 5mg pills. For 3 month, then I stooped cause fall into scams like aminexil and ETG treatment..

I will split things that I used, That are proven to work with many studies, but, since I don't use it alone, I do not know how good they are. On the other side, there are things that I tried, and there is not chance it will not give side effects and I strongly not recommend it.

Treatment topicals that I tried that have tons of papers behind, are safe and I recommend :

Ketoconazole as cream, lotion and shampoo. I recommend the first two ( check the Japanese paper )
17-Alpha estradiol ( aka : alfaestradiol )
Spironolactone
Tretinoin
Latanoprost ( but at very low dose, the Xalatan dose )

Oral :
Isotretinoin ( low dose , 10 mg per day. Keep in mind we now know it inhibit DHT and more androgens like androstendione ) , In my case, I give it a try in 1995 ( 3 months ) and it worked great for my hair, but that time, I was already receding. And no, Broscience stay away. Accutane do not cause hair loss as androgenetic alopecia, only at really high dose cause telogen effluvium. Ironically, this fucked my liver enzymes lot less than Dutasteride.

Topical that I used but I DO NOT RECOMMEND cause it goes systemic :
Flutamide

Oral drugs I used I extremly DO NOT RECOMMEND cause side effects and cause are not better then they topical versions
Minoxidil
Spironolactone

Topicals that I used but don't have enought papers behind them and I can't say if it works :
Tacrolimus
Azelaic acid ( For what I know, this don't have papers, only the 1998 one, that is in vitro with Zinc and Vit B 6 )

So far, I don't remember any other thing I have tried.

Do you really think that topical spironolactone and 17 alpha estradiol would stop pattern baldness without them being systemically absorbed? Then why domany users here find topical spironolactone useless? I don't know much about 17 alpha estradiol other than the female pattern hair loss study so i would appreciate if you share the studies.

Do you really believe that you could have kept your hair all these years without oral 5 alpha reductase inhibitors? I think if it weren't for dutasteride, you would be bald by now.