21 Years Of Finasteride/ Dutasteride ( Since 1998, Duta Since 2002).

[jamesbooker1975]

guillermo,
I've been in these boards a long time and remember reading many of your posts. I'm sorry to hear about the issues you've been having. Did you measure any of your hormones before last year when you started having sides?

Do u think finasteride is safer than dutasteride? Have you thought about going back to finasteride?

I had no idea liver enzymes can be affected by dutasteride as they are not affected by finasteride.

Do u experience scalp inflammation and what do u recommend to help it?

Also, do u still own pillsforall?

Hope u recover soon my friend

abovedgame, thanks for your reply.
Yes, but like I said, no DHT since it not available here.
First at all, may stupid doctors only check if the testosterone levels are in the range, but most of them do not check your age ! cause you need another table to check it. So my testosterone levels, check at 33 ( 6 years ago ) was in the range, but if you use the variable age, was a 60 years old man levels !
I have a daugther now and to finally get my wife pregnant ( after a year of trying ) I took Arimidex for 3 month . By that time, I was still a finasteride/ dutasteride groupie

Yes, finasteride is safer, first at all, for what I know, finasteride do not mess with your liver. But, again you can not lower 70% of on hormone without having side effects.

But even so, if you want to use it, CHECK your DHT levels, may be they are high and you can download to a certain levels where it will not give you side effects but you will also have to check your estrogens levels, cause it ying/yang . DHT also compete against estrogens. So inhibit DHT will cause estrogen dominance so an anti aromatase could be a must. So it is a real " surgical " job to do .

But keep in mind, that alpha reductase it in a lot more reaction than simple create DHT.

 

[sunchyme1]

what does your body look like man?

is it a mess?

you got any body hair at all?

 

[jamesbooker1975]

But it was approved in South Korea at 0.5 mg every day for hair loss treatment. I don't think they're fool.

Another culture, for a korean guy going bald is worst like loosing the dick. Why do you think that after 15 years Glaxo finished the phase 2 was never done the phase 3 in USA ? why not in a single Occident country was approved for male pattern baldness ? IN Argentina Glaxo did the phase 3 in the " hospital de clinicas " several years ago ( you can google " hospital de clinicas dutasteride " ) was not even submitted to the ANMAT ( fda here ) .

This guys prooved on phase 2 and show it that is far, far effective than finasteride 5mg ( not even 1mg ) ! and they did not made the phase 3 in USA ! simple question, why ?

 

[jamesbooker1975]

Hello, I'm sorry to read that.
Do you think that all those issues were caused by dutasteride? You took oral spironolactone and that would explain why your testosterone is so low. DHT inibitors should raise T levels.

What do you suggest to a young man that want to take dutasteride? Is 0.5 mg every other day safe?

I took oral spironolactone back in 2001-2002 ! also, spironolactone do not lower the testosterone, simple block the receptors. Anyway, I took it for only 7 month and that is almost 16 years ago.

For me was hard to understand and I even mocked ones that talked about finasteride/dutasteride side effects. Now, it is so clear for me, that is hard to explain cause it is actually a logical thing, you can`t block 70 or 90 % of a natural hormone in your body without side effects and without messing up with the whole hormone system.

Why Merck never released a long study data on finasteride consumers ? it was a drug that hit the market in 1992s . What about blood works of people using it for 15 or 20 years and compare to other peoples that never use it ? In pubmed there are more and more new studies showing the side effects .

 

[jamesbooker1975]

Did you switch to dutasteride because you would really losing ground or just out of paranoia? Would you ever consider going back to .5 mg - 1mg of finasteride?

Nice Question, paranoia is the answer. Back in 2002 everybody thought that dutasteride was the " cure " . And, in a certain way it is, if they can do that in the topical way, without systemic absorption, it is. In Oral way is a bad joke.

 

[MaxPayne3]

Another culture, for a korean guy going bald is worst like loosing the dick. Why do you think that after 15 years Glaxo finished the phase 2 was never done the phase 3 in USA ? why not in a single Occident country was approved for male pattern baldness ? IN Argentina Glaxo did the phase 3 in the " hospital de clinicas " several years ago ( you can google " hospital de clinicas dutasteride " ) was not even submitted to the ANMAT ( fda here ) .

This guys prooved on phase 2 and show it that is far, far effective than finasteride 5mg ( not even 1mg ) ! and they did not made the phase 3 in USA ! simple question, why ?

I got the point. Anyway, seems like I'm a Korean guy even if I'm not Korean because I don't care about my dick. I just want my hair and I think that dutasteride is what I need. The only thing I don't want is gynecomastia, but I shouldn't get this side effect because I'm not going to take Avodart every day.

 

[jamesbooker1975]

Finasteride and Dutasteride are DHT inhibitors. If you inhibit DHT, testosterone and estrogens will increase.
If he got issues with testosterone, maybe it's the oral spironolactone that blocked his androgen receptors and gave him gynecomastia.

1) I used spironolactone oral back in 2001-2002 for 7 months .
2) The " increase free testosterone, and estrogens " are studies done on 6 month. What happen at 6 years ? 12 years ? 20 years ?
Also Estrogen and DHT is ying/yang , DHT counteract many Estrogen effects and vice versa. Without DHT there is not just the increase on Estrogen, it happen what it is called estrogen dominance.

 

[MaxPayne3]

I took oral spironolactone back in 2001-2002 ! also, spironolactone do not lower the testosterone, simple block the receptors. Anyway, I took it for only 7 month and that is almost 16 years ago.

For me was hard to understand and I even mocked ones that talked about finasteride/dutasteride side effects. Now, it is so clear for me, that is hard to explain cause it is actually a logical thing, you can`t block 70 or 90 % of a natural hormone in your body without side effects and without messing up with the whole hormone system.

Why Merck never released a long study data on finasteride consumers ? it was a drug that hit the market in 1992s . What about blood works of people using it for 15 or 20 years and compare to other peoples that never use it ? In pubmed there are more and more new studies showing the side effects .

But spironolactone is more effective than finasteride, even if it doesn't decrease testosterone levels. MtF women take it for growing boobs, this is a side effect that dutasteride doesn't have, or at least with less probabilities.
I think you can't blame DHT inhibitors if you mistake your treatment and it's clearly that spironolactone is not what you needed.

Nice Question, paranoia is the answer. Back in 2002 everybody thought that dutasteride was the " cure " . And, in a certain way it is, if they can do that in the topical way, without systemic absorption, it is. In Oral way is a bad joke.

Systemic absorption is more effective through topicals because the substances bypass the liver, so the side effects would be much more.

 

[michel sapin]

Did finasteride or dutasteride caused you gynecomastia ?
you swithc to duta because fina didn't maintain?

 

[MaxPayne3]

1) I used spironolactone oral back in 2001-2002 for 7 months .
2) The " increase free testosterone, and estrogens " are studies done on 6 month. What happen at 6 years ? 12 years ? 20 years ?
Also Estrogen and DHT is ying/yang , DHT counteract many Estrogen effects and vice versa. Without DHT there is not just the increase on Estrogen, it happen what it is called estrogen dominance.

Okay, so tell me that, why trans women just don't take only dutasteride to do their transition?
Maybe because estrogen dominance caused by dutasteride is not enough to feminize the body?

 

[sunchyme1]

@Razzabo check this thread out man

 

[g.i joey]

Theres a reason why Dutasteride was never approved by the FDA so it shouldnt be shocking witnessing cases like this. I dont blame op at all because we all do things out of desperation to keep our hair, but it shouldnt be surprising when you take a drug for long term that doesnt even pass your countries pharmaceutical approvals, and you end up with some unwanted side effects.

 

[Razzabo]

I am sorry this happened to you. If you were getting such severe side effects that included depression, anxiety, and panic attacks in addition to sexual problems then why did you continue to take the medicine? Were you that desperate to save your hair? I am sorry that you had this experience but not everybody does and some people take dutasteride for male pattern baldness and are fine or even take it for BPH and are fine. I am not trying to minimize the trauma of your experience but I have studied pharmacology (I'm pre med) there are many medicines other than just finasteride and dutasteride that can cause serious sexual dysfunctions and even neurohormone damage. The truth is that finasteride and dutasteride are well tolerated compared to the vast majority of other medications, many of which have the chance of causing seizures and death. I am sorry you were one of the ones who had a side effect. I, personally, was on SSRIs before I ever started finasteride and those have a MUCH greater chance of causing sexual problems and mental problems than finasteride. I was fine on them and I have to be on them for life so I figured I might as well give finasteride a try. No side effects from it either. Again I am sorry that this happened to you.

You studied pharmacology? So you read a pharma book? Wow. Good job.. I'm sure you thought Vioxx was safe as well.

 

[abcdefg]

so you dont have baseline readings for any of those just the most recent ones once you had problems. Without the baseline readings how do we know those didnt develop naturally?
Well you took oral spironolactone, dutasteride, and finasteride all for significant periods of time. Those issues could be from any of them so it certainly doesnt prove out that finasteride or even the dutasteride you took that long caused this. Although I guess dutasteride is the one you used the longest.

 

[jamesbooker1975]

I got the point. Anyway, seems like I'm a Korean guy even if I'm not Korean because I don't care about my dick. I just want my hair and I think that dutasteride is what I need. The only thing I don't want is gynecomastia, but I shouldn't get this side effect because I'm not going to take Avodart every day.

Dutasteride will not, probably, give you gymecomastia but remember it will also f*** your cholesterol levels, neurohormones levels and livers Enzymes will increase.

what does your body look like man?

is it a mess?

you got any body hair at all?

Okay, so tell me that, why trans women just don't take only dutasteride to do their transition?
Maybe because estrogen dominance caused by dutasteride is not enough to feminize the body?

Sorry, but what are you telling it have none sense. You can reduce an hormone enought to have side effects, and not for that reason you will be convert it into a women. You are interpreting the Estrogen dominance theory in the wrong way. I don't blame you , I was a groupie too.

A tansgender need to reduce the testosterone to extreme low levels, women levels and estrogens to women levels. So, even if they reduce their testosterone by half and double their estrogen levels it will not an effective transgender regimen. But to a man, that will have really by side effects.

 

[jamesbooker1975]

Did finasteride or dutasteride caused you gynecomastia ?
you swithc to duta because fina didn't maintain?

No, it did not but it fat tent to accumulate in zones where It should not, specially cause I do hard training 5 times per week since I was 14.
Most probably will not give you real gyno, like for example, oral spironolactone do but it will cause you " soft" pects look ( that is not gyno )

 

[jamesbooker1975]

You studied pharmacology? So you read a pharma book? Wow. Good job.. I'm sure you thought Vioxx was safe as well.

No dude, I am a pharmacist, an university one.

 

[Razzabo]

No dude, I am a pharmacist, an university one.

Was replying to the other guy, not you man.

You know this sh*t is poison which I'm glad you do.

 

[jamesbooker1975]

what does your body look like man?

is it a mess?

you got any body hair at all?

No, but I train 5 times per week ( gym plus Martial Arts ) . I eat extremely well. First thought that, for example, the liver enzymes was caused cause high protein diets, but the last lab test, almost 3 month after I dropped from 7 caps per week to 2 caps per week, my ALT and AST drop significantly for fist time .

I have v low body hair in the entire body and also my face hair . Once since I noted, since it reduced Dutasteride and take examestane, is that I have to shave more often .

So, my body don't look like a mess but my hormone levels are. Should be nice if others that have being taking for so long this kind of meds show they bloodworks, will be really interesting. For what I an read, other guy on this post put that with Finasteride his progesterone levels was almost 0. Wonder, for example, how many people on Finasteride check his progesterone levels.

 

[abcdefg]

Im still not convinced that if you stuck to something like finasteride you would have all these issues. The only big issue finasteride has is it shouldnt be changing neurosteroids at all. Of course merk will never redesign or change it to avoid that, but it should be that the pharma companies go back and fix problems with earlier drugs.