A serious question about finasteride. Opinions please

[msab1990]

I know most of you out there are either sick of defending finasteride or again there's the other end of the scale with the absolute fanatical anti-finasteride people. I'm just here to get hopefully a few opinions from people who have had similar experiences (if you want to call mine experiences at all). I'm about a 3V (I think?) on the Norwood scale and have recently armed myself with the big 3 to prevent hairloss and hopefully thicken what I already have. I went out just over a month ago and got myself a month's supply of finasteride, started taking that, and recently added in minoxidil and Nizoral for about the last 5 days. I had read before taking finasteride that there was the chance of some sexual side effects, and for the first few days I had a slight dull ache in my balls (I've heard this is quite usual). Now before I go on with the next part, I want to make the point that around the same time I started taking finasteride, I made some big changes in my life. I had been broken up with my girlfriend for little over a month and I had also just started an intense physical fitness program, along with becoming very proactive in fixing my mental health, career goals, life goals etc. Also worth noting here that I have chronic OCD and will obsess about anything, which hasn't helped in my response to finasteride. Now here's my problem.

Probably a week in (I can't really remember), I went to do my business and noticed that I couldn't quite get it hard and actually ejaculated very close to the point of getting hard/not even being fully hard (this isn't unusual for me, I've had numerous sexual experiences where I get a bit excited and c*m very quickly, I don't even really care because it's normally just a first time thing, I'm good after that). I can't say I've really noticed a reduced libido as I'm so busy that I'm not really the masturbate every day kind of guy and it doesn't bother me to be honest if I go a month or two without sex. I had a few similar experiences to this over the next month, but noticed within the first week or so that I couldn't maintain erections as well. They would still be hard as a rock, just couldn't keep them up unless I was engaged. Then a few nights ago, with only two pills to go left in my supply before re-ordering, I went about my business and again, got it up and then came very quickly. I then went to see if this was a side effect of finasteride and BOOM! A litany of forums, people, etc all claiming these wild sexual side effects from finasteride and I freaked out. I threw my last two tablets away, and swore I would just ride out the baldness. The next day went by, and then that night I didn't take my finasteride around the same time I normally would, I went to bed convinced that everything would be all good. I then got a spontaneous sexual fantasy and massive hard on, which didn't require any effort to maintain and could have jerked it for hours (SORRY FOR THE DETAILS), then woke up in the morning with a huge morning glory. I went to work and could actually feel that I was ridiculously horny. This was all within 24-36 hours of going off finasteride. Is it possible for finasteride to be out of my system after just that long? Have I just read a bit too much into the side effects and should I just stick it out? I've heard of people just taking a few weeks to adjust and that some of these sides go away.

And my other question is, what are people's overall opinions of Minoxidil and Nizoral alone as a hairloss treatment? I KNOW I'M NOT GOING TO KEEP MY HAIR. I just want to know how long people honestly think I can keep the damage at bay for. My hairloss I would say was pretty aggressive between the age of 20-22 (I'm turning 23 this year and it's levelled out a bit), but it's still not that noticeable unless you see it from the top.

Also worth noting here that I kind of rushed into finasteride usage at the massive 5mg a day range (I didn't know there was a difference, just ordered online and started popping before I realised I had a 5mg tablet!), and the last few days before stopping I was actually quartering my pills.

Thanks guys.

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Sorry, forgot to mention that I had some trouble sleeping, notably waking up during the middle of the night and one night had a hot flush in the middle of the night, which was around the two week mark. But it's also worth noting there that I've only just quit cigarettes and marijuana use about the same time I started using finasteride. So many variables, I know!

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And another thing, I don't want some anti-finasteride nut coming in here saying "OH GOD YOUR PENIS IS GOING TO FALL OFF". Please, just don't.

 

[Heyman]

If you stop, you need ~ 2 weeks at least for your hormones to return to baseline. So it seems like it was in your head to be honest, after 24 hours your DHT is still blocked to a good degree.

Read this study:

http://archderm.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=480677#ref-dst30121-5

no difference in erectile function. You would at least have thought some people would have noticed a difference, but apparently not. Most studies on finasteride show about half the sexual side effects in the placebo, meaning everyone here posting about a sexual side effect actually has a 50% chance that the side effect was caused by something entirely else.

 

[Rawtashk]

You know what's happened? You're looking too hard to TRY to find something wrong, because you're EXPECTING side effects to happen.

 

[msab1990]

I know you're probably right. That's why I thought it was important to mention that I have chronic OCD to begin with, and if anybody knows about OCD, you'll know a common symptom is constantly checking things. For me, I'm obsessing about this at the moment and I'll read one good, one bad, one good, one bad. I just wish taking finasteride wasn't such a Russian Roulette! Despite the fact I think a lot of people are just blaming finasteride for whatever problem they have (I'm logical enough to figure that one out), everybody has to admit there is a percentage out there suffering from side effects, and I'd hazard a guess saying it's larger than the 1.5 % or whatever Merck is claiming. Rawtashk, I notice you're pretty seasoned at this hair loss thing, what are your opinions on topical solutions like spironolactone, etc? For example, would a combination of spironolactone, minoxidil and Nizoral have even HALF the effectiveness of the traditional big 3? I think I'm just gonna bite the bullet and go get more finasteride today. I've been off it two days and been horny as hell, and from what I understand it would take at least a few weeks for that effect to come back HAD I even been suffering from true sides.

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well, I sucked it up and got another month's supply. I'm approaching it with a clean slate of thought, staying off these forums for the purposes of searching for something to be wrong and just giving it a real shot. I read from you somewhere else, Rawtashk, that some people just take a little time to adjust? I mean, I only had a floppy dick moment once about a week or so in, and since then I've probably been my normal self. On a more positive note, I actually think a month's supply of finasteride at the high dosage of 5mg a day has done something, because I'm noticeably thinner in my crown since I started, is it possible to shed this soon?

 

[Rawtashk]

First off...5mg a day? Why so much? There's minimal gain at 5mg over 1mg, and you'll be at a larger risk for potential side effects. If you ARE dosing at 5mg (and that wasn't just a typo), then quit that now. Quarter the pills and take ONE QUARTER once a day.

Ok, here's the first thing you do....you have to realize how INSANELY POWERFUL of a tool your brain is.
So, step 1 is to go read this article. Don't skip it and come back to it, READ IT NOW, then come back and finish

5 Terrifying Killers (That Turned Out to be Mass Panics)
http://www.cracked.com/article_1923...rned-out-to-be-mass-panics.html#ixzz2dTQThio6
Come back when you're done...I'll be waiting. .
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Ok. So you read that. See how powerful your brain is If someone tells you that you're going to get sick (etc), and you look for it....you're going to get sick. Same thing goes for the side effects of propecia. You yourself said that you were perfectly fine up until you started to think about it. Once you start thinking about that, it's all downhill. You stop thinking about sex and you start focusing on other things. "****, is this as hard as it normally is ****, what if it's not What if I'm having side effects What if I can never get a boner again!!! WHAT THE ****!!!!!!" I don't know of any man that could maintain an erection with all of that running through their head.


Are you currently gainfully employed Let's say that your boss just came into your office and said Msab1990, you're fired. You have 30 minutes to pack up and leave. Now a random Victoria's Secret supermodel comes into your office and says let's bang first. You're currently worried about packing up, walking out without your co-workers staring at you, and worried about how you're going to find a new job and pay your bills. Do you think you'd be able to get it up with all of that on your mind I don't know about you, but I know for sure that I couldn't get it up if Megan Fox was standing naked in front of me.

 

[msab1990]

haha, funnily enough, I had already read that article that you posted somewhere else. I honestly think I'm fine, and since I've started thinking about it so much, I have probably noticed a decrease in libido - BECAUSE I'M THINKING ABOUT IT SO MUCH. On the 5mg a day thing, yeah, I'm kind of new to all of this, ordered my pills online and just started popping them rather naively. It wasn't until I read the packaging that I said holy ****, these are 5mg, and I had read I should be splitting them. They were Npecia by the way. I wasn't aware that there appears to be a much larger percentage than 2 % affected by side effects. I'm not arguing or starting a fight or anything, but even the staunchest defenders of Finasteride must realise by now that lowered libido and ability to maintain erections, etc are more common than Merck will say. But I mean, seriously I can deal with a slightly lowered libido, as I said to a friend about this the other day, unless it comes to a point where I cannot get it up for the life of me, I'm not too worried. Never the less, I have been on a 1 mg a day dosage for the past week, and my plan is to stop using them for a month, and honestly assess if there is any difference (I don't think there will be), before going back on at a .5mg or 1mg dosage, JUST TO BE SAFE. I appreciate your opinions though man, I've seen you popping up around and you obviously know your stuff, so if you don't mind I've just got two quick questions. 1. Have you yourself ever experienced any mild side effects? As I said, unless my dick's falling off or I'm infertile, I'm not too worried about it. And number 2, with my current hairloss situation, I'm a Nw3 or 3 Vertex (I think), and I was wondering, if I just want to maintain what I've got (which I'd be quite happy with) and regrow the areas where I haven't lost too much, would a daily regimen of Rogaine liquid (twice daily), Revivogen, Topical spironolactone (twice daily) and Nizoral have the same or even anything close to the same effectiveness as a combination of Rogaine, Propecia and Nizoral? I've read from somewhere that combination can have the same effectiveness if started early enough.



Thanks dude.

 

[Heyman]

hI'm not arguing or starting a fight or anything, but even the staunchest defenders of Finasteride must realise by now that lowered libido and ability to maintain erections, etc are more common than Merck will say.

Why? Seriously, I believe that if effects are there, they should be measurable. Did you read the study I posted?

http://archderm.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=480677#ref-dst30121-5

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11763381

I'd really like to get a full text of this:

http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/09546634.2013.813011

IMO one of the problems is that you can actually see if finasteride works and has an effect on your body because people obsess about their hair. Which means even in placebo-controlled studies, there might be a nocebo effect. And look at the study about that.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17655657

I guess the reason for the higher rates of sexual effects here (apart from the nocebo effect) is also that it was about the prostate, so likely older people involved...

What certainly is established is that you can take finasteride and a few months later your libido and erectile function can be better compared to before you started. Its not like everyone on it will take a huge hit and end up with a lowered libido.

 

[msab1990]

Thanks for your opinions guys, I'm going to stick with it. After all, I had one noticeable issue, on ONE occasion that has resolved itself now anyway (bit of a floppy erection). I probably shouldn't have bombarded my body with 5mg to start. I'm cutting my 1 mg tablets and taking half a day. Any opinions on the spironolactone/Revivo/Nizoral/Rogaine approach if I do experience serious enough sides though?

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My only other concern was my age. I'm only 22, and it was one of my lines of thinking that my body probably hasn't completely matured yet and it's probably not the best idea to mess with hormone balances, etc at this age. A lot of the success stories I've seen with finasteride (and again, this is all just from what I've observed), are from older guys, while younger guys seem to be more susceptible to sides. Could just be pure coincidence though.

 

[Heyman]

My only other concern was my age. I'm only 22, and it was one of my lines of thinking that my body probably hasn't completely matured yet and it's probably not the best idea to mess with hormone balances, etc at this age. A lot of the success stories I've seen with finasteride (and again, this is all just from what I've observed), are from older guys, while younger guys seem to be more susceptible to sides. Could just be pure coincidence though.

IMO its coincidence. There is some research indicating up to 30% of young people have ED from time to time. Its not as uncommon as you may think, and the 30% that are on some kind of medication probably blame it on that. Not saying it can't be the medication, but obviously some attribute it wrongly.

Again, side effects may happen and this should be considered, I don't want to downplay that. Everyone should outweigh the certain side-effect of losing hair vs the improbable (or very small) effect of libido problems.

 

[badgenetics1]

My only other concern was my age. I'm only 22, and it was one of my lines of thinking that my body probably hasn't completely matured yet and it's probably not the best idea to mess with hormone balances, etc at this age. A lot of the success stories I've seen with finasteride (and again, this is all just from what I've observed), are from older guys, while younger guys seem to be more susceptible to sides. Could just be pure coincidence though.

I'm relatively young (mid-20s) and I haven't experienced any negative sides due to Propecia yet (have been on it for a little over a month). In fact, I've experienced the opposite - I've had an increased libido, more intense orgasms, stronger erections, etc. While Propecia might play a role in that, I'm attributing it to the fact that in conjunction with starting a hair loss regimen, I also started eating much better and working out regularly. It's good to be aware of the potential for sides, but worrying too much will result in you attributing everything negative to Propecia.

As for the spironolactone/Revivogen combo to replace Propecia, I'm not sure whether it would be enough. It could be, there just isn't the data or studies out there to support it. I've actually started including spironolactone in my regimen since it should hopefully complement the effects of Propecia.