A topical that works as well as Finasteride or a decent one?

[I_Hate_DHT]

Sorry to ask, but is that the same guy??

When those companies show us a lack of pictures and they are not clear, people tend to believe they are a scam..

With all the digi cams we have nowadays, why would a company show these blur and strange pictures and make people believe they are a scam? What if the product really works? They could easily buy a cheap digi cam, and take lots of clear pictures, that show clear and with no doubt that the product works.

 

[bubka]

i mean if the stuff is so great, take ten bald guys, pay them $100 a month to use your product, and then post the progress, with pictures, if it is

"unquestionably more effective than Propecia"

then that investment would be minuscule to the potential profits

but no, none of that...

 

[Dave001]

I am sure this has been posted hundreds of times elsewhere but on the subject of Ell Cranell, I thought that this would be the appropriate thread to post the results of a small but nonetheless significant study on Ell Cranell from December 2005: -

As far as Androgenetic Alopecia studies go, this one is large. And in a sea of threads about "shedding", this is a valuable contribution.

‹abstract snipped›

It's unfortunate that hair counts appear not to have been collected. Treatment outcome was evaluated similarly in the one other human study of topical 17α-estradiol. If anagen/telogen status is to be used as an indicator of success, the parameter should be measured at intervals of exactly one year to account for seasonal fluctuations.

More important, there were no control subjects, so we don't know whether the effects were from the vehicle.

 

[Dave001]

I tend to trust what he says when making such overall evaluations. I certainly don't agree with him on every little technical issue that comes up, but I think he's an honest guy. I can't imagine that he would make such a bold statement, if he didn't really believe it.

Edit: removed my overly harsh remark about Proctor.

(After having attempted to locate the picture with the fraudulent product-photo association that was posted to this thread, I was irritated by his search engine spamming techniques. Not knowing him well enough, I would not go so far as to say that he is dishonest, although whether certain statements of his are true is another matter entirely. My guess is that he probably does believe most of what he says, even if it requires a little stretch of imagination on his part.)

 

[Phillip]

Hmm, College always advocates Eucapil. I think its topical but not sure.

 

[bubka]

no offense, but what doesn't CCS advocate?

from their website:

http://www.eucapil.com/xhtml_en/hair.shtml

almost same hair less flash anyone?

 

[Bryan]

OK, lets see if we are talking about the same thing then...

Yep. That's it.

i mean to me, i see a guy who probably had some regrowth, but had the short fuzz cut short at the before, and let it grow longer with the regrowth as well... not to mention the head angle is different to show less forehead

If you're going to try to deny those remarkable pictures just by claiming trickery and chicanery, then I guess there's not much point in even discussing it any further.

Bryan

 

[Old Baldy]

Bryan: I always thought those before and after pictures were from a Proxiphen rx user?

http://www.drproctor.com/Proxtx.html

 

[viperfish]

Bryan: I always thought those before and after pictures were from a Proxiphen rx user?

http://www.drproctor.com/Proxtx.html

Those are from a proxiphen rx user. The other picture on his site is from someone using the nano shampoo. I don't believe there are any pictures for proxiphen-n, except for the pictures of the mice. If the shampoo alone works that good then proxiphen-n should work much better. However, I do agree with everyone that Proctor has been in the business for 20 years. He should def. have more pictures available on his site. I don't understand why he does not. Although, looking at his site you can tell very little has been done with it since he first put it up. It looks ancient.

 

[viperfish]

Bryan,

I just feel at this point that propecia is simply the best we have got. Unfortunately, I cannot use propecia and have tried twice. Therefore, I am using proxiphen rx as I feel it is the best. I have seen before and after pictures of propecia users that simply blow me away. I have yet to see this from proxiphen. The only thing in Proxiphen that is counter acting DHT is spironolactone, correct? I have never had luck with spironolactone in the past and don't believe it is enough to take care of the root cause of hairloss.

There also appears to very little user feedback on proxiphen. However, I do believe this is because people do not give it enough time to see changes. Also I do not believe many of us are using proxiphen. I don't question the science behind the product. It is jam packed with kick-*** ingredients, some some exotic and some not. I really wish Proctor would support his product with testimonials and pictures on his website. This is seriously lacking. It should not be lacking if the guy has been in the business for 20 years. His site should be packed with photos from his clinic.

 

[Old Baldy]

I think Retin-A can reduce the amount of AR's? Not sure if it is in Proxiphen rx any longer? Plus, Dr. Proctor puts zinc sulphate in his stuff. Doesn't zinc reduce 5ARI a little?

 

[bubka]

OK, lets see if we are talking about the same thing then...

Yep. That's it.

i mean to me, i see a guy who probably had some regrowth, but had the short fuzz cut short at the before, and let it grow longer with the regrowth as well... not to mention the head angle is different to show less forehead

If you're going to try to deny those remarkable pictures just by claiming trickery and chicanery, then I guess there's not much point in even discussing it any further.

Bryan

I said it seems like there is some regrowth, typical minoxidil like regrowth, but something that you had to pick yourself of the "ground" and dust off about... wow

i mean, the lighting is different, the hair style is longer, and the angle is different too, you cannot even see the eyebrows and half of the forehead in the after shot... this is hardly

"unquestionably more effective than Propecia"

if it was, why are there not awesome regrowth pictures all over the place??? if the guy wanted to sell his product that he claims is better than propecia, you would think he could have pictures to show it

 

[Bryan]

Bryan: I always thought those before and after pictures were from a Proxiphen rx user?

http://www.drproctor.com/Proxtx.html

Yes. Felk and Viperfish pointed that out, too. It's rather false advertising on the part of the Web site that posted those pictures next to a bottle of Prox-N! :wink:

Bryan

 

[Old Baldy]

Bubka: If you don't think those are great results I don't know if anything will work for you?

 

[Bryan]

Bryan,

I just feel at this point that propecia is simply the best we have got.

You "just" feel that way?

Unfortunately, I cannot use propecia and have tried twice. Therefore, I am using proxiphen rx as I feel it is the best. I have seen before and after pictures of propecia users that simply blow me away. I have yet to see this from proxiphen.

Huh?? What about the ones that have been posted here??

The only thing in Proxiphen that is counter acting DHT is spironolactone, correct?

I assume that you're referring specifically to antiandrogens and 5a-reductase inhibitors. Yes, that's probably correct.

I have never had luck with spironolactone in the past and don't believe it is enough to take care of the root cause of hairloss.

That's one of the areas where I also disagree with Dr. Proctor. I think topical spironolactone is only a rather mediocre antiandrogen.

There also appears to very little user feedback on proxiphen.

Well, nowadays there isn't a whole lot of feedback. But I assume that you've seen that long list of positive posts from alt.baldspot which I've posted in the past? Those were from a few years ago.

However, I do believe this is because people do not give it enough time to see changes.

Yes. That's a problem, too. People tend to have this mind-set where they think to themselves: "Wow...for $100 a month, I guess I'll probably start to see results after the first month!"

Also I do not believe many of us are using proxiphen. I don't question the science behind the product. It is jam packed with kick-*** ingredients, some some exotic and some not. I really wish Proctor would support his product with testimonials and pictures on his website. This is seriously lacking. It should not be lacking if the guy has been in the business for 20 years. His site should be packed with photos from his clinic.

I pretty much agree with everything you said there.

Ever since alt.baldspot died-off as a result of the "Ernie Phenomenon", it looks like Dr. Proctor hasn't taken a very active role in discussing or supporting his products with the public. I wish he would go back to doing that. And yes, I wish he would post more pictures on his Web site.

Bryan

 

[techprof]

I still have respect for Dr. Proctor. Remember every doctor in the world from lee to klein and all doctors use various concoctions of minoxidil in different combinations.

Dr. Proctor provides alternative solutions. He is very bad in marketing and advertising.
He sells spintrap for 65$. The bottle says 1 oz. But it contains 60 ml (same size as proxiphen-N).

Also, for proxiphen-N he says 2-4 months supply. He can give a dropper and ask us to use 0.33 ml everyday (same as he recommends). His two month supply costing 60$ will come for 6 months. That is 10$ per month for prox-N and affordable for everyone.

He could say twice a day and it will still be 20$ per month. He never spent any time to trivial details like this. Also, as Bryan and others say he needs to post more pictures.

He should update and modify his website. Sometimes his online orders don't work.

All said and done, I still think prox-N will be more effective than minoxidil in the long run and finasteride/dutasteride + prox-N will stop anyone from balding further.

 

[Old Baldy]

FWIW Bryan, Techprof and Viper - I agree. I wonder if Dr. Proctor has any new stuff in the pipeline?

I also wish he'd participate in forums again.

 

[CCS]

I think Retin-A can reduce the amount of AR's? Not sure if it is in Proxiphen rx any longer? Plus, Dr. Proctor puts zinc sulphate in his stuff. Doesn't zinc reduce 5ARI a little?

I know copper sulphate is very corrosive. I hope the zink sulphate is not. I'd have to look up the solubility product constant for zink 2+.

 

[CCS]

That's one of the areas where I also disagree with Dr. Proctor. I think topical spironolactone is only a rather mediocre antiandrogen.
post more pictures on his Web site.

Bryan

That is disturbing. Do you just mean it is not strong enough by itself, or do you think it would give little help to men on dutasteride? If I can get rid of all DHT, do you think spironolactone cream could give the effect of half as much testosterone?

 

[CCS]

I just looked up the ksp of zink sulphate. Sure enough. The zink sulfate dissolves in water (cation and anion separate) just fine. Then the zink binds with OH- in the water, and the zink hydroxide is insoluble. This leaves and excess of H+ in the liquid. That is why the prox-N has a pH of 2.2. That is about 10x as acidic as coke, but 1% as acidic as 1M hydrochloric acid. The copper sulphate is worse. But I'm not going to put straight prox-N on my scalp anymore. I'm quite annoyed DrP put zink sulfate in there.