A Year and Almost 7 months, Please help!!!

PJ Worshipper

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Ok I've been on propecia, minoxidil, and nizoral since april of '04. My hair looked like crap, thinning and all. Then my hair improved. By the 1 year mark my hair was full, JFK Jr. style. Then all the sudden, in june my hair started thinning again rapidly. Just thought is was a shed. but it's now Oct. and every time I run my fingers or comb or wash it, a ton is comming out. My left side had a dent when I started, then filled up, now itdented worse then when I started. A year and 7 months. Has this happened to anyone else? What's happening? Should I do anything different? My major concern is IU don't think it's growing back like it did before. It's like the medicine just stopped working. Someone please help me!!! Thanks!
 

tenshi

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Hey I feel bad no one has responded to your post. I really don't know what to say though. Have you been taking pictures of your progress and comparing them to accurately gauge your hair over the past 19 months? I really don't know what to say, but this post will bring this thread to the top of the list. Somebody give this man some advice!
 

Radio

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Maybe you have just had a shed and it has run into a seasonal shed, Sept-Oct seems to be the time for this for people in Northen hemisphere.

I always thin out a tiny bit in Sept-Oct, I am sure many no male pattern baldness people do but it will be much more noticeable in those with thin hair.

Only a guess.

Give it time, you know these medications work for you, just stick with it is the only sound advice I can offer.
 

tenshi

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goodone.jpg


Anybody else wanna chime in?
 

The Gardener

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PJW, you really have to bite the bullet and ride through the hair cycling. What you describe is very common.

Let me try to explain a little bit to you about the nature of hair growth, and hopefully you'll feel a little more at ease about your situation. Basically, hair grows in cycles. It starts, takes about three months to reach a length to pop its head out and be seen above the surface of the skin, and then it continually grows for a few years. Then, the hair follicle stops growing, and the hair shaft comes loose from the follicle base, and it sits there, in your head, but not attached, for months. Then, inevitably, the hair comes loose and is shed. At this time, the follicle rests for a few months, and then begins production of a new shaft.

Now, with male pattern baldness sufferers, the follicle is under attack from DHT. As a result, the new hair that begins production is of smaller diameter than the previous one. So, when the new hair pokes its head out from the follicle, it is more thin than the previous one. This hair grows, sits, then gets shed, and the next hair is even more thin than the previous... proceeding until the point where the hair is so small, and has no pigment, that it is almost invisible to the naked eye and adds no cosmetic benefit to the overall hairline.

The point I am trying to make is that hairloss takes a lot of time to progress. The flip side of my point is that hairloss treatments, treatments that reverse the thinning and keep the hair in growth mode longer than would have been without the treatment, ALSO take a LONG time to take root and begin showing visible benefits. All the while you are waiting, your hair still continues to cycle. So, don't let the shed cycle discourage you, instead fasten your seat belt, be patient, and give the treatments time to affect an ever-increasing number of hairs as your hair cycling continues. Chances are, given the time frame you have been on the treatments, that the hairs you are shedding were NOT initiated into growth by the treatments (they were already IN growth mode when you started them)... so, by them shedding, it allows the follicle to begin producing a new hair shaft, one that has been "fertilized" with minoxidil from inception.

One other thing to keep in mind is that the hair cycle and sheds do not occur in an even and consistent way over the entire scalp. The scalp is a funny thing. Hair shedding never happens at a statistically EVEN rate throughout the year, it is usually characterized by long periods of below average shed rates, and then you will have an episode of above average shedding. With time, the shedding stops, and you go back into a low shed phase once again. So, don't let sheds bother you. They can be scary, but you have to ride them out.

Keep in mind that sheds don't hurt the hairline in the long term... what REALLY matters is how thick the hairs will be that grow in to replace them.[/code]
 

Radio

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yeah, that is exactly what I said :)
 

Radio

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yeah, that is exactly what I said, I just used much less information and of a lower quality with much less detail and accuracy, missing out many of your major points, and OK I got a few a basics wrong, but essentially we gave the same answer.

:freaked:
 

The Gardener

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Not only that, but you forgot to add in that all important "[/code]" that I used to finish off my entry. Nice touch, eh? :lol:
 

KipWinger

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hi, i am in the same boat. i am on propecia one year, and till mounth 6 my hair had improved very much... since that my hair become to shed again and now is like when i started my treatment, it still shedding like 6 mounths of shedding. i like the words of The Gardener, but my question is... if when we started the treatment we saw the hair improving in so small time why now when the medication is more time in our organism the hair is like a sh*t again? in the beggining we have hair cycles also but the hair had improved!
 

SE-freak

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The Gardener said:
instead fasten your seat belt, be patient, and give the treatments time to affect an ever-increasing number of hairs as your hair cycling continues. Chances are, given the time frame you have been on the treatments, that the hairs you are shedding were NOT initiated into growth by the treatments (they were already IN growth mode when you started them)... so, by them shedding, it allows the follicle to begin producing a new hair shaft, one that has been "fertilized" with minoxidil from inception.

This is an extremely important point.

People are under the impression that there is a switch turned on when they pop the first pill or apply the first topical. As time passes while on treatment the number of hairs benefiting from the change in environment increases. This process takes muuuuch more than the frequently mentioned 3-4 months for first results or even the 6 months-1year for propecia. The anagen phase of a healthy follicle lasts many years. Follicles that have received some dht punishment can still retain this long anagen phase and consequently take considerably long to improve their quality and cosmetic impact.
 

PJ Worshipper

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Thanks everyone for the help, especially the gardener. I won't give up. I've been in it this long and I have nothing to lose. It just gets depressing sometimes when u feel so happy about your hair and then it turns to sh*t and your back to being disgusted. Anyway, thanks again!
 

KipWinger

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pll only one more question.... i have my scalp always oily. my face is ok but my forehead is oily too. my scalp is so oil that i washmy hair in the morning and then in the night is oil again! i think that is not good for hair..how can i control that????
 

The Gardener

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KW, I don't have any studies to cite, but I personally think that excessive oil is NOT a good thing. It is a good habitat for naturally-occurring fungus, which is BAD for male pattern baldness.

For the scalp, Ketoanalconahole, the active ingredient in Nizoral, has been shown to reduce sebum output. Get on the Nizoral if you haven't already, and if you have and your scalp is STILL excessively greasy, I suggest a bump up to 2% Nizoral, which would require a purchase from an offshore pharma. As for your face, copper peptides, I have heard in at least one study, reduces sebum production, a little bit. Using copper peptides not only on your face, but perhaps also in your hair (folligen, tricomin, etc.) might be another potential regimen addition worth considering.[/code]
 

The Gardener

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PJ Worshipper said:
Thanks everyone for the help, especially the gardener. I won't give up. I've been in it this long and I have nothing to lose. It just gets depressing sometimes when u feel so happy about your hair and then it turns to $#iT and your back to being disgusted. Anyway, thanks again!

PJW, just keep this one trueism in mind.

No matter HOW your hair might respond to hairloss treatments, it will ALWAYS be in better shape with them than it would have been without them. So, if you are already spending the time and trouble to dabble in them, be religious about them and be CONSISTENT to reap the most benefit you can! If you use minoxidil, make a POINT of always getting in that hard to fit it morning app every day... don't miss a finasteride dose, and spray copper peps whenever it is feasibly possible! Take some initiative! These are the best weapons we have, use them properly to take advantage of any chance you have with the best weaponry that we now have against hairloss.
 
G

Guest

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Hello my hairloss comrades.

I too have experienced somthing similar to what you are discribing. Seems pretty normal. Just can't wait till it ends. Its funny isn't it? You can be all happy with your hair for several months, then all of a sudden for a month or two or 3 it goes to sh*t... and you have bad *** hair days like everyday for a while. Then all of a sudden you start to bounce back. It's a roller coaster I tell ya.

-badasshairday
 

KipWinger

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hi The Gardener, thancks for the reply. i am alreaddy using nizoral 2%, but only 2 times a week, becouse i dont like the way it leaves my hair... always very dificult to run my finger on it. very very dry. but i can say that after using nizoral my hair is excecive dry but than some hour latter my hair and scalp is oil again like other shampoo... is like my system produce oil with nizoral or another shampoo that i use in the same way... what you sugest? maybe use more times in a week nizoral? is finasteride responsible for excessive sebum produce? finasteride change your hornomes and it can make you produce more oil. i have read in this foruns ppl getting acne becouse finasteride... acne happens becouse of oil skin i think. now sometimes i have some acne...before finasteride it was very rare. thanks guys!
 
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