Anybody here with restless legs or muscle twitching taking finasteride?

[Fanjeera]

By inhibiting 5ar2, we lower allopregnanolone production in the brain, which ultimately leads to Parkinson's disease. Restless legs syndrome is connected to Parkinson, because the same drugs cure them, and probably is the youth version of the disease. Restless legs' is often caused by muscle twitching. Basically they're similar diseases with involuntary movement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restless_legs_syndrome

So, come clean! Who is experiencing muscle twitching more than normal?

 

[Quadzilla99]

No. Been on finasteride 10+ years

 

[Timi]

.

 

[Bowser]

YES YES YES! i had this and it got very irritating! wouldnt affect me at work or when busy, only when i was chilling in the evenings. horrible, had to constantly tense my arms and legs to get some relief. wrote a post on here asking others but not very common.

it started with me when i changed brand of finasteride, in the end i had to change back to my initial generic and thankfully it has kinda hidden itself.

 

[Fanjeera]

So you're still taking finasteride and you no longer have it?

 

[Quantum Cat]

are you on a crusade to completely discredit Finasteride? next you'll claim it gives you cancer...

 

[Fanjeera]

are you on a crusade to completely discredit Finasteride? next you'll claim it gives you cancer...

Nope. I'm just describing the few symptoms (the other one is semen and you can read about it in another thread) I got while taking it. It's not the end of life, but it annoys me a lot.

 

[Lewis Hamilton]

Shaking legs

Yes it can give some people who take it shaking legs. It doesnt go away. I'd come off the drug.

And re the óther post about ''you'll be saying it gives you cancer next'', well yes, the chances of high grade cancer are increased on Propecia or Avodart and the types of cancers are more aggressive than regular ones so the chances of survival are reduced. Nice hair on a corpse is a good look for the funeral though...

 

[Fanjeera]

Yes it can give some people who take it shaking legs. It doesnt go away. I'd come off the drug.

And re the óther post about ''you'll be saying it gives you cancer next'', well yes, the chances of high grade cancer are increased on Propecia or Avodart and the types of cancers are more aggressive than regular ones so the chances of survival are reduced. Nice hair on a corpse is a good look for the funeral though...

These kind of facts need proof or at least confirm that you're having them yourself. Do your muscles twitch due to finasteride? Or did you just read what I wrote and repost it?

 

[Wuffer]

By inhibiting 5ar2, we lower allopregnanolone production in the brain

This is not yet established fact. The few studies I've seen were very small and inconclusive. One that I can remember off the top of my head involved a small group of men in their 60's. The other issue is that these studies measured serum blood levels, NOT brain blood levels. I'm not sure if finasteride passes the BBB, but I do know that 5AR Type 2 is NOT found in the human bran; only type 1, which finasteride does not inhibit.

which ultimately leads to Parkinson's disease.

What proof do you have of this? Admittedly I just took a cursory perusal, but I couldn't find any supportive evidence of this other than some rat models. And even then, I found contradictory studies, like this one that suggests higher allo levels inhibit learning and memory, and may accelerate cognitive impairment:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23157375

Even if you can prove that decreased allo levels lead to Parkinson's, how do we know how much and what the effect will be? Do they have to be decreased 95% before we are at risk for Parkinson's? How much does finasteride actually inhibit brain allo levels? It might lower levels, but by what amount? 5%? Maybe a small decrease in allo levels actually prevents certain diseases, but a significant decrease makes things worse. Nobody knows these things right now.

These are all very important facts to establish before jumping to conclusions like you are already doing.

Your logic is basically: "finasteride might reduce allo, which can only be a bad thing. I notice I have restless legs. Hey, that shaking resembles Parkinson's. Parkinsons is a brain disorder. Allo exists in the brain and we know finasteride inhibits it. That means finasteride causes Parkinson's!" This is how doctors thought a hundred years ago.

Restless legs syndrome is connected to Parkinson, because the same drugs cure them, and probably is the youth version of the disease.

Sorry but these are some very poor statements. You're saying that if one drug can treat two conditions, those two conditions are automatically connected? It doesn't work that way. Wikipedia shows that RLS may be associated with Parkinson's. It is also associated with ADHD, sleep apnea and diabetes. By your logic, people with sleep apnea are experiencing a "youth version" or Parkinson's? All these kids with ADHD are actually in early stages of Parkinson's? Give me a break.

Restless legs' is often caused by muscle twitching. Basically they're similar diseases with involuntary movement.

No, you are way off. That's like saying indigestion and a heart attack are similar conditions because they both cause chest pain. RLS is not involuntary in the way that twitches are involuntary. When you experience a muscle twitch (fasciculation), your muscles are twitching on their own. It happens to everyone from time to time and they are normal unless excessive. Stress is a particularly common cause of muscle twitches.

RLS is more similar to Tourettes in that there is a conscious urge (an itch, burn, need, whatever) to perform this action in order to relieve the need. Both RLS and Tourettes 'twitches' can be suppressed with discomfort, so they are not involuntary like muscle twitches.

RLS is a condition, and twitches are a symptom. They are completely different from one another, and are caused by completely different systems.

So, come clean! Who is experiencing muscle twitching more than normal?

Again, are you talking about fasciculation or RLS?

- - - Updated - - -

the chances of high grade cancer are increased on Propecia or Avodart

Wrong (at least for Propecia):

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2844801/

A more recent review of that original study (including microscopic examinations of prostate tissues) revealed that finasteride actually had a 30% risk in all tumors, and a 27% decrease in high grade tumors. The old study failed to account for some biases and issues during examination, all of which are described in this study.

 

[LawOfThelema]

Using dutasteride, once every 3rd day, then 2 weeks ago transitioned to once a week. msucle spasm around the eyes, occasionally on some muscles in the legs. but ive had this intermittently years ago even. id suspect in my case it would be due to something else like low vitamin D status due to the low sunlight i get and my vegetarian diet. i tried supping with 4000 IU vit D to see if this would subside.

 

[Fanjeera]

This is not yet established fact. The few studies I've seen were very small and inconclusive. One that I can remember off the top of my head involved a small group of men in their 60's. The other issue is that these studies measured serum blood levels, NOT brain blood levels. I'm not sure if finasteride passes the BBB, but I do know that 5AR Type 2 is NOT found in the human bran; only type 1, which finasteride does not inhibit.

RLS is more similar to Tourettes in that there is a conscious urge (an itch, burn, need, whatever) to perform this action in order to relieve the need. Both RLS and Tourettes 'twitches' can be suppressed with discomfort, so they are not involuntary like muscle twitches.

RLS is a condition, and twitches are a symptom. They are completely different from one another, and are caused by completely different systems.

Finasteride crosses the BBB. That's such a well known fact that I'm not even bothering finding proof.
5ar2 is in many parts of the human brain: http://www.hindawi.com/journals/au/2012/530121/tab3/
Restless legs may be due to muscle twitching in the legs. You start to move your legs, because you don't want them to twitch all the time. That's what I do at least. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restless_legs "RLS sensations could be pain, an aching, an itching or tickling in the muscles, like "an itch you can't scratch" or an unpleasant "tickle that won't stop", or even a "crawling" feeling."

I know there's a chance that it can even have a positive effect, but I think the chances of pathologies are greater, if you disrupt the body's normal balance and course. Of course I might be wrong. But as I developed muscle twitching, I have very big doubts from time to time.
Definitely I also have stress, but I don't believe I have had it 3 years straight. Fortunately, my doctor says it's stress too. And I'm also trying out dosing RDA amounts of Mg, because so many people in the Internet say it will help.

 

[Bowser]

So you're still taking finasteride and you no longer have it?

i started back on my initial brand of finasteride but also went back on a multivitamin i was taking containing zinc. so Im not sure if it was the change of finasteride or the fact that i went back on the hair vitamins i was on before

 

[Fanjeera]

You probably had Mg deficieny then and the multivitamin complex you're taking contains it. I'm definitely trying out Mg. Perhaps it's hypocalcemia though. Or perhaps finasteride caused it somehow.

 

[Fanjeera]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20486040
http://www.lf1.cuni.cz/Data/Files/PragueMedicalReport/pmr_110_2009_03/pmr2009a0025.pdf (a 75% fall in allopregnanolone levels!)

Here's some proof how bad it is for your brain. And for those who still don't believe there's 5ar2 in the brain: http://www.hindawi.com/journals/au/2012/530121/tab3/

And as they're both neurodegenerative diseases, Alzheimer has been linked to low allopregnanolone too: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16997284 ; http://www.physiology.gu.se/medfys/kogvt12/Articles/Wang 2007.pdf (allopregnanolone is also low in old people).
This should be enough to persuade anyone to come off the drug and to ask compensation from Merck.

 

[Wuffer]

http://www.lf1.cuni.cz/Data/Files/PragueMedicalReport/pmr_110_2009_03/pmr2009a0025.pdf (a 75% fall in allopregnanolone levels!)

These are serum blood levels, not brain blood levels. As you probably know, they aren't even close to being the same.

And for those who still don't believe there's 5ar2 in the brain: http://www.hindawi.com/journals/au/2012/530121/tab3/

Like I said in the other thread, this link says this: "not detected in fetal liver, adrenal, testis, ovary, scalp, and brain"

This should be enough to persuade anyone to come off the drug and to ask compensation from Merck.

So you're not only trying to convince everyone to come off the drug, you are suggesting that they sue Merck even if they don't have any symptoms?

 

[Fanjeera]

Allopregnanolone is only made in the brain, so nothing else than brain production has its effect on the serum levels also. Serum levels reflect brain levels. Read the links properly. It says 5ar2 is found in the cerebral cortex and the pituitary. And not only should we be looking at 5ar2 now, but also 5ar3 which is also inhibited by finasteride.