Apple Cider Vinegar... part II

[squeegee]

If you want to disapprove the ACV theory, the simple way to do this, is to buy a bottle of ACV (~5 dollars) drink a couple of tablespoons mixed in water every day for a 2-3 months then post your results.

I don't understand all the arguing over whether this work or not. It's so inexpensive and easy to try. What is it going to hurt? Actually trying it consistently and reporting back, will make a stronger case for or against it then anything else.

Because the burden of proof is with the person making the claims.

If we were to follow your suggested approach we would be constantly trying every quack and crackpot theory posted on the internet instead of focussing on proven methods which have been repeatedly shown to be effective.

The only exception to the burden of proof rule are religionists and homoeopaths who all pretty make it all up as they go along; Christians are similar to homoeopaths but with an older book and a lot more violence.

Why don't you do that Geminex and stop focussing on the Experimental Treatments section??????... God.. f*** I tried every f*****g kind of minoxidil available on the frigging market, Finasteride and Dustaride with dosage that can kill a damn cow on a long term period.. I hate the hassle, the side effects and it just cover up the problems..or create mores.. Saying that balding is just Genetics is just f*****g bullshit because nobody knows the real answer to this.. We are just a bunch of people willing to try new stuff and like to talk about the underlying problems to balding.. Insulin resistance, arteriosclerosis, High blood pressure... are somehow related to hairloss and have all something in common.. Inflammation...A lot of people here are not new to this subject and have a outside the box thinking or a pro active approach to it.. Quit hatin..if you don't like it just frigging don't post.. :smack: They have a lot of threads available for you like b**ch tits, Masturbation, minoxidil flakes, tampons and hairspray...

 

[GeminiX]

If you want to disapprove the ACV theory, the simple way to do this, is to buy a bottle of ACV (~5 dollars) drink a couple of tablespoons mixed in water every day for a 2-3 months then post your results.

I don't understand all the arguing over whether this work or not. It's so inexpensive and easy to try. What is it going to hurt? Actually trying it consistently and reporting back, will make a stronger case for or against it then anything else.

Because the burden of proof is with the person making the claims.

If we were to follow your suggested approach we would be constantly trying every quack and crackpot theory posted on the internet instead of focussing on proven methods which have been repeatedly shown to be effective.

The only exception to the burden of proof rule are religionists and homoeopaths who all pretty make it all up as they go along; Christians are similar to homoeopaths but with an older book and a lot more violence.

Why don't you do that Geminex and stop focussing on the Experimental Treatments section??????... God.. f*ck I tried every f****ing kind of minoxidil available on the frigging market, Finasteride and Dustaride with dosage that can kill a damn cow on a long term period.. I hate the hassle, the side effects and it just cover up the problems..or create mores.. Saying that balding is just Genetics is just f****ing bullshit because nobody knows the real answer to this.. We are just a bunch of people willing to try new stuff and like to talk about the underlying problems to balding.. Insulin resistance, arteriosclerosis, High blood pressure... are somehow related to hairloss and have all something in common.. Inflammation...A lot of people here are not new to this subject and have a outside the box thinking or a pro active approach to it.. Quit hatin..if you don't like it just frigging don't post.. :smack:

Wow Squeegee, you love to read things into people's posts and then go nuts about things which are not even there.

Read back up to what I posted (a direct response to a reasonable question from "fight the power"). You show up and start ranting and trying to deny people even post on your threads and making points which were not even discussed in my response.

Are you so insecure about your faith in this stuff that you're frightened that it can't hold up to scrutiny and now have to resort to just making things up?

 

[squeegee]

Why you are here debating about the proven treatments and my faith???.. We don't care... Do you have anything to add to the tread related to the subject? NO..so you know what to do..

 

[GeminiX]

Because I'm trying to work out why you're so desperate to censor anyone who does not agree with you.

Bottom line, you can rant at people who disagree with you all you like, even carry on trying to insist that anyone who disagrees with you is not allowed to post on your threads, but it's not going to happen.

Everytime someone shows up here and claims they have a new miracle cure to hairloss and it's better than anything else, yet provides no evidence, I'm going to do my best to badger them to provide proof.

If I see a question I feel I can answer reasonably, I'm going to respond.

If you don't like that, just ignore me and anyone else who's opinion you don't like.

 

[squeegee]

Because I'm trying to work out why you're so desperate to censor anyone who does not agree with you.

Bottom line, you can rant at people who disagree with you all you like, even carry on trying to insist that anyone who disagrees with you is not allowed to post on your threads, but it's not going to happen.

Everytime someone shows up here and claims they have a new miracle cure to hairloss and it's better than anything else, yet provides no evidence, I'm going to do my best to badger them to provide proof.

If I see a question I feel I can answer reasonably, I'm going to respond.

If you don't like that, just ignore me and anyone else who's opinion you don't like.

Gem, I just don't want this thread to go whack like the other one... The guy came here with a positive attitude having great results with a simple treatment and yeah maybe overexcited...so what? and all the clowns haters just jumped on him... He even included pictures even if it was early in the treatment.. But where is the guy now? Gone.. Thank you! :gay:

 

[GeminiX]

And that's fine. As far as I can tell from this particular thread (I've only skimmed it), no one has claimed that ACV is a miracle cure yet and I've not commented on it.

My first post here was purely to respond to a question on the burden of proof, you're the one who pounced on me and went all Rita Hayworth

 

[Brains Expel Hair]

If the burden of proof you require is someone posting pictures of an single "case study" that most likely wasn't well controlled at all then you are an amazingly daft fool. The burden of anything and everything lies with the individual user to seek out various scientific evidence or at least some scientific mention of any such treatment's effects. This forum doesn't encompass the entire balding world, it doesn't show everything that can work or won't work, it's simply a bunch of random people mentioning things that they think may have something to do with their hair loss/growth. Considering even published medical studies are often riddled with holes it is up to each person to decide if the price of a treatment if worth it in comparison to the various sources of reported efficacy/inefficacy, considering general population studies show only a probability of what may occur in your individual case even they can't tell you exactly what to expect.

Want to try ACV for hair loss? Well are there any negative side effects? Minimal. Is it's cost high? dirt cheap. Is it tough to acquire? available at every grocery store.

Want to try urine therapy? Are there any negative side effects? smells like pee. Is it's cost high? costs you your girlfriend. Is it tough to acquire? built in source.

 

[GeminiX]

lol why cant we all just get a-bong!

"Brains Expel Hair" can't, he has to resort to insults when he makes his random posts; he seems to think it actually makes his point stronger

 

[squeegee]

Acetic acid, CH3COOH, is thought to be the primary compound responsible for weight loss in an apple cider vinegar diet. Two studies done in Japan by the Central Research Institute of the Mizkan Group state that acetic acid in vinegar may have the ability to reduce fatty acid deposits in rats and humans at a genetic level. Mizkan researchers noted an activity increase in the PPAR-alpha after vinegar was ingested. The PPAR-alpha is an organelle, functioning like a small organ inside the body's cells, eliminating toxins and releasing enzymes that oxidize fatty acids and stimulate the burning of calories.

Study on Lecithin for Heart-Health

Researchers from the Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis, MO, reported in the August, 2009 issue of Cell that they may have found a connection between lecithin and the protein PPAR-alpha. PPAR-alpha is a protein in the liver that works to metabolize lipids and glucose. When PPAR-alpha is not functioning properly and bad cholesterol and triglyceride levels rise, doctors prescribe drugs called fibrates to provoke PPAR-alpha to work properly. However, the study found that lecithin may actually be able to replace fibrates to provoke PPAR-alpha into working without the side-effects of prescription drugs.

The study used specially created mice that were unable to create fatty acid synthase in the liver. Fatty acid synthase converts the sugars we eat into fatty acids which play a part in energy metabolism. The researchers were surprised to find that the mice without fatty acid synthase were exactly like those that couldn’t produce PPAR-alpha. When given fibrates, the mice returned to normal, leaving researchers to believe that fatty acid synthase was connected to activating PPAR-alpha. From this research they found that phosphatidylcholine, a compound of lecithin, works to bind with PPAR-alpha to activate it so the body can effectively metabolize lipids and glucose. The effective metabolizing of lipids and glucose helps reduce the amount of fats in the blood which can lead to heart disease and diabetes.

PPARalpha as a mediator of androgen effects on T cell autoimmunity. We are interested in how male sex hormones act to limit the activity of auto-aggressive T cells in EAE. We have found that androgens suppress the production of pro-inflammatory cytokines by these cells. We have also made the discovery that the nuclear receptor peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor alpha (PPARalpha) is expressed at higher levels in male as compared to female T helper cells and that the expression of this molecule is sensitive to the levels of androgens. Our studies also indicate that the activity of PPARalpha controls the development of T helper 1 inflammation selectively in male mice during EAE. Our current research effort is directed towards understanding the mechanism of how this molecule and other PPAR molecules may limit the development of autoimmunity.

Br J Dermatol. 2003 Aug;149(2):229-36. Related Articles, Links


Peroxisome proliferator-activated receptors in cutaneous biology.

Kuenzli S, Saurat JH.

Department of Dermatology, University Hospital, Geneva, Switzerland.

Peroxisome proliferator-activated receptors (PPARs) are ligand-activated transcription factors that regulate the expression of target genes involved in many cellular functions including cell proliferation, differentiation and immune/inflammation response. The PPAR subfamily consists of three isotypes: PPAR alpha, PPAR beta/delta and PPAR gamma, which have all been identified in keratinocytes. PPAR beta/delta is the predominant subtype in human keratinocytes, whereas PPAR alpha and PPAR gamma are expressed at much lower levels and increase significantly upon keratinocyte differentiation. PPAR beta/delta is not linked to differentiation, but is significantly upregulated upon various conditions that result in keratinocyte proliferation, and during skin wound healing. In vitro and in vivo evidence suggests that PPARs appear to play an important role in skin barrier permeability, inhibiting epidermal cell growth, promoting epidermal terminal differentiation and regulating skin inflammatory response by diverse mechanisms. These proprieties are pointing in the direction of PPARs being key regulators of skin conditions characterized by hyperproliferation, inflammatory infiltrates and aberrant differentiation such as psoriasis, but may also have clinical implications in inflammatory skin disease (e.g. atopic dermatitis), proliferative skin disease, wound healing, acne and protease inhibitor associated lipodystrophia.
Read more at http://www.healthboards.com/boards/show ... ck=kcplink

Peroxisome proliferator-activated receptors in inflammation control
P Delerive, JC Fruchart, and B Staels


Peroxisome proliferator-activated receptors (PPARs) are ligand-activated transcription factors belonging to the nuclear receptor superfamily. PPARalpha is highly expressed in liver, skeletal muscle, kidney, heart and the vascular wall. PPARgamma is predominantly detected in adipose tissue, intestine and macrophages. PPARs are activated by fatty-acid derivatives and pharmacological agents such as fibrates and glitazones which are specific for PPARalpha and PPARgamma respectively. PPARs regulate lipid and lipoprotein metabolism, glucose homeostasis, cell proliferation and differentiation, and apoptosis. PPARalpha controls intra- and extracellular lipid metabolisms whereas PPARgamma triggers adipocyte differentiation and promotes lipid storage. In addition, PPARs also modulate the inflammatory response. PPAR activators have been shown to exert anti-inflammatory activities in various cell types by inhibiting the expression of proinflammatory genes such as cytokines, metalloproteases and acute-phase proteins. PPARs negatively regulate the transcription of inflammatory response genes by antagonizing the AP-1, nuclear factor-kappaB (NF-kappaB), signal transducer and activator of transcription and nuclear factor of activated T-cells signalling pathways and by stimulating the catabolism of proinflammatory eicosanoids. These recent findings indicate a modulatory role for PPARs in inflammation with potential therapeutical applications in chronic inflammatory diseases.

 

[Obsidian]

I have started using it (started yesterday) mainly to clear up inflammation/SD. How long did it take some to see results.

 

[Hoppi]

Maybe ACV works because it stimulates bile flow and dissolves sludge and gallstones, which allows the liver to detox.

It also cleanses the digestive tract.

 

[Hoppi]

Maybe I'm right? hehe

EDIT -- In FACT, I am fairly confident that the primary reason ACV can prove effective is NOT it's acidity (which stimulates bile), NOT it's anti-fungal, prebiotic or stomach-aiding properties, but it's content of MALIC ACID which can dissolve non-calcified gallstones and biliary sludge. I'd love to hear opinions on that one!

 

[Hoppi]

Please, please, write a paper. Submit it to whatever journal you want (but nothing less that "Endocrine reviews"). And post the answers from the reviewers.

What because I think the liver affects hormone levels and bile flow affects the liver? Welcome to Biology 101! lol ^^

 

[acvfan]

Thanks, Squeegee! Since the photos are uploaded, I'v removed the Mega Upload link.

 

[MrBastard]

I am considering this one now Whould this pill be beneficial?
http://www.newnordic.com/template/t04.php?menuId=43

Per daily intake of 3 tablets:
Apple cider vinegar powder, 20% equals 1800mg
Globe artichoke extract 13.5:1 equal to 2835 mg dry herb
Dandelion extract 5:1 equal to 1260mg dry herb


have not seen acvfan's pics... Think it seems fishy that he can upload on a slow crappy uploade site and not do it in 5 sec when he posts here...

 

[squeegee]

I am considering this one now Whould this pill be beneficial?
http://www.newnordic.com/template/t04.php?menuId=43

Per daily intake of 3 tablets:
Apple cider vinegar powder, 20% equals 1800mg
Globe artichoke extract 13.5:1 equal to 2835 mg dry herb
Dandelion extract 5:1 equal to 1260mg dry herb


have not seen acvfan's pics... Think it seems fishy that he can upload on a slow crappy uploade site and not do it in 5 sec when he posts here...

NO! you need the liquid with the mothers in it with the active enzymes. period.

 

[squeegee]

the mothers?

Yep! you need the organic apple cider vinegar with the mother in it. That is the difference maker. It is pack of enzymes that makes everything work and bioavailable. The caplet or tablet form is useless.

 

[squeegee]

I'm not saying anyting regarding whether or whether not that acv ingested helps with hair loss but...

If hypothetically it did. Could it not be for the same reason that drinking lemon juice in the morning releaves acid and antioxidate as a result of alkalinasion.

I was reading a study the other day saying that different digestive enzymes are produced depending on whether you eat protein or carbohydrates and things like eating meat and bread causes acid and provides yeast and throw a little bit of sugar in too and you have a kind of brewery going on it the gut causing all sorts of potential problems. It makes sense seen as we never had processed food at the begining of our biological evolution and we would have probably eaten fats and proteins together and on another day forriged for nuts or berrys etc :dunno:

Who knows man! we are such a complex machine!

 

[acvfan]

I have not changed anything since the last postings other than applying the acv directly to my scalp. I still drink the mixture of 2- 4 tablespoons with water several times a day. I am still adhering to a low-to-no gluten diet. I was never diagnosed with anything that would specifically be related to anything like this. On the last post/thread some contributers mentioned putting it on the skin. I did the research and decided it wasn't a joke. Between 2 and 4 times a day (after my shower in the morning, when I get home from work, before bed, sometimes I squeeze in another time) I soak a cotton ball and dab it on lightly-- not enough so it runs. It really tingles when applied, and the smell does go away within a few minutes. I bought the Braggs health book, and it mentions crushing a capsule of royal jelly and mixing it with a tablespoon of the acv. I might be trying that soon, but I'm so happy and a little bit shocked- I knew it was working but I was even blown away by the photos-I might not mess with a good thing. I hope Squeegee can upload the photos to this post soon as I have no idea how. I'm going to post some more photos probably in late February or early March.

 

[squeegee]

I have not changed anything since the last postings other than applying the acv directly to my scalp. I still drink the mixture of 2- 4 tablespoons with water several times a day. I am still adhering to a low-to-no gluten diet. I was never diagnosed with anything that would specifically be related to anything like this. On the last post/thread some contributers mentioned putting it on the skin. I did the research and decided it wasn't a joke. Between 2 and 4 times a day (after my shower in the morning, when I get home from work, before bed, sometimes I squeeze in another time) I soak a cotton ball and dab it on lightly-- not enough so it runs. It really tingles when applied, and the smell does go away within a few minutes. I bought the Braggs health book, and it mentions crushing a capsule of royal jelly and mixing it with a tablespoon of the acv. I might be trying that soon, but I'm so happy and a little bit shocked- I knew it was working but I was even blown away by the photos-I might not mess with a good thing. I hope Squeegee can upload the photos to this post soon as I have no idea how. I'm going to post some more photos probably in late February or early March.

No worries bud! I will help you out! Keep on the good work ACVFAN.. good to have you back on the board and posting!