Apply retin-A before or after minoxidil

[ThinBrent]

I've been using minoxidil for a long time. Now I have a bottle of retin-A (0.05%, I think) on its way from Dr. Lee (minoxidil.com). I asked Dr. Lee if it matters whether I apply the retin-A after applying the minoxidil, or before, and he said that it does not.

Just wondering if anyone here feels differently. Also, should I wait for one to dry before applying the other? I'd think that I shouldn't, since part of the retin-A's purpose is to help the minoxidil absorb better, right? So shouldn't they go on together to get the full effect?

Thanks.

 

[JWM]

You can apply it ANY time. 5 minutes apart or 5 hours. Doesn't matter.

 

[ThinBrent]

But will it help minoxidil absorb into the scalp better if there's no minoxidil on the scalp when you apply it?

Is retin-A just a treatment for your scalp that helps it absorb minoxidil better in general, regardless of when you apply it in relation to the minoxidil?

I guess that since I first heard of retin-A when I saw it as an additive in minoxidil products on Dr. Lee's site, I thought it was something that just worked within the minoxidil solution to help it penetrate the skin.

 

[bathtbgin]

But will it help minoxidil absorb into the scalp better if there's no minoxidil on the scalp when you apply it?

Is retin-A just a treatment for your scalp that helps it absorb minoxidil better in general, regardless of when you apply it in relation to the minoxidil?

I guess that since I first heard of retin-A when I saw it as an additive in minoxidil products on Dr. Lee's site, I thought it was something that just worked within the minoxidil solution to help it penetrate the skin.

Retin-A is a prescription medication typically used for the treatment of acne, although it can also reduce the appearance of wrinkles after long term use (6 months or more). Retin-A work by speeding up cell turnover rates, rapidly exfoliating the skin and decreasing the buildup of dead cells within the follicle. It has not been approved for use in the treatment of hair loss. All reports about the effectiveness of retin-a as a treatment for hair loss are anecdotal.

Having retin-a on hand is certainly not a bad thing especially if you are starting to get acne from taking propecia. If it doesnt help you scalp, it will at the very least make your skin look better.

 

[ThinBrent]

Yeah, but I guess I'm asking this question in the theoretical context that it is a given that (1) it DOES increase the effectiveness of minoxidil and (2) it is being used for this purpose. I realize that (1) may be false, but in this discussion, lets just assume it's true.

I know there are people on here who have said they've had good experiences with retin-A. I'm just wondering what they think the best way is to apply it with minoxidil.

 

[JWM]

Retin-a is NOT a penetration enhancer like DMSO or Emu oil. It increases minoxidil's effectiveness through different mechanisms including growth properties of its own. The only reason people use it together in one solution is for convenience.

It does NOT matter WHEN you apply the two drugs.

 

[ThinBrent]

I'm not saying that I disagree with you, but it says here (http://minoxidil.com/faq2.htm#RETINOIC%20ACID) that it does allow for better penetration of minoxidil. I can't keep track of everything I've read, but I think that's probably where I got this impression from.

 

[Bryan]

But will it help minoxidil absorb into the scalp better if there's no minoxidil on the scalp when you apply it?

Not really sure about THAT, but in general, the two drugs don't have to be used at the same time. The Retin-A will help the absorption of the minoxidil even if you use one in the morning and the other at night.

Is retin-A just a treatment for your scalp that helps it absorb minoxidil better in general, regardless of when you apply it in relation to the minoxidil?

Yes. It does also seem to have some growth-stimulating properties of its own.

I guess that since I first heard of retin-A when I saw it as an additive in minoxidil products on Dr. Lee's site, I thought it was something that just worked within the minoxidil solution to help it penetrate the skin.

Like JWM said, they don't have to be used at the same time. In fact, it's probably a good idea NOT to mix them together in the same bottle, since there have been some serious claims by some doctors that the two drugs aren't stable when mixed together in the same solution.

BTW, be sure and notice the second line of my signature file!

.

 

[Bryan]

Retin-A is a prescription medication typically used for the treatment of acne... All reports about the effectiveness of retin-a as a treatment for hair loss are anecdotal.

That's not true. Apparently you haven't read the old Bazzanno study of Retin-A for male pattern baldness, which was published in a medical journal. It showed hairgrowth-promoting effects of Retin-A both when used alone, AND when mixed with minoxidil.

And here's another more recent study from a medical journal:

Am J Clin Dermatol. 2007;8(5):285-90.
"Efficacy of 5% minoxidil versus combined 5% minoxidil and 0.01% tretinoin for male pattern hair loss: a randomized, double-blind, comparative clinical trial." Shin HS, Won CH, Lee SH, Kwon OS, Kim KH, Eun HC.
Department of Dermatology, Seoul National University College of Medicine, and Seoul National University Boramae Hospital, Seoul, Korea.

BACKGROUND: 5% topical minoxidil solution has been widely used to stimulate new hair growth and help stop hair loss in men with androgenetic alopecia (Androgenetic Alopecia). However, it is not convenient for patients to continue applying the solution twice daily on a regular basis. Tretinoin is known to increase the percutaneous absorption of minoxidil and, therefore, to enhance the response of Androgenetic Alopecia to minoxidil. For this reason, it was assumed that tretinoin would be helpful in alleviating the inconvenience associated with the recommended twice-daily application of minoxidil. OBJECTIVE: To compare the efficacy and safety of therapy using a combined solution of 5% minoxidil and 0.01% tretinoin once daily with those of the conventional 5% topical minoxidil therapy applied twice daily in the treatment of Androgenetic Alopecia. METHODS: A total of 31 male patients (aged 28-45 years, mean 39.7+/-4.5) with Androgenetic Alopecia (Hamilton-Norwood classification type III-V) were randomly assigned into two groups, one in which 5% minoxidil was applied to the scalp twice daily and the other in which the combined agent was applied once daily at night together with a vehicle placebo in the morning. The efficacy parameters were: (i) changes in total hair count, non-vellus hair count, anagen hair ratio, linear hair growth rate, and mean hair diameter assessed by macrophotographic image analysis; and (ii) the patient's and investigator's subjective assessments. RESULTS: After therapy, increases in the macrophotographic variables of total hair count and non-vellus hair count were shown in both treatment groups. There were no statistically significant differences between the two treatment groups with respect to changes in macrophotographic variables or scores on subjective global assessments by patients and the investigator. The incidence of adverse effects such as pruritus or local irritation was similar in the 5% minoxidil group (4 of 14 subjects) and the combined agent group (5 of 15 subjects). CONCLUSION: The efficacy and safety of combined 5% minoxidil and 0.01% tretinoin once-daily therapy appear to be equivalent to those of conventional 5% minoxidil twice-daily therapy for the treatment of Androgenetic Alopecia.

 

[Bryan]

Yeah, but I guess I'm asking this question in the theoretical context that it is a given that (1) it DOES increase the effectiveness of minoxidil and (2) it is being used for this purpose. I realize that (1) may be false, but in this discussion, lets just assume it's true.

Both (1) and (2) are correct.

I know there are people on here who have said they've had good experiences with retin-A. I'm just wondering what they think the best way is to apply it with minoxidil.

I would suggest that you apply them separately, if possible.

 

[ThinBrent]

Thanks for the info, Bryan.

I would suggest that you apply them separately, if possible.

I've been applying the retin-A first, then the minoxidil after 1 or 2 minutes. Should I wait longer? I wait awhile (more than 5 minutes) to apply spironolactone after that, because I read that you should wait until the minoxidil has dried a little. Should I do a similar wait after putting on the retin-A?

 

[Bryan]

I've been applying the retin-A first, then the minoxidil after 1 or 2 minutes. Should I wait longer?

Probably doesn't make any difference.

I wait awhile (more than 5 minutes) to apply spironolactone after that, because I read that you should wait until the minoxidil has dried a little. Should I do a similar wait after putting on the retin-A?

Again, it probably doesn't make much difference. A lot of guys on hairloss sites seem to worry a lot about the order and timing of the various things they apply to their scalps, but probably the only real issue to worry about is the possible odor problem that you can get when mixing minoxidil with spironolactone.

 

[zxAddict]

My understanding is that retin-A modifies the scalp in many subtle ways and the effect is quite prolonged after periodic use (days/weeks?) So it wouldn't really matter the order they are applied in. Personally I just use Lee's minoxidil + AA. Saw some decent results.

 

[otis]

As far as useing Retin A witch is (tretinoin) it is not made any more in the liquid form anymore,nor is there any generic being made any more it has been discontinued in the USA and other countrys.Ther was not enough sales for it in the liquid.
Where ever you are geting this so called liquid i am sure it is not (tretinoin)retin a.
the doctor is probaly useing some other form of retinol acid and calling it retin a.
I used Retin a for so many years with rogain and was doing well with it until it was not manufactured any more in the liquid. I tried the retin a micro it is not as good in the gel form though.
You might want to try the Retin A Gel you can take a rogain foam cap put a pea size drop of retin a gell in it take rogaine (liquid) and add it to that and mix it well and you can apply it to your scalp ,good only at nite only because it is to mess for the day.

 

[beaner]

Where ever you are geting this so called liquid i am sure it is not (tretinoin)retin a.
the doctor is probaly useing some other form of retinol acid and calling it retin a.

Dr Lee@ minoxidil.com sells retin-A in liquid form in both .025% and .05% formulations. I can vouch for it's authenticity as can quite a number of others on this forum that have used it. .

 

[otis]

If you do not beleive me call up the company yourself,the company that makes Retin a is
OrthoNeutrogena .The liquid has not been made for years that is a fact,and there is mo generic made any more either ask your pharmacy.

 

[beaner]

If you do not beleive me call up the company yourself,the company that makes Retin a is
OrthoNeutrogena .The liquid has not been made for years that is a fact,and there is mo generic made any more either ask your pharmacy.

Dude, just because the original company doesn't make liquid retin-A doesn't mean a private pharmacist cannot have this compounded for them. I'm sure it isn't rocket science. You are wrong Otis. Dr Lee sells real retinoic acid in a base of alcohol and ppg, as well as a mixture of retin-A with minoxidil. There is information regarding Dr Lee and his products all over this forum so why don't you do a bit of research before spewing your bullcrap ? You very obviously haven't a clue.

 

[JWM]

I agree with Beaner. If you don't think Dr. Lee's retin-a is the real deal, squirt a few milliliters on your scalp and tell me how it feels :shock:

 

[otis]

You had better prove it to me and to yourself
DONT BE FOOLED
All the best to you guys take care
THE END

 

[richiekie]

I've had success applying retin a, waiting 15 minutes, then applying minoxidil, letting that dry for a bit, followed by topical spironolactone. Later in the evening, I then massage my scalp with emu oil. It is better to apply retin a at night since it is sensitive to light.