Benefits Of The Upcoming Stem Cell Therapies On Transplants

[hilbert]

I'm talking about Histogen and Replicel in particular.
We know why/how they could help native follicles to replenish their storage of stem cells and recover from the damages of DHT.
But what about transplanted follicles?
Some of them lose caliber with time; among those, few do so due to DHT (i.e. they were DHT sensitive in the donor area), but most do so because stem cell exhaustion (due to the original damage during extraction, handling and insertion... a sort of premature aging).

My question is: are these new therapies going to bring some benefit to those follicles, as well?
From what I understand from the theory behind, the answer could be 'yes', but I'm not an expert at all, so I'd like to hear from you.

 

[Follisket]

Could be but that might not mean much when the hair transplant has potentially compromised the treatment's effect on the nearby follicles due to scarring. You could still be losing more than gaining.

 

[hilbert]

Could be but that might not mean much when the hair transplant has potentially compromised the treatment's effect on the nearby follicles due to scarring. You could still be losing more than gaining.

this is a debated point, indeed.
a) why scarring should compromise the treatment's effect? e.g. scars could prevent the injected "liquid" to spread around? (scarring is not an issue when transplanting again in the same area, unless is really bad scarring 1990's style)
b) and why even losing more than gaining??

my feeling is that this recipient area scarring thing is a bit inflated... but if it's real, then I'll have to wait for Tsuji's primordia to thicken up a bit my transplanted area. I hope primordia will grow in recipient areas, just like transplanted follicles.

Anyway, my question was more related to the mechanism of action of Histogen and Replicel, and on whether it can work on transplanted follicles (if scarring allows, of course).

 

[lemoncloak]

Replicel yes, if it works as advertised. Histogen I have no idea and frankly probably neither do they.
Edit: actually if the dp was heavily damaged it might not work still. It depends on the hair

 

[Captain Rex]

Histogen I have no idea and frankly probably neither do they.

 

[hilbert]

Replicel yes, if it works as advertised. Histogen I have no idea and frankly probably neither do they.
Edit: actually if the dp was heavily damaged it might not work still. It depends on the hair

well, if a transplanted follicle grows for years, and only then starts losing caliber a bit, I assume the DP is not damaged.
When the DP or the bulge are damaged, the follicle goes through an anagen cycle, and then it stops forever, all of a sudden (I've seen also this in my own case).

 

[lemoncloak]

well, if a transplanted follicle grows for years, and only then starts losing caliber a bit, I assume the DP is not damaged.
When the DP or the bulge are damaged, the follicle goes through an anagen cycle, and then it stops forever, all of a sudden (I've seen also this in my own case).

Are you sure this isn't just aggressive baldness? Was it def donor hair? If yes then replicel can regenerate it if it works and if the hair hasn't gone full vellus for a long time (I think it's about 2 years but it varies)

 

[hilbert]

Are you sure this isn't just aggressive baldness? Was it def donor hair? If yes then replicel can regenerate it if it works and if the hair hasn't gone full vellus for a long time (I think it's about 2 years but it varies)

no, it's not. i've been discussing a lot with dr. Feriduni and others about this. premature "aging" of some transplanted follicles is due to stem cell depletion.
and let me add this question then: are those therapies going to help the aging follicles, which we know might lose secondary pilii and up to 30% of the caliber of primary pilii?

 

[lemoncloak]

no, it's not. i've been discussing a lot with dr. Feriduni and others about this. premature "aging" of some transplanted follicles is due to stem cell depletion.
and let me add this question then: are those therapies going to help the aging follicles, which we know might lose secondary pilii and up to 30% of the caliber of primary pilii?

Look as you probably know actual aging is caused by dna damage over time. Non androgenetic alopecia balding by aging shouldn't happen unless you're pretty much white. This loss after transplants looks more like trauma from surgery (It should happen to a few badly grafted hairs, I'm sure it happens to the best surgeons)
The hairs are only as old (or resistant) as their stem cells. Now replicel is using dermal sheath cup cells and I haven't found this term anywhere else on the internet but they claim they are precursors of dermal papilla cells. It's probably more of a question of can they put those cells in the right place and conditions after successful culture.
To answer, there's still speculation as to whether they can give regrowth (eg gone secondary pili) I think thickening half gone hairs is their best bet
Damn that was a pretty vague answer :/
What baffles me most about replicel is their statement that cells migrate long diatances on their own. I'll have to look it up but google can only help you so much
Edit: just to clarify, if a hair is getting thinner then it has to have problems with its stem cells, most likely the dp. Think about it, the shaft is a by-product of those cells. It doesn't magically thin out. That's why I think it should work

 

[hilbert]

Look as you probably know actual aging is caused by dna damage over time. Non androgenetic alopecia balding by aging shouldn't happen unless you're pretty much white. This loss after transplants looks more like trauma from surgery (It should happen to a few badly grafted hairs, I'm sure it happens to the best surgeons)
The hairs are only as old (or resistant) as their stem cells. Now replicel is using dermal sheath cup cells and I haven't found this term anywhere else on the internet but they claim they are precursors of dermal papilla cells. It's probably more of a question of can they put those cells in the right place and conditions after successful culture.
To answer, there's still speculation as to whether they can give regrowth (eg gone secondary pili) I think thickening half gone hairs is their best bet
Damn that was a pretty vague answer :/
What baffles me most about replicel is their statement that cells migrate long diatances on their own. I'll have to look it up but google can only help you so much
Edit: just to clarify, if a hair is getting thinner then it has to have problems with its stem cells, most likely the dp. Think about it, the shaft is a by-product of those cells. It doesn't magically thin out. That's why I think it should work

Ok, good, it seems we're converging. So you think something like Replicel could help also transplanted follicles that are producing thinner hair over time.

Just to clarify further:
- severe damage during the transplant (extraction, handling and insertion) might result in 0 or max 1 growth cycle; we can see this months or 1-2 years later
- many years later (I'm talking about this), some transplanted follicles can be producing thinner hair. This is the aging-like thinning that concerns me a bit

Note: most of transplanted hair are just fine even after years, depending on the technique. I can see this on my own head. Most modern techniques are the most risky in terms of DP "performance" over years. I have micro-plugs from a hair transplant in '93 that are growing since then, with no loss in caliber. Probably because they were "chubbier" when extracted, the insertion sites were enlarged with a needle (yes, this kind of butchering at that time), and this protected the DP.

So, good to know that Replicel can help, whatever caused the DP stem cell depletion (aging or a transplant).