best growth stimulants other than minoxidil

[JAKE12321]

Oral min seems to work better for lashes than latisse both of which I use daily but I am going to dump the latisse since it's ungoddessly expensive at some point but someone on here, an esteemed reader, was nice enough to give me a little packet of latisse powder so anyone with an easy way to mix it up, I would be most obliged.

also Latisse is bad since it can cause the fat cells around your eyes to shrink which will cause hollowness under the eyes and dark circels

Changes to upper eyelid orbital fat from use of topical bimatoprost, travoprost, and latanoprost - PubMed

Fat atrophy can be considered a mechanism of upper eyelid sulcus deepening in patients using topical prostaglandin analogs.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

also Latisse is bad since it can cause the fat cells around your eyes to shrink which will cause hollowness under the eyes and dark circels

Changes to upper eyelid orbital fat from use of topical bimatoprost, travoprost, and latanoprost - PubMed

Fat atrophy can be considered a mechanism of upper eyelid sulcus deepening in patients using topical prostaglandin analogs.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Yes, I read that article. It's hard to know cause I was only using one drop per eye, still am, lol as I have one bottle left and dry mixture left. I think my tissue is okay and microneedling and retin-A can deal with those issues....

 

[Ticken]

I used kirkland and it made my scalp an absolute f*****g mess, it has propylene glycol in it and that made my scalp an unnatural color of pinkish red and the entirety of my scalp where I applied it had a thick layer of dead skin that was very difficult to get off.

That's what propylene glycol does, and I will never use that sh*t again.

You don't need high penetration that's what I think causes sides, you just need to get to your scalp, not your bloodstream.

I'm simply going to take my non-pg minoxidil and put half of it in a bottle and dilute it with 1-3 part mixture of witch hazel and distilled water.

So I'll technically I have a 1.-whatever percentage mix.

I'm going to start there and see if I get any side effects.

That's super helpful, Thanks Dogo!!

I like this scalp friendly approach of diluting non-pg min with gentle solvents to lower the % concentration. Hope you see some density boost minus any sides. Thinking I'll try this approach as well.

Were you thinking your gentle solvent mixture would be 1 part witch hazel and 3 parts distilled water?

Is there a non-pg min brand you'd recommend as a good base?

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

That's super helpful, Thanks Dogo!!

I like this scalp friendly approach of diluting non-pg min with gentle solvents to lower the % concentration. Hope you see some density boost minus any sides. Thinking I'll try this approach as well.

Were you thinking your gentle solvent mixture would be 1 part witch hazel and 3 parts distilled water?

Is there a non-pg min brand you'd recommend as a good base?

Wow. You really are one of us, Ticken.

 

[polishkickbuttowski]

Yes, I read that article. It's hard to know cause I was only using one drop per eye, still am, lol as I have one bottle left and dry mixture left. I think my tissue is okay and microneedling and retin-A can deal with those issues....

You microneedle on your face too? What's your skin routine?

 

[Capone]

This is and has historically been the opposite of my experience in both using estrogen and regrowing my hair after loss.

I've been applying estrogen twice daily to my scalp for a while now and still have not experienced nor seen any gyno at all, yet I'm already seeing new hair growth starting at my hair line where there previously was none at all. My hairfall has also after an initial shed basically stopped now.

Same but I mix the estrogel with topical dutasteride for the front and just dutasteride on the crown which seems to be improving. Front has taken a hit/shed. I also have zero gyno

 

[WendyParr]

Thank you for this useful information.

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

Got the minoxidil, been running it a couple of days now, I thought it was 2%, turns out it was 5%.

I decided just for experimentation sake to apply the full 5% to my scalp the first two days and then apply the dilute solution thereafter.

One crazy side effect I noticed is the mitigation of a condition I've had for a very long time, a problem of vasoconstriction specifically, meaning

- cold hands

- headaches

- dizziness

All of a sudden even after merely using the topical non-PG formula minoxidil, my hands now have a flush of warmth that they did not previously have (even indoors) and I am no longer fighting monstrous headaches and eye pain and dizziness. Dealing with the cold prior to the effects of minoxidil were hell because of the vasoconstriction, and I've found even now after only two doses that I manage in cold temperatures far better than what coincidence could account for.

Also, after two applications, there has been absolutely ZERO adverse reactions from the non-PG minoxidil solution, so combined with the known vasodilatory inducing effects of minoxidil, combined with the complete and total absence of adverse skin reaction, I'd say my sh*t's legit and I have a winner.

I'm going to be very patient and now use a dilute formula because I'm concerned about the minoxidil building up in my system (topically applied IIRC it has a half life of 22 hours on the skin as opposed to a 2.8 - 4.2 hr half life when administered orally, google: "minoxidil half life topical", if interested)

If I feel like I can tolerate the 2.5-ish percent solution well enough I may just titrate back up to the full strength 5% solution, which because of the 22 hour half life, I am only applying once daily after a shower in the morning.

I'm now quite convinced that PG may have a way of amplifying and exacerbating negative effects of minoxidil in some users, I will have to give it a couple months of use to prove this, but I feel like combined with proper nutrition and the fact that I'm going to be using copper peptides and dermarolling to hopefully offset any possible adverse effects of minoxidil on the skin and collagen of my face, I will have a tradeoff-free recovery of hair growth.

Overall, the thing that has immediately blown me away by this product which I highly suspected, was that it was going to have markedly helpful vasodilation properties that have helped things other than my hair directly (good circulation is a prerequisite for good hair as we know). In this case it most certainly has which is a bonus effect on top of any potential hair growth for myself.

It may well have been that my body had such a PGE2 deficient environment and higher in PGD2 that both the vasoconstrictive symptoms and the hair loss go hand in hand, it would explain why aggressive use of androgen inhibitors did not solve my problem.

Hope you all find this information useful, I'll report back later once I have something to report.

 

[Wffd4182002]

My hair was in terrible condition not long ago and I'm already seeing new growth as a result of using topical estrogen, the last time I regrew hair after a catastrophic loss I was restricting DHT but also using betamethasone which supposedly increases estrogen receptor sensitivity by many times over.

A minimum you'd need to be on it for is 5 to 6 months to see serious results.

I'm also fairly convinced that Derek's hair problems have less to do with inherent genetics and vulnerability to testosterone and more to do with whatever anabolic substances he uses to keep himself huge. He's a big proponent of RU-58841, whereas that sh*t did absolutely nothing for me except give me weird cardiac issues and chest pain. It did not help my hair growth at all.

What topical estrogen do you use?

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

What topical estrogen do you use?

Just some weirdo foreign brand whose name I can't pronounce because it's in a foreign language, got it off the interbutts, it's legit tho.

 

[Ticken]

Got the minoxidil, been running it a couple of days now, I thought it was 2%, turns out it was 5%.

I decided just for experimentation sake to apply the full 5% to my scalp the first two days and then apply the dilute solution thereafter.

One crazy side effect I noticed is the mitigation of a condition I've had for a very long time, a problem of vasoconstriction specifically, meaning

- cold hands

- headaches

- dizziness

All of a sudden even after merely using the topical non-PG formula minoxidil, my hands now have a flush of warmth that they did not previously have (even indoors) and I am no longer fighting monstrous headaches and eye pain and dizziness. Dealing with the cold prior to the effects of minoxidil were hell because of the vasoconstriction, and I've found even now after only two doses that I manage in cold temperatures far better than what coincidence could account for.

Also, after two applications, there has been absolutely ZERO adverse reactions from the non-PG minoxidil solution, so combined with the known vasodilatory inducing effects of minoxidil, combined with the complete and total absence of adverse skin reaction, I'd say my sh*t's legit and I have a winner.

I'm going to be very patient and now use a dilute formula because I'm concerned about the minoxidil building up in my system (topically applied IIRC it has a half life of 22 hours on the skin as opposed to a 2.8 - 4.2 hr half life when administered orally, google: "minoxidil half life topical", if interested)

If I feel like I can tolerate the 2.5-ish percent solution well enough I may just titrate back up to the full strength 5% solution, which because of the 22 hour half life, I am only applying once daily after a shower in the morning.

I'm now quite convinced that PG may have a way of amplifying and exacerbating negative effects of minoxidil in some users, I will have to give it a couple months of use to prove this, but I feel like combined with proper nutrition and the fact that I'm going to be using copper peptides and dermarolling to hopefully offset any possible adverse effects of minoxidil on the skin and collagen of my face, I will have a tradeoff-free recovery of hair growth.

Overall, the thing that has immediately blown me away by this product which I highly suspected, was that it was going to have markedly helpful vasodilation properties that have helped things other than my hair directly (good circulation is a prerequisite for good hair as we know). In this case it most certainly has which is a bonus effect on top of any potential hair growth for myself.

It may well have been that my body had such a PGE2 deficient environment and higher in PGD2 that both the vasoconstrictive symptoms and the hair loss go hand in hand, it would explain why aggressive use of androgen inhibitors did not solve my problem.

Hope you all find this information useful, I'll report back later once I have something to report.

All good stuff and very useful, thanks!! It's a bonus when biohacking hair issues leads to health optimization.

Makes sense that thin haired folks with vasoconstrictive issues like raynaud's might get a two for one benefit from using minoxidil if they can find their optimal dose. I developed raynaud's three years ago so this is definitely useful info. Damn canadian winters lol.

Are you open to sharing the non-pg min brand you are trying out? You do good research and I'm having a heck of a time picking one as the non-pg options all look a bit dodgy...lol

 

[Will Be an Egg in 5 years]

I'm starting a scalp massage routine on my temples. Let's see

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I'm starting a scalp massage routine on my temples. Let's see

I have been doing it to the point where I have trouble stopping as it becomes repetitive. We don't want to overdo things. But I will say when you are riding a positive trend things like massage and vigorous brushing should be very good for hair and not something we fear.

 

[Will Be an Egg in 5 years]

I have been doing it to the point where I have trouble stopping as it becomes repetitive. We don't want to overdo things. But I will say when you are riding a positive trend things like massage and vigorous brushing should be very good for hair and not something we fear.

Did you see any results? Today after the first session I shed a lot of minituarized hairs.

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

All good stuff and very useful, thanks!! It's a bonus when biohacking hair issues leads to health optimization.

Makes sense that thin haired folks with vasoconstrictive issues like raynaud's might get a two for one benefit from using minoxidil if they can find their optimal dose. I developed raynaud's three years ago so this is definitely useful info. Damn canadian winters lol.

Are you open to sharing the non-pg min brand you are trying out? You do good research and I'm having a heck of a time picking one as the non-pg options all look a bit dodgy...lol

Yeah it's minoxidilmax's non pg version, seems like it's legit stuff, go try it out.

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

Did you see any results? Today after the first session I shed a lot of minituarized hairs.

scalp massage is good, I'm not so keen on aggressive brushing or dermarolling if you have hair loss, you want to open up capillaries, not rake your follicles.

I have experienced actual hair loss from brushing due to it activating inflammation, so be very careful.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Did you see any results? Today after the first session I shed a lot of minituarized hairs.

I have several different effective treatments including derma-rolling so I can't say what's doing what but I am experiencing explosive growth currently from my protocol. It's thrilling to see the hair grow back and be able to brush it and part it like 40 years ago. It's never too late, apparently.

 

[jd_uk]

Derek from mpmd said he used it but saw no significant results and his serum E levels didn't change ( they were actually low ) i dont think he gave it a good try or tried to look into it more but from his experience, i'd say its not feminizing

He also looks like he's on a huge amount of anabolic steroids too though so not sure he's a good one to base the effects of topical estrogen on.

 

[jd_uk]

scalp massage is good, I'm not so keen on aggressive brushing or dermarolling if you have hair loss, you want to open up capillaries, not rake your follicles.

I have experienced actual hair loss from brushing due to it activating inflammation, so be very careful.

How often/long should you scalp massage for? I'm a bit worried about getting traction alopecia from it as my hair is so fine and pretty weak. Also about the grease from my fingers causing more problems than benefits? I've started dermarolling once per week but not yet using a growth stimulant besides the keto shampoo 3 times per week (and not on the day I dermaroll). Wondering what to use as I had a bad experience with minoxidil too.

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

How often/long should you scalp massage for? I'm a bit worried about getting traction alopecia from it as my hair is so fine and pretty weak. Also about the grease from my fingers causing more problems than benefits? I've started dermarolling once per week but not yet using a growth stimulant besides the keto shampoo 3 times per week (and not on the day I dermaroll). Wondering what to use as I had a bad experience with minoxidil too.

Just a bit to get the blood flowing do not go into obsessive territory and start dragging on your hair follicles, it's more of a static pressing and rotation of the tips of your fingers just to get the blood circulating and then once you've done that a bit to all desired areas you leave it alone.