Bryan, Vets, Need Your Take on Topical MSM!

[Temples]

Hey all guys with bald.

I know, it's been a good while since I've posted but I've been working LONG hours and haven't had much time.

Anyways, my regimen has been Folligen for Blondes mixed with emu oil for 4-5 months. I havent had any regrowth and I'm fearing that my male pattern baldness is progressing.

I was cruisin' the HairlossHelp.com forums and came across this post about topical MSM:

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/mess ... TARTPAGE=1

I've taken 3g of MSM (liginisil) daily orally before with pretty good results so I'm interested in its potential topically.

So, is putting 15-20 grams on your head twice daily safe?

Here's the copied text of the 1st post in the thread:

here's the text of his post:

"I've been drenching my scalp w/ MSM only for the past year. No DMSO,
no arginine, no minoxidil, etc. I'm 35, and my hair is now better
than it was at 21. I had a visible bald spot by 24, and now there's
no spot whatsoever--in fact, you can't even see the part line. I'm
growing it out for the first time in a decade, b/c in the past it
would look like sh*t if I tried to grow it long, and now it grows long
and thick. I even have to put pommade in it now to control it, and it
looks great with the wet look. Additionally, my gray hairs have
virtually vanished, similar to Oz's experience. This didn't happen
until I started applying the MSM+distilled H20 mixture to the sides of
my head (where the gray hairs were) as well. Recently, countless
people have asked me if I'm dying my hair dark.

Periodically, I apply a MSM+DMSO mixture to my face, and my skin has
become soft and virtually wrinkle-free. The reason I don't use DMSO
on my scalp is b/c my hair texture became greasy.

I take oral arginine on and off, 2-6 g/day, but I've been doing this
for five years, and all my results have occurred in the past few
months.

I also have used topical spironolactone (both % concentrations) on and off, but
I've been doing this for 3 yrs., and again, all my results have been
post-MSM.

The MSM for me is more than a temporary thickener. If I go w/o it for
a few days, there's no change.

So . . . for those of you who don't want to use DMSO for any reason
(e.g., the poster who has suffered terrible eye problems), I would
recommend trying massive amounts of MSM only for a few months. (I
saturate a water bottle with the powder, and soak my head with it
night and morning). For all others who have had great success w/ the
brew . . . carry on."

----------------------------------------------------------------

someone asked about his mixture: "Could you please advise approximately how many ounces or grams of MSM and how many grams of DMSO in your mixture?"

and he replied "In a 10 oz. bottle I usually put about 15-20 gms of MSM. I go through about a bottle per week."

i assume he's talking about a 10 oz bottle of water and MSM, not DMSO.

anyone think this is believable?

Thanks guys!

 

[Cornholio]

anyone think this is believable?

I WANT to believe it, but anytime one person posts unexpected amazing results you have to doubt a little. I am starting MSM oral this week based on the reports of 3 or 4 people on other boards... Probably cant hurt. But based on the lack of real studies I think the only way to investigate this is to try it yourself. Personally I dont want another topical...

That dose should be safe, as 20 gram/bottle used over a week is less than 3000mg a day... Thats less MSM than a lot of people take orally daily.

What results did you recieve with oral MSM? ?Thickening of hair shafts, ?regrowth ?faster growth?

 

[Temples]

anyone think this is believable?

I WANT to believe it, but anytime one person posts unexpected amazing results you have to doubt a little. I am starting MSM oral this week based on the reports of 3 or 4 people on other boards... Probably cant hurt. But based on the lack of real studies I think the only way to investigate this is to try it yourself. Personally I dont want another topical...

That dose should be safe, as 20 gram/bottle used over a week is less than 3000mg a day... Thats less MSM than a lot of people take orally daily.

What results did you recieve with oral MSM? ?Thickening of hair shafts, ?regrowth ?faster growth?

Ah, yes...I fouled up the math.

Well, with oral MSM I experienced great thickening after about a week, slightly faster growth and rock-hard nails. I tried a cheap Wal-Mart version and it sucks. The one I got from GNC with liginisil rocks.

So, I guess I should just buy some liquid liginisil MSM and mix about 20 g w/ 10 oz. of distilled water—right guys? I want to try this.

 

[Temples]

Bryan, gourmetstylewellness.com, anyone! I could really use your help with this as I cut chemistry (and math for that matter) in high school.

I found a link to pure liquid MSM with lignisul (spelled correctly this time I promise):

http://store.yahoo.com/herbal-remedies-usa/1333.html

Anyway, my head's goin' crazy tryin' to figure out what ratio to use based on this guy's application. Also, would liquid MSM become diluted by the water? I know, I'm retarded.

 

[Cornholio]

So, I guess I should just buy some liquid liginisil MSM and mix about 20 g w/ 10 oz. of distilled water—right guys? I want to try this.

As there is 390mg in a teaspoon of your MSM (from the website), Then 20 gram would be about 53 teaspoons of MSM. 1tsp is about 5ml. so 53 tsp would be (5x53) 265 ml of MSM.

So, put 265ml of the MSM in a measuring cup and add water until you have 10 ounces.

I would guess it would be cheaper to add MSM powder to 10 oz water, assuming it is soluable...
_________________________________________________________

"Dont be a fool, Stay in School." - Mr. T

 

[Petchsky]

I use it in my minoxidil and it seems to mix well enough. Be interested in your results Temples. Good to see you back.

 

[Temples]

Thanks Petch, Cornholio.

Guys! I've been using the powdered lignusil MSM w/distilled water in a spray bottle for roughly a week and I'm seeing improved thickness already. My nails are also starting to get really hard.

A few issues though:

It dries the sh*t out of my scalp. The first few days I had little flakes but then I started using emu oil at night and it helped. But as far as the day application I can't use emu oil because it weighs my hair down and makes it look crappy. There's also these weird "floaty" things when I brush my hair that aren't flakes but look kinda like lint.

Another thing is that I tend to get headaches (not regular ones) but weird ones if I spray too much on.

I'm looking for a way to mix the powdered MSM into emu oil or aloe vera gel. I don't know how much to put in though because I don't know how long it would take me to use the various bottles. Anyhow, here's the bottle sizes:

Aloe Vera Gel (99.7%) = 7.5 fl oz./200 ml

Emu Oil (100%) = 4 oz. w/ 2 oz. missing (half empty)

I'm hoping you guys can help me figure this out. Remember he said that he used about 15-20 grams per week.

Thanks guys!

 

[pilogenic101]

If you use the finely powdered lignisul MSM, one level teaspoon is about 4 grams, I understand. This will dissolve in distilled water. The "liquid MSM" mentioned above may be diluted with something else.

 

[MiddleAgedManiac]

Results

Let us know what kind of results you are seeing.

 

[d_umberly]

Thanks Petch, Cornholio.


I'm looking for a way to mix the powdered MSM into emu oil or aloe vera gel. I don't know how much to put in though because I don't know how long it would take me to use the various bottles. Anyhow, here's the bottle sizes:

Aloe Vera Gel (99.7%) = 7.5 fl oz./200 ml

Emu Oil (100%) = 4 oz. w/ 2 oz. missing (half empty)

I'm hoping you guys can help me figure this out. Remember he said that he used about 15-20 grams per week.

Thanks guys!

I have been experimenting with aloe vera gel and MSM for just a few days, I have been taking it internally for 3 months ( 4 grams a day). I am just making small batches, 2 oz. of gel to approx.4 grams ( 1 heaping teaspoon) of MSM Lignisul fine powder. Apparently aloe vera has transdermal properties as it does not lie on the skin or hair but seems to be absorbed within minutes. It is a bit sticky as you might expect but that is gone within 5 minutes.

Tip: Use a tea strainer or the like and do a fine grind on your bulk powder as it goes into solution much easier.

At the same time I bought the gel I also bought the pure food grade aloe vera liquid in a 1 gallon jug, which is meant for drinking. So here is my point.

I am going to try the spray on mix with 10 0z. liquid aloe vera and 20 grams of powdered Lignisul MSM. Here is how the cost will break down.

1 lb tub Pure MSM Lignisul = 453.5 grams/20 grams = 22.675 / 10 0z. bottles.

1 gallon aloe liquid = 128 oz /10 0z = 12.8 bottles of liquid.

So to make 23 bottles we will need two gallons of aloe liquid and 1 tub of MSM.

Retal cost:

$17 MSM Powder includes shipping
$20 Aloe Liquid 2 gallons

So $37/23 bottles = $1.65 each bottle

Aloe Vera I am told has SOD properties = good thing

MSM does make existing hair grow faster when taken internally, at least it has mine. = good thing because what hairs I have added from the big three also grow faster.

Seems a inexpensive harmless experiment to me. Opinions please.

 

[Temples]

Thanks Petch, Cornholio.


I'm looking for a way to mix the powdered MSM into emu oil or aloe vera gel. I don't know how much to put in though because I don't know how long it would take me to use the various bottles. Anyhow, here's the bottle sizes:

Aloe Vera Gel (99.7%) = 7.5 fl oz./200 ml

Emu Oil (100%) = 4 oz. w/ 2 oz. missing (half empty)

I'm hoping you guys can help me figure this out. Remember he said that he used about 15-20 grams per week.

Thanks guys!

I have been experimenting with aloe vera gel and MSM for just a few days, I have been taking it internally for 3 months ( 4 grams a day). I am just making small batches, 2 oz. of gel to approx.4 grams ( 1 heaping teaspoon) of MSM Lignisul fine powder. Apparently aloe vera has transdermal properties as it does not lie on the skin or hair but seems to be absorbed within minutes. It is a bit sticky as you might expect but that is gone within 5 minutes.

Tip: Use a tea strainer or the like and do a fine grind on your bulk powder as it goes into solution much easier.

At the same time I bought the gel I also bought the pure food grade aloe vera liquid in a 1 gallon jug, which is meant for drinking. So here is my point.

I am going to try the spray on mix with 10 0z. liquid aloe vera and 20 grams of powdered Lignisul MSM. Here is how the cost will break down.

1 lb tub Pure MSM Lignisul = 453.5 grams/20 grams = 22.675 / 10 0z. bottles.

1 gallon aloe liquid = 128 oz /10 0z = 12.8 bottles of liquid.

So to make 23 bottles we will need two gallons of aloe liquid and 1 tub of MSM.

Retal cost:

$17 MSM Powder includes shipping
$20 Aloe Liquid 2 gallons

So $37/23 bottles = $1.65 each bottle

Aloe Vera I am told has SOD properties = good thing

MSM does make existing hair grow faster when taken internally, at least it has mine. = good thing because what hairs I have added from the big three also grow faster.

Seems a inexpensive harmless experiment to me. Opinions please.

Wow, I even have a gallon of liquid aloe vera that I have been drinking for ulcers. I didn't even think of substituting the AV liquid for water. The only problem is that it may not absorb as well....but I've had the same experience with the gel in that I notice that it absorbs quickly. I think it helps that it has SD alcohol in it as well.

So what do you think would be better—the liquid prep or the gel? I've read that the gel is way more concentrated, but both my liquid and gel bottles say "99.7 %".

Also, how do you "mix" the powder into the gel? Do you stir it some way?

 

[d_umberly]

" Also, how do you "mix" the powder into the gel? Do you stir it some way?"

I add it slowly and stir. Using a fine grind of the powder, it will turn milky white at first but as the MSM slowly goes into solution the aloe gel will return to clear. I also added about 2ml of water, but I don't think you need it really.

I stir for thirty seconds before every application.

 

[d_umberly]

Wow, I even have a gallon of liquid aloe vera that I have been drinking for ulcers. I didn't even think of substituting the AV liquid for water. The only problem is that it may not absorb as well....but I've had the same experience with the gel in that I notice that it absorbs quickly. I think it helps that it has SD alcohol in it as well.

So what do you think would be better—the liquid prep or the gel? I've read that the gel is way more concentrated, but both my liquid and gel bottles say "99.7 %".

Also, how do you "mix" the powder into the gel? Do you stir it some way?

Well I mixed it up, using about 20 grams in 10 ozs. of Aloe Vera juice 99.8 %. It sprays on easily, the MSM goes into solution and the juice returns to its nearly clear color.

I put a few ounces in a spray bottle and applied wetting my entire scalp using approximately 1 oz. It dries quickly about 10 mins, leaves no greasy feeling or white residue. It feels good and I think it might have a positive effect on my scalp inflamation.

So I am going to add a bit more of the MSM to the next batch, say 25 grams Over time I hope to find the ratio at which the MSM will no longer go into soulution and back off from there until I find the saturation point.

I store the unused portion of the mixture in the frig, since the aloe vera juice is food grade and will spoil at room temperature. I leave a two day supply in the spritz bottle.

Let's see what happens, if any thing.

 

[Temples]

Wow, I even have a gallon of liquid aloe vera that I have been drinking for ulcers. I didn't even think of substituting the AV liquid for water. The only problem is that it may not absorb as well....but I've had the same experience with the gel in that I notice that it absorbs quickly. I think it helps that it has SD alcohol in it as well.

So what do you think would be better—the liquid prep or the gel? I've read that the gel is way more concentrated, but both my liquid and gel bottles say "99.7 %".

Also, how do you "mix" the powder into the gel? Do you stir it some way?

Well I mixed it up, using about 20 grams in 10 ozs. of Aloe Vera juice 99.8 %. It sprays on easily, the MSM goes into solution and the juice returns to its nearly clear color.

I put a few ounces in a spray bottle and applied wetting my entire scalp using approximately 1 oz. It dries quickly about 10 mins, leaves no greasy feeling or white residue. It feels good and I think it might have a positive effect on my scalp inflamation.

So I am going to add a bit more of the MSM to the next batch, say 25 grams Over time I hope to find the ratio at which the MSM will no longer go into soulution and back off from there until I find the saturation point.

I store the unused portion of the mixture in the frig, since the aloe vera juice is food grade and will spoil at room temperature. I leave a two day supply in the spritz bottle.

Let's see what happens, if any thing.

I just did the exact same thing you did—10 oz. AVJ w/ 20g MSM. Worked really good except that I got the "floaties" again. Do you see these when you brush your hair after it dries?

 

[d_umberly]

I

just did the exact same thing you did—10 oz. AVJ w/ 20g MSM. Worked really good except that I got the "floaties" again. Do you see these when you brush your hair after it dries?

I do not see any residue on my hair or scalp. I have light brown hair mixed with a lot of gray. I am guessing you have darker hair and that it shows up on yours where it disapears in mine.

Do you see any solids in your liquid after mixing? When I grind my MSM through a wire mesh tea strainer I always have small hard crystals left in the strainer which are hard to dissolve except in a warm to hot liquid such as coffee or tea. How are you applying the mixture?

One other thing, I have had some scalp irritation and decided to cut out the minoxidil for a week. It cleared up with help of T-gel and Tea tree shampoo and I decided last night to use it again. I put on the minoxidil with the dropper let it soak/dry for 15 mins. and then sprayed on the Aloe/MSM on top of that.

Surprisingly it removed about 75% of the greasy minoxidil feel and the hair was more fluffy. The greasy minoxidil did not run down the back of my neck or onto my forehead after the Aloe/MSM spray application.

I am assuming it was absorbed into the skin along with the Aloe/MSM! If I am right it could even make the minoxidil more effective due to better absorpton.

Later.

 

[thin=depressed]

msm is the biproduct(spelling?) of dmso production.

 

[d_umberly]

msm is the biproduct(spelling?) of dmso production.

It could be considered a by-product, it is the further processing of DMSO into MSM which would be the end goal in such a processing facility.

by-product

n 1: a secondary and sometimes unexpected consequence [syn: byproduct] 2: a product made during the manufacture of something else [syn: byproduct, spin-off]

Get ya some thin, it has a lot of good benefits.

Later

 

[thin=depressed]

I really have my doubts about its regrowth abilities although it would help a little with growth but by no means via cell interaction though.

 

[d_umberly]

I really have my doubts about its regrowth abilities although it would help a little with growth but by no means via cell interaction though.

Its main claim to fame is connective tissue.

It is also stated to help with the permability through cells? Not sure what that means if any thing. So it might make a difference.

I can tell you for me it has relieved joint pain, grows my existing hair faster along with my nails, has lessened my airborne allergies and shockingly helped with restoration of gum recession. Let's say it this way, I have seen several changes since having started taking it orally and after only 3 months.

Grow hair, probably not. Some claim it (MSM) has. It may be a waste of money, but it is not a big waste at a $1.65 a week.

Later

 

[Temples]

I

just did the exact same thing you did—10 oz. AVJ w/ 20g MSM. Worked really good except that I got the "floaties" again. Do you see these when you brush your hair after it dries?

I do not see any residue on my hair or scalp. I have light brown hair mixed with a lot of gray. I am guessing you have darker hair and that it shows up on yours where it disapears in mine.

Do you see any solids in your liquid after mixing? When I grind my MSM through a wire mesh tea strainer I always have small hard crystals left in the strainer which are hard to dissolve except in a warm to hot liquid such as coffee or tea. How are you applying the mixture?

One other thing, I have had some scalp irritation and decided to cut out the minoxidil for a week. It cleared up with help of T-gel and Tea tree shampoo and I decided last night to use it again. I put on the minoxidil with the dropper let it soak/dry for 15 mins. and then sprayed on the Aloe/MSM on top of that.

Surprisingly it removed about 75% of the greasy minoxidil feel and the hair was more fluffy. The greasy minoxidil did not run down the back of my neck or onto my forehead after the Aloe/MSM spray application.

I am assuming it was absorbed into the skin along with the Aloe/MSM! If I am right it could even make the minoxidil more effective due to better absorpton.

Later.

What is your exact method for grinding in a tea strainer (and excuse me for sounding retarded, but what the hell is a tea strainer)?

I warm the AVJ slightly in the microwave and add MSM powder and stir. It seems to dissolve well enough but I can still see powdery stuff in there. I apply via spray bottle and keep it inside the fridge like you do.

No, my hair isn't dark (blonde actually).

One side effect I've noticed is trouble with my eyes focusing. I think I may be using too much MSM or the aloe vera juice is acting as a penetration enhancer. It sucks. I get sides from almost everything.

Anyhow, it's been thickening my hair tremendously—so much so that I need pomade to control it, just like that dude. Maybe he's on to something.

My next experiment is simply squeezing some AV gel into the palm of my hand and adding 1/2 teaspoon MSM. Mix into hands and apply to scalp. I'll report back results.