CBS Philly News Article: Propecia Suicide!!!

[Mens Rea]

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2011/0 ... g-warning/



This is how serious this sh*t is for some people. The nay-sayers really have no idea what they are talking about.

PFS IS real and PFS has caused suicides.

 

[Pyro]

wow... f*** finasteride. RIP randy

 

[DoctorHouse]

Very sad post to read but I honestly think Randy may have had depression start on the day he noticed he was losing his hair and could be heading to a Norwood 7 like his dad. Hair loss and the potential to be totally bald at a young age could be very devastating for someone who had BDD tendency. I remember as a kid acne literally controlled my life like a drug. It made me anti-social, angry, depressed( used to sleep all the time) and I did even have thoughts of suicide. I could easily blame any medication I was taking for acne for my depression but realistically it was the acne.

Depression can cause sexually side effects in itself so you are never going to know for sure how much Propecia is to blame.

All in all any drug or supplement you take is always going to be a risk no matter what. Randy knew the risks and unfortunately for him they may have become long term. I am totally against using any medication for anything but when I chose to take Propecia I knew there can be long term consequences that I could trade one problem for another but the thought of losing my hair was more devastating so I took the gamble. He took a gamble and lost. He lost his life but I do blame Randy for not getting the help he really needed. Randy obviously had more emotional problems than what the media or his parents may have suspected. The fact that he was balding and had to stop a drug that could make him keep his hair was very devastating for him too. I feel very guilty sometimes when I worry about my hair to the point it ruins my whole day. Let's face it. I let my hair and how I look control how I feel. Not a very healthy thing to do.
However, I am emotionally stable enough to know suicide is not going to be the answer. Randy was not.

If only Randy would have accepted his fate and never took the drug, the outcome of suicide still could have been possible is Randy was traumatized by the fact he could be bald at young age. My point is there is so many factors in life that can alter us chemically and emotionally. Not just drugs but stress and life itself. Only your mind can control everything in your life and when you don't have the tools to know how to do that, it might be easier to just commit suicide. I can literally go from feeling like crap to feeling top of the world in amount of hours without anything to blame but my mind or my perspective. Randy's perspective that his life was over because he was going to be bald with sexually dysfunction was easily ended with suicide. Randy took the easy way out and he should have fought to realize that may men can function in life with certain handicaps. I was listening to Howard Stern and there was a case where a few men lost their penis in an accident and never recovered them. Yet they are able to function in society and still move on with their life.

My point is if you decide to take a drug. No matter what, you will have potential side effect and they can be permanent. If you don't want to take risks, don't take drugs unless they are critical to save your life. Hair loss is not critical but to Randy and alot of forum members on here is an obvious death sentence. Unfortunately for Randy, it was literally a death sentence.

Think of the other side of the coin, how would you feel if Propecia is taken off the market today due to what happened to Randy? How would you feel about that? Look what happen to Dr Lee and his products that so many hair loss suffers depend on. Now all gone. That did create a panic for some? What to do next? I think if it was, alot of you would start to seriously consider something like Proxiphen( just an example, this is no means to push this product) I know I would but I already use it so I know I would stick to it and Revivogen.

Don't take drugs unless you know it can alter your life forever and make things worse. Stick to natural topical treatments and live your life risk free. However if you have thoughts of suicide over you hair, get help and find someone who is the best in the field because your life is very precious and sexual dysfunction, acne or hair loss should not be a reason to end it.

 

[Mens Rea]

Doctor House,

despite that being a long elaborate post, it really is just an example of the usual bullshit PFS patients have to listen to.

Randy did try treatment for a start, but his sides were just too out of control. Here is one of his posts from PH:

I started taking Propecia in 1/2007 and experienced very strange mental side-effects almost immediately. I thought "maybe it's the Propecia" but then I read over the FDA documents and convinced myself that maybe I had brain damage from one of the illegal drugs I used. I knew something was wrong, but as time went on I just figured maybe I was just a weird kid (in retrospect it was a very stupid assumption as I was a completely different person). In 4/2008 I started taking Dutasteride and developed severe psychotic symptoms, complete lack of emotion, massive alcohol intake (which I suspect I was using to attempt to counter-act the effects of the medication). I grew extremely ill and slept almost 24 hours a day for two months, I grew breasts, had skin texture changes to a feminine style, my penis started bleeding/became sore and numb, I developed penile fibrosis, lost night-time erections, my scrotum tightened up to the size of an 8 year olds, my face became fatty and wrinkly, prostatic fluid disappeared, developed extreme testicular pain. In my psychotic state I figured I would switch back to the Finasteride as I didn't have the most devastating side-effects from the Dutasteride. I still wasn't "with it" think that maybe I should go see a doctor-- I thought the excruciating bleeding pain from the penis was from the type of soap I was using. The symptoms persisted and two months later I stopped the Finasteride. I was behaving extremely strangely and my parents thought I was going schizophrenic.

It has been two months and mental clarity is much better. I am completely conscious and "with it" but all my emotions are completely absent, memory is shot (I don't remember ANYTHING from the past including my childhood-- photos and old keep-sakes don't elicit any response from me what-so-ever), my sleep is completely fucked up (I will sometimes stay up for two days straight with no apparent reason or effects), and perhaps the worst part is I CANNOT LOVE OR FEEL LOVED. It is not psychological or situational, but chemical. I look at my mom and dad and feel nothing. I don't get happy, sad, angry, hungry, scared, frustrated, motivated... nothing. I have no passions for anything, my affect is completely blank. I used to be a social butterfly-- my friends LOVED to hang around me, I was everyone's best friend, and now I have difficulty hanging out in even comfortable social situations. I have extreme fatigue and peripheral neuropathy (I can't feel my body properly).

I used to be terrified of dying, care about the world and it's ills, I was amazing at work-- I now don't care if I live or die (not depressed, I just don't care), I don't "recognize" my parents or loved ones, I don't care to bathe myself or even watch TV (TV is all about the emotional responses-- drama, or comedy for example). I don't care about politics because I have no opinions (another emotional response). Without emotions nothing elicits pleasure or pain. NOTHING. The whole world of people runs around doing things like hugging and kissing and laughing and crying which I can no longer relate to. I used to be the EXACT opposite of what I am now-- a over-sensitive loving person.

Dutasteride erased my "soul". The ONLY positive side of this is that I also don't feel any negative emotions otherwise I would have already killed myself. I will give it more time but I have no reason to exist if this persists.

LIVING AND LOVING IS ALL ABOUT EMOTION. Without it you have nothing...

AND

I've been losing weight like crazy and have completely lost my thirst and hunger. The skin on my hands is dry and heals very slowly. I've been getting anxiety so bad that I've been pacing back and forth (initially for three weeks straight for 24 hours per day with only an hour or two of sleep per day) and currently pacing all day until I pass out. I have completely lost all sexual function after nearly two months of feeling like death with intense burning and stinging sensation in my genitals, testicular pain, scrotal retraction, and perianal bleeding, skin changes, numbness, complete fatigue, you name it. I look at my parents and I don't even recognize them. It's like I'm living another persons life. I've completely lost all emotions, I can barely see without constantly looking around the room, I cannot interact with people on even the most basic level, my memory and cognitive abilities are shot. I can't even sit and watch TV (I just can't even understand it). My family doesn't believe what is going on and thinks I've got Dissociative Anxiety Disorder (anxiety my ***-- but I can understand how he wouldn't want to believe it, even if he really believes it). I can barely speak in sentences and my IQ has got to be 90 points lower than it was. I'm no longer producing tears, mucus, or saliva. I've got gynocomastia and central weight gain. I make spelling mistakes all the time and can barely put sentences together. I've lost my livelihood (programming). I'm just taking up space-- the person I was would never want me to live like this.

It makes me feel better that I can just stop eating (hopefully without too much pain) and die. I refuse to live like this. Perhaps I'm luckier than some because I don't have a choice.

I ignored the symptoms for too long in my drastically altered state of mind with completely idiotic delusions for why I was experiencing so much pain. I so much wish that things could have been different but enough is enough.

I'm no longer human-- I don't belong here. I'm really hoping this drug kills me so I don't have to do it myself. I don't think my family and friends would ever understand a suicide but if they really knew the meaningless ghostly hell I've decended into then they would understand.

f*** DUTASTERIDE!

Yes, he took finasteride and dutasteride and they completely obliberated him. Simple as that.

I'm sure some people will jump all over the depression or the fact he admitted to taking "illegal drugs" in the past, though. I have met a guy with a very similar experience with the finasteride and dutasteride too, this drug can f*** up people's entire brain chemistry. It might take many years to find out exactly how but it's becoming increasingly obvious that there's something sinister going on.

The penile fibrosis, penile and testicular pain and suchlike are things almost no other young male will experience without a 5AR inhibitor being involved. Most doctors still seem to doubt that it's possible for penile atrophy to happen despite it being reported by many hundred of men on PH, including myself.

As i said the exact same thing happened to a guy i live close to. A few weeks of finasteride and one week of dustasteride COMPLETELY shut him down, mentally and physically. Out of nowhere. From completely normality to complete hell inside a few weeks.

All of this is sheer madness. It's so damn ridiculous people just don't believe it until it happens to them.

 

[Mens Rea]

Don't take drugs unless you know it can alter your life forever and make things worse. Stick to natural topical treatments and live your life risk free. However if you have thoughts of suicide over you hair, get help and find someone who is the best in the field because your life is very precious and sexual dysfunction, acne or hair loss should not be a reason to end it.

Most people have no idea what propecia can do. The labels might be changing now but that doesn't help the thousands and thousands who started the drug on the basis of the old label which clearly was inaccurate.

We are still a long way away from full awareness!!!

 

[DoctorHouse]

Thanks for sharing that posts. It only confirms Randy had emotional problems before he took the hair loss meds. By the way its up to the doctor prescribing the medications to warn about all potential sides. Randy may have gotten his drugs illegally like he did before.
I want to know if a urologist confirmed all of Randy's findings. If he did, then I believe what Randy said was true, if not, I don't buy all of his complaints. He may have a had an STD for all we know. He made have underlying medical problems not associated with it. He said he noticed changes the first day he took the drug. That does not seem sound to me.

Regardless, Randy sounds bipolar and he definitely has some severe mental disorders that maybe the drugs only enhanced.

We all trained at a young age to not do drugs. Randy obviously didn't care about that or his life.

I hope they do an autopsy on him to confirm all that he wrote.

 

[optimus prime]

I am not commenting on the affects of finasteride as I am not in a place to do so, but I will say this.

When I first discovered hair loss I suffered Anxiety. I could not sleep the first 4 nights or so. Then after that I would sleep quickly but wake 5am every morning, then 4am, then after a month 3am. Eventually it got to the point when I was sleeping at 8pm and waking at 12am. When I woke I was wide awake.

I did not have an interest in sex or work, all I wanted to do was sleep.

I went to the doctors and got my blood work checked and my hormones were all over the place. Why? Because I had mentally self destroyed myself, no medication needed.

I was reading an article from a doctor that said, when you imagine something your brain cannot tell if it is real or not. For example if you imagine in detail eating a lemon, your mouth will fill with saliva. I believe this can play a part with people who have negative thoughts.

Having said that, I do believe in the sides caused by Finasteride.

 

[Mens Rea]

. It only confirms Randy had emotional problems before he took the hair loss meds.

I don't see how you deduce this.

By the way its up to the doctor prescribing the medications to warn about all potential sides.

Doctor's simply follow the labels.

I want to know if a urologist confirmed all of Randy's findings. If he did, then I believe what Randy said was true, if not, I don't buy all of his complaints. He may have a had an STD for all we know. He made have underlying medical problems not associated with it.

No STD known to man does this.

I can produce more posts from him if you wish, but basically he's complaining of compete physical and mental shutdown. All senses seemed to be compromised. Sounds like some sort of autoimmune response. There is another guy with similiar issues which he got from Saw Palmetto. These 5AR inhibitors are fucked up sh*t, i assure you.

He said he noticed changes the first day he took the drug. That does not seem sound to me.

Finasteride begins working IMMEDIATELY. It immediately inhibits the 5ARII and blocks vital pathways. Many people have noticed massive effects in literally days. Your disbelief is just a sign of lack of knowledge.

Regardless, Randy sounds bipolar and he definitely has some severe mental disorders that maybe the drugs only enhanced.

Considering he said himself his soul was ripped out by dutasteride then it's not surprising how he presents. To conclude he was previously like this when he emphatically states he was not, is a little rich.

We all trained at a young age to not do drugs. Randy obviously didn't care about that or his life.

That's just a disgraceful comment which you should consider retracting if you have any decency.

I hope they do an autopsy on him to confirm all that he wrote.

They probably won't. Most hospitals are too lazy and too disinterested in all this stuff. One thing i've learned about the medical world in all of this is that they honestly are lightyears behind, most doctors are complete amateurs.

 

[Mens Rea]

I am not commenting on the affects of finasteride as I am not in a place to do so, but I will say this.

When I first discovered hair loss I suffered Anxiety. I could not sleep the first 4 nights or so. Then after that I would sleep quickly but wake 5am every morning, then 4am, then after a month 3am. Eventually it got to the point when I was sleeping at 8pm and waking at 12am. When I woke I was wide awake.

I did not have an interest in sex or work, all I wanted to do was sleep.

I went to the doctors and got my blood work checked and my hormones were all over the place. Why? Because I had mentally self destroyed myself, no medication needed.

I was reading an article from a doctor that said, when you imagine something your brain cannot tell if it is real or not. For example if you imagine in detail eating a lemon, your mouth will fill with saliva. I believe this can play a part with people who have negative thoughts.

Having said that, I do believe in the sides caused by Finasteride.

Yes. No doubt the brain is a powerful tool.

I think your posts demonstates the necessity for people to have healthy mindsets and be positive etc.

Many guys suffer from anxiety and suchlike , no doubt, but it's frustrating how the nay-sayers try to bracket all finasteride sufferers into this group out to save them having to address the more difficult questions. If anything, the trend on propeciahelp is most guys had happy-go-lucky life styles before, almost out of the blue, being struck down by finasteride/dutasteride side effects. Many in fact ignored them until them backcome too prominent to ignore (myself for instance).

There are certain things PFS patients are exhibiting that no other health issues cover either. PFS is unique, this is why most doctors are failing their patients trying to treat it, because they can't work out the root causes of some of these disasterous side effects.

 

[optimus prime]

@Mens Rea

(Sorry changing topic slightly)
What sides did you have? Did you get over them and if so how?

 

[Mens Rea]

@Mens Rea

(Sorry changing topic slightly)
What sides did you have? Did you get over them and if so how?

Sexual sides. No i haven't got over them, they got worse after cessation. I'm managing okay right now but im about 60-70% sexually and about 10% libido.

Sides:

Low libido
Penile atrophy (yes, tissue change, girth loss and shooting pains in penis)
Prostrate pains
Watery semen
Weak erections.


No mental sides thank God.

A year off and i'm still searching for recovery. I "bottomed out" around the 9 month mark, now i fluctuate from terrible to below average.

Previously: never a hint of sexual issue. I was operating at 150% of the average person (no joke).

 

[optimus prime]

Sexual sides. No i haven't got over them, they got worse after cessation. I'm managing okay right now but im about 60-70% sexually and about 10% libido.

Sides:

Low libido
Penile atrophy (yes, tissue change, girth loss and shooting pains in penis)
Prostrate pains
Watery semen
Weak erections.


No mental sides thank God.

A year off and i'm still searching for recovery. I "bottomed out" around the 9 month mark, now i fluctuate from terrible to below average.

Previously: never a hint of sexual issue. I was operating at 150% of the average person (no joke).

Is that 9 months on Propecia or 9 months after stopping?

Also, how watery is your semen?

 

[Mens Rea]

[quote="Mens Rea":1hh531nc]
Sexual sides. No i haven't got over them, they got worse after cessation. I'm managing okay right now but im about 60-70% sexually and about 10% libido.

Sides:

Low libido
Penile atrophy (yes, tissue change, girth loss and shooting pains in penis)
Prostrate pains
Watery semen
Weak erections.


No mental sides thank God.

A year off and i'm still searching for recovery. I "bottomed out" around the 9 month mark, now i fluctuate from terrible to below average.

Previously: never a hint of sexual issue. I was operating at 150% of the average person (no joke).

Is that 9 months on Propecia or 9 months after stopping?

Also, how watery is your semen?[/quote:1hh531nc]

9 months after stopping. I took it a year.

Semen varies. It's improved on hormone therapy (arimidex and pregnenolone) but prior to that, or even on a bad day, you could mistake it for pre-c*m. So, yeah, pretty watery at its worst.

 

[Thickandthin]

The kid was a nutcase. Inhibiting DHT caused him to NOT LOVE HIS PARENTS ANYMORE?

Give me a f*****g break.

 

[Mens Rea]

The kid was a nutcase. Inhibiting DHT caused him to NOT LOVE HIS PARENTS ANYMORE?

Give me a f****ing break.

You are a f*****g moron.

Calling the kid a "nut case" because you know jack-sh*t about finasteride or dustasteride.

FACTS:

5ARI in particular is found in the brain.

finasteride inhibits allopregnanolone a vital neurosteroid found in the blood and braind.

finasteride inhibits vital pathways that can mess with these functions.

Hormonal imbalance can distort many functions in itself.




....so many PFS patients decribe a complete emotional detachment after "crashing" from finasteride and dutasteride. Brain fog and depression and such like are in fact relatively common.


So how about you go read up instead of talking sh*t about someone who got so fucked up from finasteride/dutasteride that their completely lost themselves?

 

[optimus prime]

[quote="optimus prime":2jnjh1yl][quote="Mens Rea":2jnjh1yl]
Sexual sides. No i haven't got over them, they got worse after cessation. I'm managing okay right now but im about 60-70% sexually and about 10% libido.

Sides:

Low libido
Penile atrophy (yes, tissue change, girth loss and shooting pains in penis)
Prostrate pains
Watery semen
Weak erections.


No mental sides thank God.

A year off and i'm still searching for recovery. I "bottomed out" around the 9 month mark, now i fluctuate from terrible to below average.

Previously: never a hint of sexual issue. I was operating at 150% of the average person (no joke).

Is that 9 months on Propecia or 9 months after stopping?

Also, how watery is your semen?[/quote:2jnjh1yl]

9 months after stopping. I took it a year.

Semen varies. It's improved on hormone therapy (arimidex and pregnenolone) but prior to that, or even on a bad day, you could mistake it for pre-c*m. So, yeah, pretty watery at its worst.[/quote:2jnjh1yl]

Did you suffer any sides before you quit after the first year. How bad were they before you quit?

 

[Mens Rea]

Did you suffer any sides before you quit after the first year. How bad were they before you quit?

For the first 8-10 months i only noticed slightly less libido and that my erections needed more stimulation than before. I put that down to not having a girlfriend at the time. I stopped at the year mark when i literally wasn't arosed one morning with a girl. That was so crazy to me because pre-finasteride the only sexual problems i had would have been tryign to get rid of inappropriate erections!!! So i stopped it and things just got worse. Semen got watery and all the other sides happened AFTER cessation, penis pain etc after 6 months off.

Finasteride can mess up your body and create negative feedback loops with your hormones. My body still hasn't readjusted; it's clearly trying. There's more than hormones involved though, finasteride has the capacity to cause great deals of damage to one's body that the scientists are still trying to work out.

Two problems: There isn't enough interest from the medical community to research it.

And two: Most of the sides we get are easily palmed off by ignorant doctors. Doctors don't really care about your hairloss, a hairloss drug or even your sexual problems. All these things are bottom of their priorities.

The truth will come out but it could take a decade. God knows how many men will be fucked up by then. I shudder to think, but i guarantee you it's going to be pretty tragic. There is a new member on PH every single day all reporting almost idential problems.

 

[Wuffer]

Great post, DoctorHouse. I was going to reply with something similar, but your post was much more eloquent than mine would have been.

This article is spinning the story as: Young guy takes finasteride, has permanent sexual problems and commits suicide because of it. This is quite shortsighted. This guys post does indeed indicate severe depression and anxiety. As a matter of fact, this eerily reminded me of my own personal battle with anxiety years ago, and it could have easily been something I wrote myself. To me, this is simply more evidence that people are experiencing severe depression after taking Finasteride. This may very well indeed be caused by the drug directly, but it's hard to say.

Finasteride/dutasteride may very well have exacerbated pre-existing depression, but how do we know for certain Finasteride/dutasteride directly caused all his problems, and that they weren’t a symptom of the depression or anxiety? Almost all the symptoms he describes could have easily been caused by either of those. My point is that his depression is treatable, and the fact that he had such severe depression to the point of committing suicide indicates his symptoms may be a result of it.

My big problem with propeciahelp is the mantra that all the problems people report are always a direct result of taking Finasteride, and that only when the (currently unknown) cause of these finasteride problems are treated, will the symptoms abate. However, this is extremely counterproductive in the grand scheme of things. I am a firm believer that anxiety and depression are caused by the thoughts; not a result of a chemical imbalance. Sure, a chemical imbalance could absolutely predispose certain people to these problems (which might be the case with Finasteride) but I believe in this case, therapy would have been extremely effective in preventing this terrible outcome. New treatments such as Cognitive Behavioral Therapy are shown to be much more effective than SSRI’s, and simply rely on re-programming the brain through repetition (ie. positive brainwashing).

I’ve spent a lot of time reading propeciahelp. I feel it perpetuates hopelessness to its members, and generally discourages people to seek any type of mental therapy, even when most of them clearly display signs of depression. When you convince yourself that Finasteride is the be-all, end-all cause of ALL your problems, therapy isn’t even considered. Proper treatment and therapy very well may have saved this guys life, and it’s so unfortunate he decided to take the route he did.

 

[I AM AWESOME]

Great post, DoctorHouse. I was going to reply with something similar, but your post was much more eloquent than mine would have been.

This article is spinning the story as: Young guy takes finasteride, has permanent sexual problems and commits suicide because of it. This is quite shortsighted. This guys post does indeed indicate severe depression and anxiety. As a matter of fact, this eerily reminded me of my own personal battle with anxiety years ago, and it could have easily been something I wrote myself. To me, this is simply more evidence that people are experiencing severe depression after taking Finasteride. This may very well indeed be caused by the drug directly, but it's hard to say.

Finasteride/dutasteride may very well have exacerbated pre-existing depression, but how do we know for certain Finasteride/dutasteride directly caused all his problems, and that they weren’t a symptom of the depression or anxiety? Almost all the symptoms he describes could have easily been caused by either of those. My point is that his depression is treatable, and the fact that he had such severe depression to the point of committing suicide indicates his symptoms may be a result of it.

My big problem with propeciahelp is the mantra that all the problems people report are always a direct result of taking Finasteride, and that only when the (currently unknown) cause of these finasteride problems are treated, will the symptoms abate. However, this is extremely counterproductive in the grand scheme of things. I am a firm believer that anxiety and depression are caused by the thoughts; not a result of a chemical imbalance. Sure, a chemical imbalance could absolutely predispose certain people to these problems (which might be the case with Finasteride) but I believe in this case, therapy would have been extremely effective in preventing this terrible outcome. New treatments such as Cognitive Behavioral Therapy are shown to be much more effective than SSRI’s, and simply rely on re-programming the brain through repetition (ie. positive brainwashing).

I’ve spent a lot of time reading propeciahelp. I feel it perpetuates hopelessness to its members, and generally discourages people to seek any type of mental therapy, even when most of them clearly display signs of depression. When you convince yourself that Finasteride is the be-all, end-all cause of ALL your problems, therapy isn’t even considered. Proper treatment and therapy very well may have saved this guys life, and it’s so unfortunate he decided to take the route he did.

I've seen numerous stories on Propecia help of members saying that once they forgot about their worries and got off propecia help they returned to normal. Seems to tell a lot I'd say.

 

[Prop]

I've seen numerous stories on Propecia help of members saying that once they forgot about their worries and got off propecia help they returned to normal. Seems to tell a lot I'd say.

i know some that don't go again on PH because there are no real solutions
about their sides problems.

with one of them i spoke personally