Creatine supplements and finasteride..

[captain_que]

Does anybody know if it´s ok to take creatine supplements while on finasteride? It leads more water to the muscles, so wondering if this could lead to some unwanted side effects..?

 

[TheGrayMan2001]

should have no effect.

 

[captain_que]

Does anybody know if it´s ok to take creatine supplements while on finasteride? It leads more water to the muscles, so wondering if this could lead to some unwanted side effects..?

Do you have any references showing that creatine phosphate supplementation leads to more water in the muscle cell ? I am curious, I think it is an Internet myth but I am not sure.

From what I know, in its phosphorylated form, creatine serves as an energy substrate that contributes to the synthesis of ATP during exercise. So elevated muscle creatine phosphate enhances exercise performance via an increased ability to match ATP supply to ATP demand (phosphorylation of ADP). In other words, you will have more energy during your workout.

I don´t have any references, just something I´ve heard over and over for a few years now from people using it..
If it does, I can´t imagine that it would be a good thing..
The extra energy when working out is what I´m after...

 

[ReichAndRoll]

Having supplemented creatine on numerous occasions, i can testify that some do cause you to retain water. I believe this is the reason some claim that after only a short amount of time supplementing creatine they see "visual results" and mistake the added water weight for lean muscle gain. If "extra energy" is all you're after... have you given any pre workout supplements a look? IE something to boost your endurance, give you energy, and increase your strength...

 

[Chris87]

Sorry im hopping in on this late..i usually dont check this section of the boards.

I read somewhere that creatine increases DHT level so i assume that WOULD have some effect? I dont know if this is true at all

 

[Mens Rea]

Creatine monohydate increases DHT levels alot.

 

[MrBastard]

Just for proofs

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19741313

Three weeks of creatine monohydrate supplementation affects dihydrotestosterone to testosterone ratio in college-aged rugby players.

van der Merwe J, Brooks NE, Myburgh KH.

Department of Physiological Sciences, Stellenbosch University, Stellenbosch, South Africa.

Comment in:

* Clin J Sport Med. 2010 May;20(3):220; author reply 220-2.

Abstract

OBJECTIVE: This study investigated resting concentrations of selected androgens after 3 weeks of creatine supplementation in male rugby players. It was hypothesized that the ratio of dihydrotestosterone (DHT, a biologically more active androgen) to testosterone (T) would change with creatine supplementation.

DESIGN: Double-blind placebo-controlled crossover study with a 6-week washout period.

SETTING: Rugby Institute in South Africa.

PARTICIPANTS: College-aged rugby players (n = 20) volunteered for the study, which took place during the competitive season.

INTERVENTIONS: Subjects loaded with creatine (25 g/day creatine with 25 g/day glucose) or placebo (50 g/day glucose) for 7 days followed by 14 days of maintenance (5 g/day creatine with 25 g/day glucose or 30 g/day glucose placebo).

MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Serum T and DHT were measured and ratio calculated at baseline and after 7 days and 21 days of creatine supplementation (or placebo). Body composition measurements were taken at each time point.

RESULTS: After 7 days of creatine loading, or a further 14 days of creatine maintenance dose, serum T levels did not change. However, levels of DHT increased by 56% after 7 days of creatine loading and remained 40% above baseline after 14 days maintenance (P < 0.001). The ratio of DHT:T also increased by 36% after 7 days creatine supplementation and remained elevated by 22% after the maintenance dose (P < 0.01).

CONCLUSIONS: Creatine supplementation may, in part, act through an increased rate of conversion of T to DHT. Further investigation is warranted as a result of the high frequency of individuals using creatine supplementation and the long-term safety of alterations in circulating androgen composition. STATEMENT OF CLINICAL RELEVANCE: Although creatine is a widely used ergogenic aid, the mechanisms of action are incompletely understood, particularly in relation to dihydrotestosterone, and therefore the long-term clinical safety cannot be guaranteed.

 

[TheGrayMan2001]

Sounds like DHT increase is probably an afterproduct of creatine intake then.

I don't require any supplements, 100% natural and gaining muscle every week.

 

[ryan r]

The is question I have is: how much will DHT levels rise when you are on finasteride?

There could be a different (lower) rise of dht levels when a person is on finasteride.

Anyway I think that an increase of dht for a couple of weeks now and then isnt that devastating for the hair.

 

[MrBastard]

7 days load + 14 days maintance is a long time... Some people dont even know that they should use it in cycles and do it all of the time.
The "new" creatine (monohydrate? The one who dont buff you out) you can use every day all year long no problem without cycles. Sounds like lots of DHT to me. No idea if that alter the DHT like that thogh.

A full study with bloodtests on finasteride vs finasteride + creatine study whould be interesting

 

[ryan r]

Well most people do 6 weeks with one week or 4 days loading, thats more than what they did.

Im not a fan of continuing usage of creatine, like all year long.

I think the stuff would loose its effect somehow.

But yeah, a study crea vs crea + finasteride would be very interresting

 

[TheGrayMan2001]

Before I got on finasteride, I took creatine consistently for about 3 months..the monohydrate or whatever I didn't have to cycle. I didn't notice any strength gains from taking it, only what I pushed myself to do. Getting off of it produced no negative effects.

DHT has little to do with strength in most people anyway.

 

[HT55]

DHT has little to do with strength in most people anyway.

DHT is 3 times stronger than T and is VERY important for strength

I would love to see if they guys with the elevated DHT from taking Creatine also are growing thicker beards and more body hair, common elevated DHT side effects

I can't take 100mg/week of T an Propecia without losing hair but I can take Creatine in 8 week cycles with a loading phase of 20mg/day and a regualr 10mg/day and not lose any hair.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/reform8.htm

"I have heard several anecdotal reports of individuals who have stacked testosterone with proscar (a 5-AR inhibitor) and have noticed significantly reduced performance enhancement effects. What's going on here? We know it couldn't be due to the inhibition of the direct anabolic activity of testosterone on muscle anabolism. Most likely it is due to the reduction of androgenic effects in other parts of the body that contribute to the ergogenic effects, specifically the CNS, which is stimulated by androgens to increase neural output leading to greater strength and greater recoverability. Another possibility is a reduction in the production of androgen dependent liver growth factors (such as IGF-1), since DHT is an important androgen in the liver.

 

[TheGrayMan2001]

That bodybuilding article is bunk, he even admits it by saying anecdotal evidence then attempts to construct a scientific sounding case for it.

DHT is not important for overall strength, T is. The article basically explains that without coming to the correct conclusion.

 

[HT55]

That bodybuilding article is bunk, he even admits it by saying anecdotal evidence then attempts to construct a scientific sounding case for it.

DHT is not important for overall strength, T is. The article basically explains that without coming to the correct conclusion.

I posted the article as a refference, it's common knowledge DHT is important for strength, believe what you want as even though I use Propecia my DHT is normal.

I used dutasteride for 2 months and my bench was down to around 315 x 3, blood test revealed SUPER LOW DHT. Stopped the dutasteride and back to 365 x 6 in 3 months in my early 40's

There was no reason in the world for my lifts ( and muscle loss) to go down that much except for a DHT level near ZERO !

My total T, LH, FSH, E2 and SHBG all remained unchanged for the most part.

 

[squeegee]

Creatine increases ATP in your muscles.. this is it.. Creatine has nothing to do with Sex hormones.. Take it if you hit the gym or stay away from it because your body is making it.. ATP is energy. This is why you have to wait between each set.. You body need to remanufacture atp.. so you can go back to your repetitions.. More creatine= longer set, more rep.. less wait between=more muscles. unk:

 

[squeegee]

That bodybuilding article is bunk, he even admits it by saying anecdotal evidence then attempts to construct a scientific sounding case for it.

DHT is not important for overall strength, T is. The article basically explains that without coming to the correct conclusion.

I posted the article as a refference, it's common knowledge DHT is important for strength, believe what you want as even though I use Propecia my DHT is normal.

I used dutasteride for 2 months and my bench was down to around 315 x 3, blood test revealed SUPER LOW DHT. Stopped the dutasteride and back to 365 x 6 in 3 months in my early 40's

There was no reason in the world for my lifts ( and muscle loss) to go down that much except for a DHT level near ZERO !

My total T, LH, FSH, E2 and SHBG all remained unchanged for the most part.

I experienced the same thing with dutasteride which is f*****g poison. DHT is the most powerful androgen in your body.period. More DHT, more receptors, more strength.