Darolutamide (odm-201), A Better Topical Than Enzalutamide?

SteveTabernack · Jan 23, 2018

Yeah that's really nothing @Sanchez1234

This is what comes out for me when all I do is run my hands through hair for like 30 sec (no water use)

Recon_s · Jan 23, 2018

Daro doesn't seem to work not sure why everyone is still trying to jump on this stuff...just sit back and look who has had success with it?

IdealForehead · Jan 23, 2018

Recon_s said:
Daro doesn't seem to work not sure why everyone is still trying to jump on this stuff...just sit back and look who has had success with it?

I'm curious in what scientific way you think the most powerful antiandrogen on the planet could "not work" for androgenic hair loss or how you think people should be able to judge the success of an antiandrogen in less than 2 months when finasteride doesn't show statistically significant results until the 6 month point.

Too many people on this site are crazy, uninformed, and/or unreasonable.

I agree people shouldn't be jumping on the bandwagon but this has nothing to do with whether it works or not. If you use a high enough dose you can castrate your entire body more completely than even cutting off your testicles. Think you'll still have androgenic alopecia then?

Recon_s · Jan 23, 2018

IdealForehead said:
I'm curious in what scientific way you think the most powerful antiandrogen on the planet could "not work" for androgenic hair loss or how you think people should be able to judge the success of an antiandrogen in less than 2 months when finasteride doesn't show statistically significant results until the 6 month point.

Too many people on this site are crazy, uninformed, and/or unreasonable.

I agree people shouldn't be jumping on the bandwagon but this has nothing to do with whether it works or not. If you use a high enough dose you can castrate your entire body. Think you'll still have androgenic alopecia then?

Come on man I love your enthusiasm and information on the topic buts its not working, the reason people are jumping on it is because you have flooded some sheep with great info claimed its working without any evidence and low and behold desperate people see potential hope and dive straight in. The desperate people don't read in between the lines here they just see the magic potion and get it no thought of the serious side effects etc. You are the pioneer of Daro on this site probably95% of the reason people got on this stuff...but not one shred of evidence it actually works... same with Enza people are on that longer and nothing so your two month argument doesn't fly either

IdealForehead · Jan 23, 2018

Recon_s said:
Come on man I love your enthusiasm and information on the topic buts its not working, the reason people are jumping on it is because you have flooded some sheep with great info claimed its working without any evidence and low and behold desperate people see potential hope and dive straight in. The desperate people don't read in between the lines here they just see the magic potion and get it no thought of the serious side effects etc. You are the pioneer of Daro on this site probably95% of the reason people got on this stuff...but not one shred of evidence it actually works... same with Enza people are on that longer and nothing so your two month argument doesn't fly either

I have repeatedly told people not to use this due to safety issues, risk of transfer to others if you're not careful, and lack of safe dosing guidelines. So I'm hardly a cheerleader for this and don't mind you also discouraging people.

However I have a hard time abiding stupidity.

Facts:
- Androgenic alopecia is caused by testosterone and DHT binding to androgen receptors, triggering an inflammatory cascade which destroys hair follicles.
- Darolutamide is the strongest androgen receptor antagonist currently in existence with a potency that dwarves by 100x+ the strength of many conventional agents.
- Adequate doses of darolutamide are scientifically proven to castrate men more effectively than actually cutting off their testicles.
- Darolutamide is therefore the strongest agent which can be used in aggressive treatment resistant prostate cancer.
- Finasteride, the best proven medication for hair loss, does not on average show statistically significant results in studies until 6 months of use. In some small studies it has taken up to 12 months.

As stated before there are no dosing guidelines for daro in hair use. There is no safety data. I expect I am probably damaging my fertility long term. I know I am drying my eyes and skin daily.

With finasteride some people get adequate DHT suppression with 0.25 mg per day. Some people need 2.5 mg. Some people need dutasteride because finasteride isn't enough. The dose of something like daro that works for one person might be wildly different than the dose that works for another. This is why I started with the highest dose I could handle and reduced from there to what was manageable long term.

But again, sufficient doses of darolutamide will castrate you more completely than cutting off your testicles. Unless you can explain how it would be possible to continue losing hair in that circumstance, I don't have anything else to say to you.

Sanchez1234 · Jan 23, 2018

SteveTabernack said:
Yeah that's really nothing @Sanchez1234

This is what comes out for me when all I do is run my hands through hair for like 30 sec (no water use)

View attachment 77450

Its not all i shed ofcourse. I probably have the same amount as you if i run my hair trough my hairs. My photo is just a moment of 2 sec. If i wash my hand and go trough my hair again i get the same amount.

But is doesnt matter, hope its Telogen Effluvium and i will get maintenance in month 3.
A guy can dream

Georgie · Jan 23, 2018

Sanchez1234 said:
Its not all i shed ofcourse. I probably have the same amount as you if i run my hair trough my hairs. My photo is just a moment of 2 sec. If i wash my hand and go trough my hair again i get the same amount.

But is doesnt matter, hope its Telogen Effluvium and i will get maintenance in month 3.
A guy can dream

I’ll be starting daro soon too. As far as I know I’m the first female to try it. I’ll probably start
My own thread.

peewee · Jan 23, 2018

I'll start daro soon and I'll know right away. I respond very well to antiandrogens. Just so many years I guess my body gets used to it and they stop working. I'll post my results here.

Georgie · Jan 23, 2018

peewee said:
I'll start daro soon and I'll know right away. I respond very well to antiandrogens. Just so many years I guess my body gets used to it and they stop working. I'll post my results here.

Cool. Keep up updated.

furrydome · Jan 23, 2018

Guys/Gals, I'm a little concerned about everyone who's suddenly jumping on this bandwagon.

Only 2 of us here reported any success. In one of them (my case) daro was not an extreme game changer. It was microneedling that kicked off new growth, and RU that accelerated it. Daro only seemed to be a slight improvement over RU, and that could even be placebo effect.

On the other hand, there are lots of reasons to wait a bit and see how it really turns out:
- Produced by unknown, unregulated Chinese labs, not intended for internal use
- Due to the above, we don't know what contaminants could be left in the stuff you get. My last mixture ended up with a swirl of white powdery looking stuff at the bottom. WTF is that, some other chemical? Is it going to give me cancer?
- The drug itself is so new, and structurally different from other similar drugs (Enzalutamide), that all we really know come from early clinical trials with very short-term use

We're all panicking because we're too young to be losing hair. But that's the point, we're young and have a lot of life left. Any one of us could get a well done "hair system" and end the anxiety, stop taking crazy risks, and go on living a confident life without screwing up our future with weird drugs.

Replicel/Shiseido RCH-01 in a year or so. Follica in maybe 2 years? Tsuji/Riken in maybe 3 years? PDO threads potentially NOW? The future is bright.

If I were, say, 19 and balding, I'd get a "hair system" immediately, NEVER look bald, and wait for the good stuff that we know is coming.

Personally I've decided to lower my dose of daro for all of the above reasons, plus a concern about gyno. Been feeling pressure in the nipple areas, and starting to think that more anti-androgens weren't a great idea. I was getting slow but steady regrowth on just min+finasteride+needling, and was stable on that for years.

Just trying to help y'allz...

IdealForehead · Jan 23, 2018

furrydome said:
Guys/Gals, I'm a little concerned about everyone who's suddenly jumping on this bandwagon.

Only 2 of us here reported any success. In one of them (my case) daro was not an extreme game changer. It was microneedling that kicked off new growth, and RU that accelerated it. Daro only seemed to be a slight improvement over RU, and that could even be placebo effect.

On the other hand, there are lots of reasons to wait a bit and see how it really turns out:
- Produced by unknown, unregulated Chinese labs, not intended for internal use
- Due to the above, we don't know what contaminants could be left in the stuff you get. My last mixture ended up with a swirl of white powdery looking stuff at the bottom. WTF is that, some other chemical? Is it going to give me cancer?
- The drug itself is so new, and structurally different from other similar drugs (Enzalutamide), that all we really know come from early clinical trials with very short-term use

We're all panicking because we're too young to be losing hair. But that's the point, we're young and have a lot of life left. Any one of us could get a well done "hair system" and end the anxiety, stop taking crazy risks, and go on living a confident life without screwing up our future with weird drugs.

Replicel/Shiseido RCH-01 in a year or so. Follica in maybe 2 years? Tsuji/Riken in maybe 3 years? PDO threads potentially NOW? The future is bright.

If I were, say, 19 and balding, I'd get a "hair system" immediately, NEVER look bald, and wait for the good stuff that we know is coming.

Personally I've decided to lower my dose of daro for all of the above reasons, plus a concern about gyno. Been feeling pressure in the nipple areas, and starting to think that more anti-androgens weren't a great idea. I was getting slow but steady regrowth on just min+finasteride+needling, and was stable on that for years.

Just trying to help y'allz...

Agreed 100%. Daro was a game changer for me because finasteride and dutasteride don't work on me. I'm genetically resistant to both. They don't lower my DHT at all.

So my options were only RU (too weak, kept shedding, just slower), cypro (severe impotence), and spironolactone (impotence and terrible diuretic effect).

Daro changed that by giving me a new option that has worked fantastically and been very tolerable. It's changed my life because now I know I never have to go bald, which means a lot to me. But I don't see any reason for 99%+ of people to use it with all the risks and unknowns.

If I had a choice I'd much rather just be on finasteride like most normal people.

The only thing you said I would argue against is a hairpiece. I had a custom hairpiece made for $600 from a good lace base to cut into frontal partials for planning of my ongoing forehead reduction. I wanted something I could attach in order to test different new hairline positions.

My experience with it has been that I would never in a million years want to be in a hairpiece. I'll take daro to death over that. Trading balding natural hair for a hairpiece is just trading one set of anxieties for another.

Also, it's worth mentioning that you have more to worry about from RU impurities than you would from daro ones, given that if you take both at 99.7% purity (for example), but you're applying 5 mg daro a day, that's only 0.015 mg impurity per day. If you take RU at 100 mg a day, that's 0.3 mg impurity (ie. 20x the impurity quantity). A lot of impurities are just residual solvents that aren't dangerous in such tiny doses anyway, but still, it's one of the things I didn't like about RU when I was using 300 mg a day.

Georgie · Jan 24, 2018

I’m just gonna say that I’m doing all the ladies a favour by guinea pigging myself. Also I’m literally gonna neck myself soon so I’m happy to jump right into the deep end because i’m a dead woman otherwise. I don’t have the psychological will to deal with this sh*t. Go hard or go home ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

peewee · Jan 24, 2018

It always makes me laugh when people here think they won't care about hair when they are older, like it suddenly won't matter. You'll find out.

Georgie · Jan 24, 2018

peewee said:
It always makes me laugh when people here think they won't care about hair when they are older, like it suddenly won't matter. You'll find out.

My entire issue is that I don’t WANT to grow old with this miserable bullshit. Some people possess the resilience and self-esteem to lose their hair gracefully. I am not one of these people. I was never going to be, and never WILL be. I’m not wired that way. So it’s hair or a hole in the ground. Sounds like hyperbole but I could not be more f*****g dead serious. I’m pretty sure there are others who also share these views.

SteveTabernack · Jan 24, 2018

furrydome said:
Any one of us could get a well done "hair system" and end the anxiety, stop taking crazy risks, and go on living a confident life without screwing up our future with weird drugs..

You are not serious.

A wig is my no means a solution to ending anxiety. It is truly the last resort, as has been confirmed by users on this forum who have actually tried it.

And waiting for treatments that may or may not come is not a sound strategy in my opinion. Just 5 more years eh. The time to live is now. Every year of baldness takes a toll.

That being said, of course you are right in saying one has to give some very serious thought before starting something like this. The risk for your health is very real. But lets no pretend like baldness does not carry risks of its' own. I know that for me personally, it will put a tremendous strain on my mental health and severely limit my overall quality of life. Hence, I am willing to take this gamble. Even though the chance of success at this point indeed is very unproven, there's at least reason to think it could be a good treatment. Not like praying for some natural treatment BS to halt the hair loss.

whatevr · Jan 24, 2018

furrydome said:
We're all panicking because we're too young to be losing hair. But that's the point, we're young and have a lot of life left. Any one of us could get a well done "hair system" and end the anxiety, stop taking crazy risks, and go on living a confident life without screwing up our future with weird drugs.

Replicel/Shiseido RCH-01 in a year or so. Follica in maybe 2 years? Tsuji/Riken in maybe 3 years? PDO threads potentially NOW? The future is bright.

There's a lot of life left, and not a whole lot of my 20's left. I'm already 25. I've never been with a beautiful 19-20 year old girl in my life and probably never will. Every year that I spend being a thin NW2.5 is a year of my life lost and countless experiences foregone. Even if you get back a NW1, you will never get back your youth, the one that HAIR LOSS took away. At this point I won't be content with just complete hair reversal, I want f*****g anti-aging to boot.

Hair system to end hair loss anxiety? HAHAHA. Then do it yourself, don't be a hypocrite. You know damn well you'd spend every minute of the day wondering if you've taped that sh*t on properly, if it looks legit, and if someone can tell. Never mind when sports, water, wind, having sex, worrying about being found out, talk about anxiety. I'd probably be having panic attacks several times daily.

About the future looking bright, go look at threads on this forum from 2005. They thought that too. I don't believe a single one of these f*****g companies until a tangible product is ON THE MARKET, and results start pouring in left and right. Until then, it is as good as vaporware, and whoever puts their money on those companies instead of doing what they can in the present is a moron in my opinion.

Georgie · Jan 24, 2018

whatevr said:
There's a lot of life left, and not a whole lot of my 20's left. I'm already 25. I've never been with a beautiful 19-20 year old girl in my life and probably never will. Every year that I spend being a thin NW2.5 is a year of my life lost and countless experiences foregone. Even if you get back a NW1, you will never get back your youth, the one that HAIR LOSS took away. At this point I won't be content with just complete hair reversal, I want f*****g anti-aging to boot.

Hair system to end hair loss anxiety? HAHAHA. Then do it yourself, don't be a hypocrite. You know damn well you'd spend every minute of the day wondering if you've taped that sh*t on properly, if it looks legit, and if someone can tell. Never mind when sports, water, wind, having sex, worrying about being found out, talk about anxiety. I'd probably be having panic attacks several times daily.

About the future looking bright, go look at threads on this forum from 2005. They thought that too. I don't believe a single one of these f*****g companies until a tangible product is ON THE MARKET, and results start pouring in left and right. Until then, it is as good as vaporware, and whoever puts their money on those companies instead of doing what they can in the present is a moron in my opinion.

Reminds me of when (probably the same for all of us), I just started losing My hair. I heard about Rogaine, I saw the commercial Products that promised me my hair back. I was ELATED. Everything was going to be alright. The cure was there. Enter disappointment. When i saw the testimonials about spironolactone. I was SO excited. Jumped on it straight away. Disappointment. Laser helmets, stemoxydine, aminexil, cetirizine. Each time we’ve found something else, I have become more and more skeptical, and more hopeless, because I know realistically that A: hairloss will take some incredibly scientifically invasive sh*t to cure.
B: It is a HUGE money-making industry where big companies like to take advantage of desperate and insecure people.
C: Everything so far to claim “cure”, EVEN with “studies” to back it, has flopped or doesn’t work for those with aggressive hairloss
D: The majority of big companies don’t give enough of a sh*t about hairloss to fund long-term REAL studies. So most just peter out. I don’t hold any hope for shishedo/Follica/Tsuji being any different, because I refuse to be crushed by disappointment yet again. I only just have enough strength as it is to get up every day and tell myself that, although I’m losing all of my hair at 24, my life isn’t totally over (although I don’t truly believe that).

Call me bitter and cycnical, and yes, it sounds melodramatic, but I have had my heart broken over and over by promises and false hope. It hurts worse each time, as reality sinks further and further into my sad brain. We have to use what we have right now, or run the risk of waiting on a fantasy.

But that’s just me.

peewee · Jan 24, 2018

So much pain for all of us. Im sad and sorry for all of us. The wouldn't wish this mental torture on anyone.
I'm so tired of dumpin crap on my head twice per day and worrying and watching the hair fall. I'm so hopeful that daro will work and I won't have the sides of ru and dutasteride. If daro doesn't work then I'll slowly finish the balding process.

Georgie · Jan 24, 2018

peewee said:
So much pain for all of us. Im sad and sorry for all of us. The wouldn't wish this mental torture on anyone.
I'm so tired of dumpin crap on my head twice per day and worrying and watching the hair fall. I'm so hopeful that daro will work and I won't have the sides of ru and dutasteride. If daro doesn't work then I'll slowly finish the balding process.

Hope it works for both of us xx

furrydome · Jan 26, 2018

Didn't expect such a negative response about hair systems. I didn't even know about the modern ones until a few months ago. Looks like results vary a bit, but the good ones look pretty good... some examples:

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