Darolutamide (odm-201), A Better Topical Than Enzalutamide?

[Sanchez1234]

@IdealForehead some more questions

1. Does your existing hair gets thicker on daro?

2. How about bald spots and some new hairs poppin?

3. Ever thought about contacting the researchers who published the next gen anti androgen artictle and share that you are testing it topical? Maybe they have information only available to them.

 

[IdealForehead]

@IdealForehead some more questions

1. Does your existing hair gets thicker on daro?

2. How about bald spots and some new hairs poppin?

3. Ever thought about contacting the researchers who published the next gen anti androgen artictle and share that you are testing it topical? Maybe they have information only available to them.

I don't think any of that is answerable in a very general sense as it depends on the individual. Darolutamide is a superpotent androgen receptor antagonist. It has the potential to castrate a person's scalp (or entire body), blocking any significant amount of testosterone or DHT from blocking to the hair follicles.

What happens after that depends on a person's body and the rest of their regimen. If you cut off one hundred NW3 men's testicles, they wouldn't all grow back to NW1's. Some might. Some might stay the same. Hair regrowth and de-minaturization depends on more often than just removing the androgens. But removing the androgens is a critical first step.

Personally, my existing hair has definitely been getting thicker, and my corners and the entire contour of my hairline are definitely filling in nicely with new hairs that continue to mature. This process started on spironolactone, continued on cypro, and is now continuing on daro. I am using minoxidil despite hating minoxidil to help facilitate this.

I still believe I am on track to getting NW1, as most people don't get significant hair regrowth in the first 2 months on any treatment unless they are having a major response, and I have definitely grown significant hair back in 2 months. According to the finasteride studies, most guys don't get a statistically significant growth effect until the 6 month point. But if I don't get to NW1, that would in my opinion represent more a failure of my own scalp's regenerative capacity than darolutamide not doing what it's supposed to. Anti-androgenism only goes so far.

I don't think those Bayer/Orion researchers would have anything useful to tell anyone. They're working on giant trials of oral dosing for prostate cancer patients, likely under strict nondisclosure agreements, and they will publish when they are due to publish. We'll get more info about safety and side effects when they do.

 

[Jonnyyy]

So basically $1 a day, $2 a day for overkill, $4 a day for twice a day overkill, doesn't seem as expensive as I thought, can you link where you bought it, or you can send me a message if you don't feel comfortable posting that link on this forum.

 

[peewee]

@IdealForehead great info, we all appreciate it.

did you ever try seti? what is your opinion of run / dutasteride and seti?

 

[IdealForehead]

@IdealForehead great info, we all appreciate it.

did you ever try seti? what is your opinion of run / dutasteride and seti?

Thanks peewee. Glad it's of interest. I find it helpful for myself too as posting helps me organize and formulate my thoughts.

I posted my opinion of seti many times in westonci's thread and the cetirizine threads. I don't want to derail this discussion or get into it again too much as this is a daro thread. So perhaps we can try to keep it to a minimum here. I will try to answer briefly.

Basically, I think setipiprant represents a poor mechanism of action by trying to block PGD2, as PGD2 is a very far downstream inflammatory mediator triggered upstream by androgen binding. In addition to PGD2, we know there are many other inflammatory mediators that androgen binding triggers as well. And so I think just blocking PGD2 alone is like plugging a single hole in a dam and leaving 100 other leaks in place. I also think the fact that you have to take it orally in mega doses is poor. I prefer topicals. Lastly, I think a similar mechanism of reducing PGD2 can likely be had by using topical 1% cetirizine/desloratadine, both of which are much safer and work more broadly to reduce multiple inflammatory mediators of hair loss, and not JUST PGD2.

Using a topical antiandrogen and/or finasteride/dutasteride with possibly topical cetirizine/desloratadine 1% should negate the need for a PGD2 blocker, as you won't have PGD2 triggered by androgen binding, and cetirizine/desloratadine will provide stabilizing effects to the skin and mast cells to even further reduce PGD2 (along with all those other broader inflammatory mediators I referred to). So I don't see the need for seti in an effective regimen.

I think the weak results we've seen from people on seti are reflective that it will not be a major game changer. But perhaps time will prove me wrong. Keep in mind even if things like topical cetirizine/desloratadine work better, pharmaceutical companies will not research them or promote them, as they can only make money off new patented medications, and cetirizine/desloratadine are now old and off patent.

Personally, I have some desloratadine in the mail and will be adding it to my formulation when it arrives to see if it gives me any extra benefits. I have personally no plans or interest in trying seti.

(I sincerely hope this won't derail the thread. Let's please try to keep thread primarily daro specific to be useful please ... I can delete this post if it turns the conversation the wrong way... Hopefully everyone can be reasonable and it won't... Thanks...)

 

[Sanchez1234]

So basically $1 a day, $2 a day for overkill, $4 a day for twice a day overkill, doesn't seem as expensive as I thought, can you link where you bought it, or you can send me a message if you don't feel comfortable posting that link on this forum.

We bought it from email: [email protected]

Contact: Gang Luo

Very good service and idealforhead tested it. Came back good.

I didnt asked for a discount but you might get a cheaper price if you ask.

 

[Jonnyyy]

We bought it from email: [email protected]

Contact: Gang Luo

Very good service and idealforhead tested it. Came back good.

I didnt asked for a discount but you might get a cheaper price if you ask.

Really appreciate it man, how's it doing for you?

 

[Sanchez1234]

Really appreciate it man, how's it doing for you?

Starting tonight

 

[Jonnyyy]

Starting tonight

You should make a thread on it, if you succeed more people will want to try it and therefore it'll be cheaper for us.

 

[IdealForehead]

I have been thinking about the dose of darolutamide a bit more in the context of my skin dryness which as we reviewed was unexpected but definitely a potential side effect of systemic androgen deprivation. I am experiencing it on areas like my face where I am not directly applying any daro. Possibly my legs, arms, and eyes are a bit dryer as well but I can't say for sure. If so, it suggests significant systemic effect from my current dose. Time will tell.

My sexual function is still likely recovering from cypro-induced castration, and should recover in the next ~2 weeks if what I've read in studies is correct. @Sanchez1234 I'm hoping perhaps if you do decide to go ahead with trying, you can observe and comment on if you notice anything on this drug sexually, as you have a cleaner starting point than me and you probably have more "normal" sexual function than me at baseline. Just please be careful of the nocebo effect and try not to overthink it. I'm sure you know all that though. I'm looking forward to hearing what you might have to say or feel. It would be perhaps helpful to get some added perspective from a fellow human guinea pig.

Other side effects from systemic androgen blockade due to darolutamide would be difficult to pick up in the short term as they are all very "silent". eg. You cannot clearly "feel" your bones becoming more brittle from androgen deprivation. I think in my case the skin dryness may be actually very helpful as it may help me titrate the dose to minimize systemic blockade over time as best I reasonably can.

Mulling this over has led me to review the data again from the safety and dose-response study that was published on darolutamide. The most important figure is this:

In this study they were measuring PSA levels (a chemical made by the prostate) to judge prostate cancer activity. A major drop in the PSA would suggest the darolutamide dose was working and the cancer was effectively "castrated". Doses listed here are the total daily dose (eg. "200 mg" = 100 mg twice daily).

Without getting into too much detail because broad interpretation of this data is difficult, it is worth noting that many men had very dramatic initial suppression of PSA even on 200 mg daily (100 mg twice daily). The reason they decided on 1200 mg daily (600 mg twice daily) is for prostate cancer, they need to be sure ALL men will respond adequately to the dose they choose, and they need the effect to last long term.

From what I have learned about prostate cancer, the highly aggressive kinds that make it into these studies tend to be FREAKISHLY sensitive to androgens. Like WAY more than our otherwise healthy non-cancerous hair follicles ever could be. These prostate cancers will also mutate their DNA to fight androgen deprivation, becoming more androgen sensitive over time. That's why in figure B for 200 mg, you can see many responded very well initially, but then the PSA levels started going back up again. So they needed higher doses to fight back against the progressive mutations, which doesn't apply in hair loss or even tranny dosing.

So if 100 mg twice daily orally is enough to at least initially castrate many cases of aggressive prostate cancers, it is probably enough also to cause very severe and almost complete androgen deprivation in a normal healthy man.

For perspective on dosing, cyproterone is dosed at 50-100 mg daily for trannies, and 300 mg daily for prostate cancer (where I believe it is usually combined with other meds since cypro alone won't stop prostate cancer). So the tranny dose is 1/6 to 1/3 of the "partial response" prostate cancer dose for this med. In the most aggressive case scenario, perhaps it can then be concluded that as low as 16-33 mg twice daily orally of darolutamide could be an effective tranny dose for many men.

I am applying 10 mg twice daily to my scalp which is not too far off that range.

As I've said many times this is mostly guesswork and any conclusions I am drawing are weak since we have so little information to work from. It's a bit frustrating. Like trying to put together a puzzle with half the pieces missing. We really need some human studies either topically for hair or orally for MTF sex change to get some better perspective on appropriate dosing ranges.

But I think it's fair to say that the amount that should be needed topically for hair while minimizing systemic side effects should be very, very, very low. I still think I'm overdosing myself with the amount I'm using, but I will continue the dose longer to see for sure. If my skin and eyes continue to dry out or my sexual function does not normalize, I will cut down to 5 mg twice a day and then see what happens.

I'm gonna try to do what I said I was going to do before and just give it some time. Stop obsessing (if I can). Stop compulsively reading journal articles and searching Pubmed for random sh*t. I have to start re-inflating my expander so I need to focus on that as well as work and some other things and just let this do what it's going to do for a while. I'll update if/when I drop the dose.

 

[Jonnyyy]

I have been thinking about the dose of darolutamide a bit more in the context of my skin dryness which as we reviewed was unexpected but definitely a potential side effect of systemic androgen deprivation. I am experiencing it on areas like my face where I am not directly applying any daro. Possibly my legs, arms, and eyes are a bit dryer as well but I can't say for sure. If so, it suggests significant systemic effect from my current dose. Time will tell.

My sexual function is still likely recovering from cypro-induced castration, and should recover in the next ~2 weeks if what I've read in studies is correct. @Sanchez1234 I'm hoping perhaps you can observe and comment on if you notice anything on this drug sexually, as you have a cleaner starting point than me and you probably have more "normal" sexual function than me at baseline. Just please be careful of the nocebo effect and try not to overthink it. I'm sure you know all that though. I'm looking forward to hearing what you have to say or feel. It will be nice to get some added perspective from a fellow human guinea pig.

Other side effects from systemic androgen blockade due to darolutamide would be difficult to pick up in the short term as they are all very "silent". eg. You cannot clearly "feel" your bones becoming more brittle from androgen deprivation. I think in my case the skin dryness may be actually very helpful as it may help me titrate the dose to minimize systemic blockade over time as best I reasonably can.

Mulling this over has led me to review the data again from the safety and dose-response study that was published on darolutamide. The most important figure is this:

View attachment 70725

In this study they were measuring PSA levels (a chemical made by the prostate) to judge prostate cancer activity. A major drop in the PSA would suggest the darolutamide dose was working and the cancer was effectively "castrated". Doses listed here are the total daily dose (eg. "200 mg" = 100 mg twice daily).

Without getting into too much detail because broad interpretation of this data is difficult, it is worth noting that many men had very dramatic initial suppression of PSA even on 200 mg daily (100 mg twice daily). The reason they decided on 1200 mg daily (600 mg twice daily) is for prostate cancer, they need to be sure ALL men will respond adequately to the dose they choose, and they need the effect to last long term.

From what I have learned about prostate cancer, the highly aggressive kinds that make it into these studies tend to be FREAKISHLY sensitive to androgens. Like WAY more than our otherwise healthy non-cancerous hair follicles ever could be. These prostate cancers will also mutate their DNA to fight androgen deprivation, becoming more androgen sensitive over time. That's why in figure B for 200 mg, you can see many responded very well initially, but then the PSA levels started going back up again. So they needed higher doses to fight back against the progressive mutations, which doesn't apply in hair loss or even tranny dosing.

So if 100 mg twice daily orally is enough to at least initially castrate many cases of aggressive prostate cancers, it is probably enough also to cause very severe and almost complete androgen deprivation in a normal healthy man.

For perspective on dosing, cyproterone is dosed at 50-100 mg daily for trannies, and 300 mg daily for prostate cancer (where I believe it is usually combined with other meds since cypro alone won't stop prostate cancer). So the tranny dose is 1/6 to 1/3 of the "partial response" prostate cancer dose for this med. In the most aggressive case scenario, perhaps it can then be concluded that as low as 16-33 mg twice daily orally of darolutamide could be an effective tranny dose for many men.

I am applying 10 mg twice daily to my scalp which is not too far off that range.

As I've said many times this is mostly guesswork and any conclusions I am drawing are weak since we have so little information to work from. It's a bit frustrating. Like trying to put together a puzzle with half the pieces missing. We really need some human studies either topically for hair or orally for MTF sex change to get some better perspective on appropriate dosing ranges.

But I think it's fair to say that the amount that should be needed topically for hair while minimizing systemic side effects should be very, very, very low. I still think I'm overdosing myself with the amount I'm using, but I will continue the dose longer to see for sure. If my skin and eyes continue to dry out or my sexual function does not normalize, I will cut down to 5 mg twice a day and then see what happens.

I'm gonna try to do what I said I was going to do before and just give it some time. Stop obsessing (if I can). Stop compulsively reading journal articles and searching Pubmed for random sh*t I have to start re-inflating my expander so I need to focus on that as well as work and some other things and just let this do what it's going to do for a while. I'll update if/when I drop the dose.

I just bought some Daro so I'll be a guinea pig with you two, 10mg a day is that .1%?

 

[mompo]

Is it possible to get darolutamide in Europe? In France more specifically?

 

[Jonnyyy]

Is it possible to get darolutamide in Europe? In France more specifically?

Email Luo, I'm sure he can ship almost anywhere around the world.

 

[Sanchez1234]

Not so good news. I put 100mg daro in 6ml eth, 10ml pg, 2ml dmso and 2 ml water. After shaking it 15 min nothing happened. Still flakes.

@IdealForehead
The darolutamide i have is quite hard and flacky. Not powdery like ru. I hear it dropping like little rocks in my bottle. How is yours?

Any suggestion i might try?

 

[IdealForehead]

Not so good news. I put 100mg daro in 6ml eth, 10ml pg, 2ml dmso and 2 ml water. After shaking it 15 min nothing happened. Still flakes.

@IdealForehead
The darolutamide i have is quite hard and flacky. Not powdery like ru. I hear it dropping like little rocks in my bottle. How is yours?

Any suggestion i might try?

That's what I said earlier in the thread. That's normal. I posted about it here:

Regarding dissolution of daro in gneral, the daro i have has come in little tiny 2-3 mm cracked chunks. It has not been a very fine powder. This is not a major problem really but a minor inconvenience. The compound is chemically correct by NMR and mass spec which is all that matters. However it is a bit stubborn to dissolve in general due to the 2-3 mm "chunks" taking time to break up in solution.

Ways i have gotten around this are to mix the daro directly into the 2 ml of dmso i am using in a glass dish and use a small mixing spoon to "smoosh" and break up the chunks so they can dissolve more rapidly. Or i have just dumped it all in together and shaken it for around an hour or two which works too. Both are a bit tedious to do every 5-10 days for the rest of my life though.

I'm gonna ask Luo if he can try to process the next batch into a finer powder. Current batch i think he has 300 grams of so he probably won't be making another batch very soon. Also this may be due to the inherent nature of daro or daro synthesis, so there is no guarantee he or anyone can make a smoother powder. Some compounds just like "clumping" a bit when you dry them out. Perhaps he can just run what he has through a shaker or blender to break it down into finer granules which would make it easier. I will ask.

Probably the best solution long term for me will be to order a small hobby paint shaker for $40-50 on ebay and use that to shake my vials. Minoxidil (despite being a very fine powder) also tends to takes a long time and a lot of shaking to maximally dissolve so that would help that as well. That just may be the nature of daro.

I'm occupied with other things right now but I'm gonna order one of these in the next week and I'll post back how well it works.

Search ebay for hobby paint shaker if you want to check one for yourself. I am all about maximum efficiency so if this works it will be very worthwhile as an extra tool to have around long term. This is just a time saving measure and not necessary in any way.

View attachment 70266
Example Ebay Link

It's a mild pain in the *** but no big deal. Just be patient and shake it a really long time or use a mixing spoon/device to crush up the little chunks. It will dissolve eventually.

Also dude, you went hard with the 0.5% like me! Well all I can say is don't apply much or apply infrequently. Or consider mixing another 20 mL of solvent in with that to reduce the strength a bit. I'm cutting my dose in half as of tonight. I'm gonna reduce what I've already premixed by 50% by mixing with an equal volume of Kirkland minoxidil to get the daro down to 0.25%. I will continue to apply twice daily as I have minoxidil in there as well.

I've been trying to intentionally ignore and mentally play down this dry skin issue. That's how I prefer to deal with side effects - ignore them until they absolutely become intolerable. Then you know for sure it was a real problem and not in your head. It has been gradually escalating for the 3 weeks since I started this stuff and it's gotten intense. I thought even earlier today I'd be able to ignore it longer. But as of today, my eyes feel raw. My skin feels almost raw as well like I'm being dried out in an oven. I felt like I stepped on a piece of glass earlier walking around on the hardwood of my house barefoot then I realized it was probably just my skin starting to fissure/tear (skin tears were reported as a common side effect in the article I posted before on severe androgen deprivation). I slathered my foot with coconut oil and it settled down. But eyes are still raw. (Bandaid solution I worked out if needed is to get some testosterone gel/cream and apply it to my eyelids - found some studies this works for dry eyes in general, and it would certainly help in theory for the dryness caused by this issue.)

I think I am more susceptible to this dryness effect than most people would be as dry skin and eyes run in my family. But cypro 100 mg and spironolactone 200 mg both had no drying effect like this at all, suggesting even the tiny topical daro dose I'm using is more systemically potent for antiandrogenism than the massive oral doses I was taking of either cypro or spironolactone.

I think the final dose I maintain on is going to be very very low. Like less than 0.1% once daily low. Hilariously this could end up costing pennies a day because so little is probably needed. The ~5.5 grams I have on hand might last me years! lol.

That's why I haven't bothered asking Luo about the texture or if he can refine it in the future. It will probably be 2019 or maybe even 2020 before I need another order, and by then there will be hundreds of retailers on Alibaba all selling it dirt cheap. Also, like I said it's just a minor inconvenience to get it to dissolve. And from what @JLF says about enza, it might just be the way these guys are.

Anyway, it will all dissolve eventually.

Get shaking. Good wrist exercise. Fun for everyone!

 

[Sanchez1234]

That's what I said earlier in the thread. That's normal. I posted about it here:



It's a mild pain in the *** but no big deal. Just be patient and shake it a really long time or use a mixing spoon/device to crush up the little chunks. It will dissolve eventually.

Also dude, you went hard with the 0.5% like me! Well all I can say is don't apply much or apply infrequently. Or consider mixing another 20 mL of solvent in with that to reduce the strength a bit. I'm cutting my dose in half as of tonight. I'm gonna reduce what I've already premixed by 50% by mixing with an equal volume of Kirkland minoxidil to get the daro down to 0.25%. I will continue to apply twice daily as I have minoxidil in there as well.

I've been trying to intentionally ignore and mentally play down this dry skin issue. That's how I prefer to deal with side effects - ignore them until they absolutely become intolerable. Then you know for sure it was a real problem and not in your head. It has been gradually escalating for the 3 weeks since I started this stuff and it's gotten intense. As of today, my eyes feel completely raw. My skin feels almost sore. I felt like I stepped on a piece of glass earlier walking around my house barefoot then I realized it was probably just my skin starting to fissure/tear (skin tears were reported as a common side effect in the article I posted before on severe androgen deprivation). I slathered my foot with coconut oil and it settled down. But eyes are still raw and certainly not getting better.

I think I am more susceptible to this dryness effect than most people would be as dry skin and eyes run in my family. But cypro 100 mg and spironolactone 200 mg both had no drying effect like this at all, suggesting even the tiny topical daro dose I'm using is more systemically potent for antiandrogenism than the massive oral doses I was taking of either cypro or spironolactone.

I think the final dose I maintain on is going to be very very low. Like less than 0.1% once daily low. Hilariously this could end up costing pennies a day because so little is probably needed. The ~5.5 grams I have on hand might last me years! lol.

That's why I haven't bothered asking Luo about the texture or if he can refine it in the future. It will probably be 2019 before I need another order, and by then there will be hundreds of retailers all selling it dirt cheap. Also, like I said it's just a minor inconvenience to get it to dissolve.

It will all dissolve eventually.

Get shaking. Good wrist exercise. Fun for everyone!

View attachment 70768

View attachment 70769

View attachment 70767

I hadnt read that part is guess. Thanks, i will shake for two hours tomorrow and maybe buy a shake machine.

Do you store it in the fridge?

Your story kind of scares me. I was planning on taking 0.5% once a day 1ml as a start. Thats 5mg per day. You take 20mg a day.

I have decided to start the first 2 weeks with 0.25%. If i can take it i will go to 0.5% and after 4 weeks i will do 2ml once a day 0.5% for my whole scalp.

 

[IdealForehead]

I hadnt read that part is guess. Thanks, i will shake for two hours tomorrow and maybe buy a shake machine.

Do you store it in the fridge?

Your story kind of scares me. I was planning on taking 0.5% once a day 1ml as a start. Thats 5mg per day. You take 20mg a day.

I have decided to start the first 2 weeks with 0.25%. If i can take it i will go to 0.5% and after 4 weeks i will do 2ml once a day 0.5% for my whole scalp.

Dude it should scare you! I've said it a hundred times in this thread. This stuff is way stronger than anything else in existence! The more I have learned and thought about it, I have tried to do my diligence by posting as much as I can find or imagine about potential risks to both a potential user and anyone who might be exposed to the chemical in a shared house from contact via beds/couches/bathrooms. I have also said that in my opinion, if you plan to use this stuff for 50 years (like I do) you better be prepared for possible unknown long term consequences that might be silent for years before they manifest (eg. bone density, fertility).

In theory if a low enough topical dose is used, it shouldn't cause that much systemic androgen blockage, and most of the major risks should be minimized. But that's only theoretical. We have no way of knowing what a "safe" dose should be until studies are done. For my own part, I knew 0.5% twice a day would be overkill but I wanted overkill. Personally I'd rather nuke it and drop down little by little based on tolerance than start low and try to go up until side effects. The advantage of the "nuke first" approach is you learn all the obvious side effects for you up front, and then you don't spend months wondering "is this stuff causing ___ or is it my imagination?"

If daro doesn't scare a person, I would question their sanity or whether they've actually been reading anything we've been talking about. Like I have said many times, this stuff is not a joke, and really quite sincerely in my opinion no one should be using it at all at this point.

I've said that I've been posting my own experiences of using it because it's something I'm choosing to subject myself to, and people might find my research and experience with it interesting or academically useful. Who knows. One day perhaps maybe someone will read all this and set up a proper research trial for hair. I'd be happy if everything we discussed could contribute in that way.

But personally at least, I do not think other people should be using it. And I really mean that. I don't know how much more I can say it. It's partly why I've considered stopping posting about my experience several times. I worry a little about a reckless user who may not take this stuff seriously despite the warnings, think it's all a joke, and do themselves or someone else harm with inappropriate use. But I also know I have to realize that I cannot be responsible for other people's decisions, and a fear someone might misuse potentially useful information does not mean discussion of that information should be completely avoided.

If someone wants to order a powerful experimental compound from a Chinese factory off the Internet that has not been approved for human use and start dousing their scalp with it, they have to also realize that they are potentially taking a big risk, which might affect them and others around them, and the responsibility for that risk is theirs alone.

 

[Jonnyyy]

Dude it should scare you! I've said it a hundred times in this thread. This stuff is way stronger than anything else in existence! The more I have learned and thought about it, I have tried to do my diligence by posting as much as I can find or imagine about potential risks to both a potential user and anyone who might be exposed to the chemical in a shared house from contact via beds/couches/bathrooms. I have also said that in my opinion, if you plan to use this stuff for 50 years (like I do) you better be prepared for possible long term consequences that might be silent for years before they manifest (eg. bone density).

In theory if a low enough topical dose is used, it shouldn't cause that much systemic androgen blockage, and most of the major risks should be minimized. But that's only theoretical. We have no way of knowing what a "safe" dose should be until studies are done. For my own part, I knew 0.5% twice a day would be overkill but I wanted overkill. Personally I'd rather nuke it and drop down little by little based on tolerance than start low and try to go up until side effects. The advantage of the "nuke first" approach is you learn all the obvious side effects for you up front, and then you don't spend months wondering "is this stuff causing ___ or is it my imagination?"

If daro doesn't scare a person, I would question their sanity or whether they've actually been reading anything we've been talking about. Like I have said many times, this stuff is not a joke, and really quite sincerely in my opinion no one should be using it at all at this point.

I've said that I've been posting my own experiences of using it because it's something I'm choosing to subject myself to, and people might find my research and experience with it interesting or academically useful. Who knows. One day perhaps maybe someone will read all this and set up a proper research trial for hair. I'd be happy if everything we discussed could contribute in that way.

But personally at least, I do not think other people should be using it. And I really mean that. I don't know how much more I can say it. It's partly why I've considered stopping posting about my experience several times. I worry a little about a reckless user who may not take this stuff seriously despite the warnings, think it's all a joke, and do themselves or someone else harm with inappropriate use. But I also know I have to realize that I cannot be responsible for other people's decisions, and a fear someone might misuse potentially useful information does not mean discussion of that information should be completely avoided.

If someone wants to order a powerful experimental compound from a Chinese factory off the Internet that has not been approved for human use and start dousing their scalp with it, they have to also realize that they are potentially taking a big risk, which might affect them and others around them, and the responsibility for that risk is theirs alone.

This stuff might be deadly, but for a lot of us hairloss is already deadly. I'd take the risk honestly as I'm a dead man walking already.

 

[whatevr]

The reason we're reading these threads is not because we're reckless, careless, adrenaline-junkies and daredevils, but rather because we tried Propecia, Minoxidil, RU58841, and who knows what else, and due to it not working, or side effects, or whatever reason, we are left with this as a last resort.

If I was happily maintaining on Propecia like most "average" hair loss people I wouldn't really be reading this thread, but I started balding at 19. Propecia didn't do sh*t for me.

No rest for the wicked.

 

[johnny7]

IdealForehead, thank you for your effort and everything!

• I have read all your posts about Darolutamide and I have two questions regarding its strength. Do you think it could reverse hairloss in a similar way that tranny drugs do? For example a person using it could go from nw4 or even 5 back to nw2 or 1.
  
• And what effects do you think it would have if you would cycle it. I.e. 4 weeks on 2 off and then 2 weeks on 1 off and so forth.

I hope it works for you and you don't get any more sides.