DHT increases with age?
- Thread starter cha11enge
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If thats the case, propecia should be able to halt the balding process if it can initially surpress the amount of DHT present at that point of time and the effects should not deteriorate over the years. In fact it should get better since DHT decreases over the years.
However, people mentioned that the effects of propecia seems to disappear the longer they take propecia. Why is this so?
However, people mentioned that the effects of propecia seems to disappear the longer they take propecia. Why is this so?
FreeloaderUK
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the simple truth is nobody knows.
for a start propecia doesnt work all the time. its obvious that it doesnt competely eliminate DHT- or that DHT isnt the only cause of male pattern baldness. propecia isnt proven to work on frontal hair loss & the temples-(according to the website- tho im still awaiting what ppl on here know)- if Propecia is supposed to take care of DHT why is the vertex of the hair different to the front?
most importantly & I guess this may be key for the cure of baldness is this:
Why is the hair on the side of your head near your ears & neck genetically immune to DHT? people with NW7 have thick hair around the sides but nothing on top. strange isnt it?
for a start propecia doesnt work all the time. its obvious that it doesnt competely eliminate DHT- or that DHT isnt the only cause of male pattern baldness. propecia isnt proven to work on frontal hair loss & the temples-(according to the website- tho im still awaiting what ppl on here know)- if Propecia is supposed to take care of DHT why is the vertex of the hair different to the front?
most importantly & I guess this may be key for the cure of baldness is this:
Why is the hair on the side of your head near your ears & neck genetically immune to DHT? people with NW7 have thick hair around the sides but nothing on top. strange isnt it?
yes but no
yes:
at a age of 17 will get contructed by 5 alpha and year by year it will get aggressive.
no:
after your completion of your maturity to your body like beards and body hair ones grown in full length it will loosen its strength by day by day i.e from 17 years age to 24~30 it will stop or produce lower than 20~30%.
yes:
at a age of 17 will get contructed by 5 alpha and year by year it will get aggressive.
no:
after your completion of your maturity to your body like beards and body hair ones grown in full length it will loosen its strength by day by day i.e from 17 years age to 24~30 it will stop or produce lower than 20~30%.
optimus prime
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Bump
I think we need to get to the bottom of this. DHT is quite an important factor for hair loss and we should make sure we know 100% if it raises with age.
I think we need to get to the bottom of this. DHT is quite an important factor for hair loss and we should make sure we know 100% if it raises with age.
Everything I've ever read on Androgenetic Alopecia makes it a very clear point that despite the fact that balding obviously increases with age, DHT levels decrease with age. Hence, the "androgen sensitivity" concept. If this is actually false, it'd be helpful to know. Also, "estrogen dominance" is often discussed with aging men.
slurms mackenzie
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Rabid said:
Progesterone falls which is an 5 a reductase inhibitor meaning that the T / DHT Ratios shift.
So even though there's less T i don't think it's clear if there's more DHT.
I'm sure i've read a study stating DHT levels go up on these very forums I'll see if i can find it.
<<edit nah i can't>>
http://www.oasisadvancedwellness.com/le ... state.html
This is an article on progesterone, for all i know it could be bollocks, but the author does at least seem to have cited some studies.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20534765
Table 1 on page 3 of the linked article shows differences of young men (avg age 26) vs old men (avg age 66) with a sample size of about 50 in each group. Their research indicates that younger man cohort has higher DHT than older man cohort.
Younger vs Older
Total T (ng/dl) 581.7 vs 335.4
Free T (pg/ml) 138.8 vs 53.7
Total E2 (pg/ml) 20.8 vs 26.0
Free E2 (pg/ml) 0.5 vs 0.5
Total DHT (ng/dl) 54.0 vs 28.1
Free DHT (pg/ml) 6.0 vs 1.9
We're only focused on DHT because there's a clear link to Androgenetic Alopecia based on a lot of different studies by a lot of different scientists, and DHT is something we can actually do something about now. However, present medical science is pretty primitive in the grand scheme of things.
One day, with more advanced science, we might not be focused on DHT at all but on another part of the process between T/DHT to androgen receptors to DNA to biological expression and/or stem cells and progenitor cells. In general, I believe the root of our issue - no pun intended - is in our genes, not in DHT (gene DKK-1, for instance). My point being that there's more than one ball to keep your eye on in this game.
IMO, if you're only keeping your eye on DHT, then you're missing out on the wider game. That's not an argument against using finasteride or any other treatment to lower DHT. From a practical standpoint, got to use what works now if you're interested in taking action, not waiting for what's far off in the future. Of course, the same things don't work for all people but the reason they don't probably has more to do with our individual genetic responses to DHT or that DHT is converted by something other than a 5-AR or something else. (To be clear, it appears from the research that 5-AR Type 2 is responsible for most T to DHT conversion in most people but that may not be the end of the story.)
Table 1 on page 3 of the linked article shows differences of young men (avg age 26) vs old men (avg age 66) with a sample size of about 50 in each group. Their research indicates that younger man cohort has higher DHT than older man cohort.
Younger vs Older
Total T (ng/dl) 581.7 vs 335.4
Free T (pg/ml) 138.8 vs 53.7
Total E2 (pg/ml) 20.8 vs 26.0
Free E2 (pg/ml) 0.5 vs 0.5
Total DHT (ng/dl) 54.0 vs 28.1
Free DHT (pg/ml) 6.0 vs 1.9
We're only focused on DHT because there's a clear link to Androgenetic Alopecia based on a lot of different studies by a lot of different scientists, and DHT is something we can actually do something about now. However, present medical science is pretty primitive in the grand scheme of things.
One day, with more advanced science, we might not be focused on DHT at all but on another part of the process between T/DHT to androgen receptors to DNA to biological expression and/or stem cells and progenitor cells. In general, I believe the root of our issue - no pun intended - is in our genes, not in DHT (gene DKK-1, for instance). My point being that there's more than one ball to keep your eye on in this game.
IMO, if you're only keeping your eye on DHT, then you're missing out on the wider game. That's not an argument against using finasteride or any other treatment to lower DHT. From a practical standpoint, got to use what works now if you're interested in taking action, not waiting for what's far off in the future. Of course, the same things don't work for all people but the reason they don't probably has more to do with our individual genetic responses to DHT or that DHT is converted by something other than a 5-AR or something else. (To be clear, it appears from the research that 5-AR Type 2 is responsible for most T to DHT conversion in most people but that may not be the end of the story.)
majorsixth
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Had this very argument about dht increasing with age my self with the moderator of Hair loss Help forum the other week. I also read that it was produced in higher levels within the prostate and that was associated with the increase in it's size as men age hence BPH
However the moderated did produce a study that was concerned with the effects of injected testosterone, in young and older men. The base line DHT of all the participants was taken first and expressed graphically and it clearly showed that the older mans dht to be lower, around half that of the younger counter part. Although the dht increased within the older and younger men following the testosterone injections the younger men still had higher levels.
I do like to debate like most people do but i could not argue with this scientific study and had to admit the the moderator was right.
However the moderated did produce a study that was concerned with the effects of injected testosterone, in young and older men. The base line DHT of all the participants was taken first and expressed graphically and it clearly showed that the older mans dht to be lower, around half that of the younger counter part. Although the dht increased within the older and younger men following the testosterone injections the younger men still had higher levels.
I do like to debate like most people do but i could not argue with this scientific study and had to admit the the moderator was right.
mothernature
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testosterone levels peak at 30-45, then decrease. I guess DHT would be the same. Compare a 40 year old with a 25 year old and you will likely see a difference.
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FreeloaderUK said:
Seeing as the thread has being bumped . . . .
The reason they, Merck, say Propecia doesn't work for frontal or the temples is because the people in the case study were Norwood 3's and beyond, wherever DHT affects the hair, Finasteride can help.