Diffuse balding is not male pattern baldness
- Thread starter returnoftheshedi
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I am on finasteride for more than two years and use spironolactone and nizoral... Shedding of hair has never stopped (200+ a day). Thinning predominantly on top and crown. Can't part my hair properly anymore, so i comb it backward. I have been optimistic from time to time, but there is no denial that i am gradually losing ground. This sucks.
I think there is a case to answer here - diffuse thinning as distinct from male pattern baldness, or, if you like, female pattern balding in males. Aside from a little standard temple recession (which minoxidil has helped) I am diffusing into a Ludwig - the kind of hair you see in portraits of Medieval males who would not or could not shave their heads. Unfortunately that doesn't make me a Renaissance man, just a 21st century freak.
I would go for a separate thread/forum.
I would go for a separate thread/forum.
Aplunk1
Senior Member
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jeffsss said:
Jeffsss, you haven't lose any Norwood scale-age.
What Norwood are you?
I'm going to assume that you're probably in the Norwood 1-2 category... Sure, you may have lost some density, but I don't see you going to a Norwood 2.5-3+ in the next decade if you stay on Propecia.
returnoftheshedi
Established Member
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damn. forget a forum, can we even have a single thread where someone DOESNT talk about Norwood.
Johnny24601
Experienced Member
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re:
From what I understand the argument that is being made is that the big three has not haulted your diffuse thinning and therefore diffuse thinning is not male pattern baldness. Just totally insane! Between the countless posts on this site to the disclaimers and lab tests, it is stessed that these treatments often MAY totally hault your hairloss, but in most cases they simply improve the look of your hair and slow down the balding process. It is also clear that for a small percentage these products simply do not work. Perhaps you would be slick bald by now if you had not used these treatments or perhaps you are in the minority who has seen no improvement. Without photographs no one knows for sure as our personel opinion always tends to be negative.
male pattern baldness has been part of the gene pool for a long time, it is short sighted to think that it will just disappear for everyone who takes a little pill each morning and dumping some crap on your head twice a day. You are preprgrammed to lose your hair and it is actually a natural thing that is not easy to stop. It is constantly stressed that these products are simply a tool to improve your hair and rarely a 100% solution.
I for have been on finasteride for about 2 years and am a diffuse thinner and based on photos I have seen maybe a slight decline but feel like I would be in awful shape if I had not started finasteride.
The actions of male pattern baldness are identical no matter if you receed or are diffuse. Many men start slowly receeding in the front at say 30, later they start to thin everywhere and by the time they hit their 60s they are slick bald.
From what I understand the argument that is being made is that the big three has not haulted your diffuse thinning and therefore diffuse thinning is not male pattern baldness. Just totally insane! Between the countless posts on this site to the disclaimers and lab tests, it is stessed that these treatments often MAY totally hault your hairloss, but in most cases they simply improve the look of your hair and slow down the balding process. It is also clear that for a small percentage these products simply do not work. Perhaps you would be slick bald by now if you had not used these treatments or perhaps you are in the minority who has seen no improvement. Without photographs no one knows for sure as our personel opinion always tends to be negative.
male pattern baldness has been part of the gene pool for a long time, it is short sighted to think that it will just disappear for everyone who takes a little pill each morning and dumping some crap on your head twice a day. You are preprgrammed to lose your hair and it is actually a natural thing that is not easy to stop. It is constantly stressed that these products are simply a tool to improve your hair and rarely a 100% solution.
I for have been on finasteride for about 2 years and am a diffuse thinner and based on photos I have seen maybe a slight decline but feel like I would be in awful shape if I had not started finasteride.
The actions of male pattern baldness are identical no matter if you receed or are diffuse. Many men start slowly receeding in the front at say 30, later they start to thin everywhere and by the time they hit their 60s they are slick bald.
returnoftheshedi
Established Member
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Re: re:
No, its really not male pattern baldness, which is defined by the Norwood Scale. I am a diffuse thinner and, if anything, I should be classified as female pattern loss. Diffuse thinners are in the minority and there has been no evidence that Propecia or Rogaine was tested on diffuse thinners. In fact, take a look at a Rogaine box and you will see descriptions and pictures of male pattern baldness.
Anyone on this board can tell you how ignorant dermatoligists are regarding hairloss. So who does that leave us with? People like you who make blank assertions without any medical evidence? Pharmaceutical companies who present figures but not specific pictures of the people who were tested??
There is no cure for baldness. Right? So why would you assume to know ANYTHING about what is and is not effective. We have anecdotal evidence and two fda approved drugs. Thats it.
The reason I posted was to draw attention to the fact that, while male pattern baldness is still somewhat of a mystery (i.e, there is no cure), diffuse thinning is further behind. Where are the studies about diffuse loss? The tests?
I dont have any answers but I think it would be productive to have a seperate forum on diffuse loss. Lets start talking about our experiences. Maybe we can accomplish something. As this thread has proved, most of us diffuse thinners aren't fairing very well on the big 3.
Johnny24601 said:
No, its really not male pattern baldness, which is defined by the Norwood Scale. I am a diffuse thinner and, if anything, I should be classified as female pattern loss. Diffuse thinners are in the minority and there has been no evidence that Propecia or Rogaine was tested on diffuse thinners. In fact, take a look at a Rogaine box and you will see descriptions and pictures of male pattern baldness.
Anyone on this board can tell you how ignorant dermatoligists are regarding hairloss. So who does that leave us with? People like you who make blank assertions without any medical evidence? Pharmaceutical companies who present figures but not specific pictures of the people who were tested??
There is no cure for baldness. Right? So why would you assume to know ANYTHING about what is and is not effective. We have anecdotal evidence and two fda approved drugs. Thats it.
The reason I posted was to draw attention to the fact that, while male pattern baldness is still somewhat of a mystery (i.e, there is no cure), diffuse thinning is further behind. Where are the studies about diffuse loss? The tests?
I dont have any answers but I think it would be productive to have a seperate forum on diffuse loss. Lets start talking about our experiences. Maybe we can accomplish something. As this thread has proved, most of us diffuse thinners aren't fairing very well on the big 3.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: re:
male pattern baldness is not defined by the Norwood scale. The Norwood scale shows the ten or so MOST common hair loss pattern progress lines.
returnoftheshedi said:
male pattern baldness is not defined by the Norwood scale. The Norwood scale shows the ten or so MOST common hair loss pattern progress lines.
returnoftheshedi
Established Member
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Re: re:
i'm not talking about the dictionary definition. The literal meaning of male "pattern" baldness does not apply to diffuse thinners.
btw dude, i think at 22 years old, you should sit back and stop trying to sound like an expert on diffuse thinning. first, there are no experts on diffuse loss. thats my whole point. second, you are probably where i was at 5 or 6 years ago. your hair looks pretty good but at some point u noticed it was getting thinner. now your taking meds and think that because your not showing more visible loss, that the meds are working. am i close? well guess what....the meds may or may not be working to an extent. but i can tell you from over 6 years of experience on the big 3 that diffuse thinning is very very gradual, but it doesnt stop.
i'm not trying to discourage you, but if you think defending the meds is gonna make your hairloss stop....nice try. everyone here has a vested interest in saving their hair. you coming on here and trying to debate me is pointless. im trying to spark a productive discussion, not bullshit about insignificant details.
you want to end this debate, show me some studies on the effectiveness of the big 3 on diffuse loss.
JayMan said:
i'm not talking about the dictionary definition. The literal meaning of male "pattern" baldness does not apply to diffuse thinners.
btw dude, i think at 22 years old, you should sit back and stop trying to sound like an expert on diffuse thinning. first, there are no experts on diffuse loss. thats my whole point. second, you are probably where i was at 5 or 6 years ago. your hair looks pretty good but at some point u noticed it was getting thinner. now your taking meds and think that because your not showing more visible loss, that the meds are working. am i close? well guess what....the meds may or may not be working to an extent. but i can tell you from over 6 years of experience on the big 3 that diffuse thinning is very very gradual, but it doesnt stop.
i'm not trying to discourage you, but if you think defending the meds is gonna make your hairloss stop....nice try. everyone here has a vested interest in saving their hair. you coming on here and trying to debate me is pointless. im trying to spark a productive discussion, not bullshit about insignificant details.
you want to end this debate, show me some studies on the effectiveness of the big 3 on diffuse loss.
G
Guest
Guest
actually return, you're totally wrong.
i'm showing much more visible loss since i started on the meds in july, especially in my balding areas. i'm shedding a lot of hair. i shed very little before being on the meds. my hair loss has been progressing since i was 16 believe it or not. So 6 years. My hairdresser noticed my thinning 6 years ago and I've waited till now to do something about it. So I got on the drugs in july, 3 months ago. and i think that's a really great sign because i'm shedding a ton of hair which means that i will probably be a good responder to the dutasteride. i could be wrong but i doubt it.
your whole argument about me not being able to debate you if i don't have studies backing me up on this is ridiculous. there haven't beena ny studies done with strictly diffuse thinners because what would the point be? it's just plain old male pattern baldness.
i guarantee you that there were more than a few diffuse thinners included in the propecia and avodart studies.
i don't think defending the meds will make my hair loss stop. i think that taking them will make it stop, and i defend them so that other people will take them.
i'm showing much more visible loss since i started on the meds in july, especially in my balding areas. i'm shedding a lot of hair. i shed very little before being on the meds. my hair loss has been progressing since i was 16 believe it or not. So 6 years. My hairdresser noticed my thinning 6 years ago and I've waited till now to do something about it. So I got on the drugs in july, 3 months ago. and i think that's a really great sign because i'm shedding a ton of hair which means that i will probably be a good responder to the dutasteride. i could be wrong but i doubt it.
your whole argument about me not being able to debate you if i don't have studies backing me up on this is ridiculous. there haven't beena ny studies done with strictly diffuse thinners because what would the point be? it's just plain old male pattern baldness.
i guarantee you that there were more than a few diffuse thinners included in the propecia and avodart studies.
i don't think defending the meds will make my hair loss stop. i think that taking them will make it stop, and i defend them so that other people will take them.
jimmystanley
Experienced Member
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any diffusers try hydrocortisone? I'm using it right now...i also found it in a shampoo form!!! 
returnoftheshedi
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JayMan said:
so your expertise comes from being on meds for 3 months?!!? my bad. go ahead and school me on the effectiveness of the big 3 on diffuse thinners. what would i know? i've only been taking the big 3 for over 6 years and dutasteride for over a year; along with monitoring these boards since the first day i noticed fallout. i must be wrong. these drugs are effective and i actually have a full head of thick hair.
also, thats great that you assume propecia and rogaine were tested on diffuse thinners. now i can rest assured that they work.
i am not an expert on this and neither are you. if studies exist on diffuse thinners, lets see them. if not, stop trying to tell me that the world is flat.
if no studies exist, lets set up a seperate forum so all the diffuse thinners can discuss what else we might have in common. perhaps that will lead to discovering the cause. maybe it wont, but it is worth a shot.
returnoftheshedi
Established Member
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JayMan said:
was that supposed to be an answer to my question of whether studies have been done to show the effectiveness of the big 3 on diffuse thinners?
no sh*t there is a different classification for diffuse thinners. we obviously don't fit within the norwood scale since we are clearly balding but have a perfect hairline and full coverage (albeit thinning).
instead of trying to defend yourself with straw men, why dont you actually think about what i am saying here.
it might make you feel good to think that propecia and rogaine were tested on diffuse thinners (who are an extreme minority), but without proof it is pure speculation.
return,
let me add this.
when i started balding, except the crown everywhere else it started as diffuse hairloss.
I didn't start finasteride/dutasteride until I went slick bald with few fuzzy hairs on the top. Guess what after being on finasteride/dutasteride for the last two years, those peach fuzz still remain and the sides have thickened. Even my widows peak has moved forward.
I seriously believe that if I had started dutasteride/finasteride at my first sign of male pattern baldness (it was diffus hair loss in the beginning for me), I would never have gone to nw6.
Have you gone slick bald after being on finasteride/dutasteride? The answer is likely to be no for eveyone.
let me add this.
when i started balding, except the crown everywhere else it started as diffuse hairloss.
I didn't start finasteride/dutasteride until I went slick bald with few fuzzy hairs on the top. Guess what after being on finasteride/dutasteride for the last two years, those peach fuzz still remain and the sides have thickened. Even my widows peak has moved forward.
I seriously believe that if I had started dutasteride/finasteride at my first sign of male pattern baldness (it was diffus hair loss in the beginning for me), I would never have gone to nw6.
Have you gone slick bald after being on finasteride/dutasteride? The answer is likely to be no for eveyone.
Nathaniel
Experienced Member
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Return,
What if the big 3 has slowed down your hairloss progress? Isn't what these treatments most commonly do? (At least for the most part?) I don't believe we have found the cure yet, but the big 3 should at least buy you some time. Like I said earlier and I believe my post was misunderstood, people expect way too much out of these treatments. If you can assure yourself that you would have the exact same loss WITHOUT the big 3 at this point with comparison to using the big 3, then more power to you bro.
What if the big 3 has slowed down your hairloss progress? Isn't what these treatments most commonly do? (At least for the most part?) I don't believe we have found the cure yet, but the big 3 should at least buy you some time. Like I said earlier and I believe my post was misunderstood, people expect way too much out of these treatments. If you can assure yourself that you would have the exact same loss WITHOUT the big 3 at this point with comparison to using the big 3, then more power to you bro.
returnoftheshedi
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techprof said:
you misunderstood the whole point of this thread. if i didnt think that the big 3 and dutasteride might be helping, i wouldnt have spent the thousands of dollars that i have on treatments for the past 6 years. its very possibel the drugs have slowed down my loss. however, its also very possible that they have done absolutely nothing. as we all know, you dont become bald over night. furthermore, the speed of going bald varies. so its not like i can say with assurance that (minus the meds) i would be slick bald. who knows?
my point was that there are no studies regarding the effectiveness of these treatments on diffuse thinners. considering how different the balding process is for people with male pattern baldness and people with diffuse loss, wouldn't it seem possible that diffusers don't respond the same? i think so. if i'm wrong then fantastic, ill swallow that proscar with a kool aid grin. but at this point, i feel there is no evidence to show that i havent just been wasting my money.
What's the argument here? This guy thinks diffuse thinning is not male pattern baldness because treatments that are far from 100% effective might not have worked on him? And he demands hard evidence from everyone else without giving any of his own? And he wants his own forum for diffuse thinning, where he would tell everyone else that no treatments will work because it's not male pattern baldness? Awesome!