Doctors for Medical Liability Reform

[Odelay]

Your opinion, even if it is misguided.

 

[GourmetStyleWellness]

How can an opinion be misguided?

My opinion is formed based upon living proof via real life experiences that I myself and every one of my family members have had.

People have posted here over and over their horrible experiences with doctors, and their utter disgust with the arrogance and lack of education doctors have shown them. I guess they're all misguided too?

In this case, peoples opinions cannot be "wrong". Sorry. They've lived it and breathed it over and over.

Its this continuing bullshit arrogance that doctors have that spawned that web site. Somehow twisting reality to actually blame *patients* for lawsuits brought about by doctors malpractice. Isn't that an incredibly creative and backwards way to look at it?

Its like the little kid blaming his mom for catching him with his hand in the cookie jar.

"Its because you put this cookie jar so high up that I have to sneak there and get it, and end up getting caugh mommy! If you would just put it on the floor I could be in and out of here in no time and Id never get caught. Its your fault that I keep getting in trouble!"

Next time a drunk driver slams into your car and kills your child, jump on top of the car and declare to everyone that you would be contributing to the income of greedy lawyers and overabundance of lawsuits to sue the guy who hit you. Declare to everyone that the drunk driver is NOT at fault and you wont be burdening the system with another lawsuit. Then walk away with your dead child in your arms. Then pay all your medical bills for your broken ribs and legs on your own, out of your own pocket, for the next 30 years. God forbid the drunk driver would have to pay for his mistake that cost your loved one their life!

Apparently somewhere along the way it became more unethical to punish someone for f*****g up, than to let them harm someone and get away with it.

That's the logic you're expecting us to buy, and it's *** Backwards.

gourmetstylewellness.com

 

[GourmetStyleWellness]

I encourage all of you to review 5 posts I found in a matter of 20 seconds by doing a simple search on these forums. Tell me our opinions are misguided.... Tell me people are happy with their doctors.

http://www.gourmetstylewellness.com/discussions ... 8951#48951
"On Monday, Nov 17th, I went to see Dr. Vera Price, the renowned dermatologist/hair expert. I waited 4 months to see her, and heard from many people that she had no bedside manners. Well folks, its all true. I was completely appalled at her demeanor towards me. She was VERY patronizing, rude, would interrupt me mid question, would treat my questions as if they were an utter pain in the butt (she had the nerve to tell the nurse that my questions were keeping her, were holding her back). The whole time she would talk to my dad and showed hardly any interest in hearing MY questions and concerns."

http://www.gourmetstylewellness.com/discussions ... =2754#2754
About two years ago I noticed pacthy hair loss on the sides of my head. Its gotten pretty bad now. What really irks me is MY doctor says theres nothing wrong. and that its just normal in teens!!! He precended to tell my mother if it was alopicia there waas nothing they could do! Im glad i found this fourm. I mean its embarassing when all the school kids call ya baldie and other rude names. its embarsing

http://www.gourmetstylewellness.com/discussions ... 1668#61668
Ok "hair specialist". First of all, "Probably" is real professional. Oh it's probaby chronic Telogen Effluvium. Ok as*shole what the F*ck is causing it then,and how do I get rid of it. Sorry Probably just does not do, these so called hair specialists can eat a d*ck.

http://www.gourmetstylewellness.com/discussions ... 1334#61334
(THIS ONE CRACKS ME UP. male pattern baldness. DIAGNOSIS? LACK OF VITAMINS. TREATMENT? ANTIBIOTICS!) :wink: I was 99% sure that I was suffering from male pattern baldness, bt the doctor said that my main problem was lack of some vitamins, since she told me that my hairs not thinning, its falling out, and that I have a very bad scalp condition that worsens the problem, So she prebscribed me propecia, a cortison, vitamin E, vitamin B2, penicillin (antibiotic),

http://www.gourmetstylewellness.com/discussions ... 3738#13738
Yeah, most doctors are so uneducated nowadays, it's more scary than funny. My doctor told me to save the money that I would spend on Propecia for 3 straight years, then get a hair transplant by then because I'd already gone bald. Inside I was saying to myself "Burn in hell a**h**! "

I think that pretty much says it all.

gourmetstylewellness.com

 

[blue]

i must throw my 2 cents in and say that i wished more doctors worked to save people not for the money...two of my relatives died from malpractice that makes me kinda bias on docs.Although i know you guys are talkin about hair docs i had to make my point heard

 

[Guest]

Since the overwhealming majority of LAWMAKERS are ah, lawyers, what chance do you think we have of getting laws that REALLY cut into attorney income??

Think so?

What you don't seem to get is that there are different types of lawyers, those that actually care and those that could give a damn as long as they get paid. Many of the Senators are people who have to care about the people or else they will be out of a job, that is what makes this system work at the end of the day the Senators need the people. A bill similar to this was already passed in the House, which also supports a large number of lawyers. So yes, there is a very good chance that laws of this nature will get passed because once the politicians see this is a cause that many people that are voting them into office support they will jump on the bandwagon.

I would respectfully disagree with your point that a bill that costs lawyers their largesse has any chance of passing in Congress.


:freaked2:

 

[Guest]

gourmetstylewellness.com-

Sorry to burst your bubble but, it ain't gonna happen.

:lol:

 

[blue]

Maybe if doctors cared more and werent so lazy there would be a cure for hairloss by now.my opinion is that there are too many lazy people in this world....not just in the medical field but at every job place in the world there are just to many lazy people.Just think if everyone in the world including myself did their own job to their max potential,there would be no problems.Nowadays people are to busy trying hard to get out of work instead of just doing their job.It seems as though everywhere i go one person is doing work...the other 5 are just watchin.Sometimes i cant help but laugh.

 

[Yardbird]

There are some good points here about why physicians need to be held accountable, and high profile, high dollar cases really do keep doctors on their toes. I'll wager that for every doctor who contemplates leaving the medical field or for every medical student who drops out due to fear of lawsuits, there's a doctor waking up in cold sweats wondering if he covered all the bases with one of his patients that day. On the other hand, certainly some doctors are going to be lethargic about the issue...

However, the impact of frivolous lawsuits cannot be overlooked. Perhaps the real issue is the accountability of lawyers. Shouldn't lawyers be penalized for taking cases which turn out to be blatantly frivolous? It seems to me that cases which are thrown out should count against the lawyer in some measureable and identifiable way (unless of course the lawyer is compelled by the legal system to take the case).
A public record of cases which are thrown out, and some sort of fine....
That's what we need. We can always guess that there will be stupid people who will file stupid lawsuits just to see if they can get rich. We must expect lawyers to be above such behavior, so holding them accountable in this way might make them think twice before taking a case involving someone who intentionally swallowed a tube of Preperation H.

 

[Hairless Potter]

The medical system is the only service based profession I have ever encountered where the customer comes last. You are forced to wait ridiculous amounts of time even if symptoms are *current*... you are forced to get unsatisfactory treatment and accept it because doctors still think they know everything.... you are forced to get service many times from a provider (doctor) who gives you an arrogant attitude (something a mechanic who deals with your car's health would get fired for) .... you are refused diagnostic tests that *YOU* want and will pay for because the all knowing God-complex doctor says you don't need the tests. The customer comes *last* in the medical system time and time again.

Institute checks and balances in the medical system. Accountability. Especially for private practice doctors. If you have a panel of physicians "checking off" everything and everyone who passes through their doors, they can not only ward off mistakes via bad judgment from one doctor, but they can review whether all necessary tests were done, and REDUCE the incidence of errors. They will simultaneously INCREASE customer satisfaction by simply showing that they care. You don't know how many people feel motivated to sue simply because of the Arrogance factor. If someone feels like they have a problem and the doctor is virtually ignoring it or blowing them off, you can be assured if something goes wrong in the end, they're going to want to sue. Simply showing you care can offset that immensely. Feeling like the doctor is "There with you" trying his hardest to find the answer and get you well again, is a huge factor that is completely missing in the medical system, except for a few doctors. Additionally they will have 10 guys responsible for 1 guy's decisions, and that will undoubtedly increase their chance of winning in court. This to me is the solution.

When I run into the opposite of this on a regular basis, you can imagine the reason I personally feel there are a lot of lawsuits.

gourmetstylewellness.com

Interesting, but how will this be funded? Also, I have been to plenty of mechanics, who have been less than honest with me. I and many others agree with your view on physician empathy preventing lawsuits and increasing patient care and satisfaction. These ideals are now a staple of our medical training.

 

[Hairless Potter]

Maybe if doctors cared more and werent so lazy there would be a cure for hairloss by now.my opinion is that there are too many lazy people in this world....not just in the medical field but at every job place in the world there are just to many lazy people.Just think if everyone in the world including myself did their own job to their max potential,there would be no problems.Nowadays people are to busy trying hard to get out of work instead of just doing their job.It seems as though everywhere i go one person is doing work...the other 5 are just watchin.Sometimes i cant help but laugh.

Do you honestly believe "lazy" individuals could become physicians. Until last year the average medical resident put in over 100 hours per week, with a 36 hour shift every 3 to 4 days. Only last year has legislation been instituted limiting resident's work hours to a max of 80 per week. Hours spent on "home call", which is coming into the hospital for calls are not included in these restrictions. Many programs have yet to comply with these restrictions. How many hours a week do you work? The average resident makes only 36,000 to 40,000 per year, and incures an avg debt between 200,000 and 300,000 dollars for med school alone. Many programs have yet to comply with these restrictions.

 

[Hairless Potter]

I encourage all of you to review 5 posts I found in a matter of 20 seconds by doing a simple search on these forums. Tell me our opinions are misguided.... Tell me people are happy with their doctors.
gourmetstylewellness.com

gourmetstylewellness.com, these examples all deal with hairloss, I had a similar experience with my derm, not knowing about propecia sheds. Doctors are not perfect by virtue of the fact that they are human. I understand you are frustrated, but to say every doctor is bad, because you and others had bad experiences with some physicians is a poor generalization. It is offensive to me and thousands of other hardworking, caring, intelligent members of the medical community.

 

[Axon]

Aren't your residency years just basically a paid internship? Yes, debt sucks, but it's not much different for anyone with an advanced degree. M.D.s consistently rank #1 in salary earnings year after year after year, so I don't think you can really portray them as starving artists or the like.

I'd love to say work young residents less, but then hospitals would be stretched even thinner. There just aren't enough Docs who are willing to put up with the hospital environment when they can open their own private practice, make ***-loads of money, and keep hours that would make a banker blush.

It’s not different than Tort Reform in that regard. In general, Americans, for all the media coverage it warrants, have little understanding of the actual workings of our court system. You do NOT want to put any sort of limitation on Due Process. Limiting it sounds like a good idea, but you’d be crying foul if you ever needed the courts but couldn’t use them because you didn’t meet whatever circumstances to establish a case. As I’ve stated, attorneys already have a limitation placed on them – they can be thrown in jail or disbarred if their lawsuits proves to be nothing more than slander – but that particular rule needs to be initiated by opposing counsel and attorneys are hesitant to do that to each other. Law is a surprisingly small world; even with all the stories of there being millions of attorneys, there just aren’t that many in reality. You don’t want that stigma following you around.

Same thing with judges – they’re VERY hesitant to sign off on a controversial precedent. You don’t want your rulings overturned, nor do you want the mantle of what is considered to be a poor decision on your shoulders.

 

[Hairless Potter]

Aren't your residency years just basically a paid internship? Yes, debt sucks, but it's not much different for anyone with an advanced degree. M.D.s consistently rank #1 in salary earnings year after year after year, so I don't think you can really portray them as starving artists or the like.

I'd love to say work young residents less, but then hospitals would be stretched even thinner. There just aren't enough Docs who are willing to put up with the hospital environment when they can open their own private practice, make ***-loads of money, and keep hours that would make a banker blush.

Look, I was not complaining about residency salary/hours just trying to demonstrate the work ethic involved. By the way, most Doctor's in private pratice are attendings at hospitals, rounding on their patients in addition to clinic hours. Keep in mind rich doctors still pay practice overhead, malpractice which is ballooning, and student loans.

 

[Axon]

No different for lawyers, and they still turn a profit. I know attorneys in their 40's still paying education loans.

 

[GourmetStyleWellness]

However, the impact of frivolous lawsuits cannot be overlooked.

I don't think anyone who takes my viewpoint on this issue thinks that frivolous lawsuits should be overlooked, so thats not too much of an issue. Frivolous lawsuits are a problem with every single profession and environment on this earth, not just medical related ones.

I have just never seen a certain profession try to blame the victims for suing them too much. Frivolous lawsuits should be an easy thing to handle, with a little bit of planning. If its stupid, it should never make it to court, and nobody should suffer financially for such a thing.

The problem is these doctors are suffering financially (according to the website) because of *justified* lawsuits that they are *losing* over and over. Why? Because they're flat out Guilty of harming people.

What are the chances of someone on this board having lost the lives of two loved ones due to malpractice? I mean seriously. Think about it. How prevalent must this problem be that even out of our tiny little group of guys here, one has watched *two* people die because of this issue?

If that web site were purely about how to handle frivolous lawsuits, I would not have disagreed or raised any issue with it. The problem is they take it a few steps further than that. Obviously people are winning, and winning big, and the medical community is suffering financially. Their way of dealing with that is to imply that all these justified lawsuits are making them the victims... making doctors leave the profession... making people be afraid to become doctors... and that's just plain backwards.

They need to stop blaming the patients for winning justified lawsuits and start looking at the way they conduct business that is causing these things.

gourmetstylewellness.com

 

[GourmetStyleWellness]

Doctors are not perfect by virtue of the fact that they are human.

Thats the problem. That is why the medical system needs reform. Not because doctors are inherently evil. Because doctors are inherently human, make mistakes, have bad days, get in bad moods, get Cocky, get Conceited, get arrogant... just like every other human. The problem is they are responsible for people's very lives, and along with that responsibility comes huge accountability. At least in every other profession on this earth. Not in the medical profession. There needs to be more accountability and checks and balances to offset the humanity factor. I don't blame doctors for being human and screwing up. I blame the medical community for allowing it to happen, unchecked, repeatedly, over and over. I definitely don't want to hear them whine about the fact that they keep getting punished for hurting people. Thats absolutely absurd. I do blame doctors for not continuing their education on a *weekly* basis, and other various things, but even with those issues, a system of checks and balances would help avoid errors.

It is offensive to me and thousands of other hardworking, caring, intelligent members of the medical community.

It should be offensive to you that its happening, not that we're reporting facts and events that happened to us. We are simply the delivery boy. The messenger. Don't shoot the messenger, get angry at what your peers are doing, and don't ignore that its happening.

Nobody said there aren't people who care. I personally believe the vast majority of them do care. The most intelligent, gifted, brilliant, and dedicated doctor I ever met was an ER doctor at Scripps Green Hospital here in san diego. I was blown away by his expertise, gentle hand, and absolutely hardcore concern for those he was treating. It literally SEEPED through his skin - all of these traits. My complaint is that he is the only one I've seen like this in the last 10 years.

They're out there.

gourmetstylewellness.com

 

[Guest]

>>Just think if everyone in the world including myself did their own job to their max potential,there would be no problems>>

"Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional!"

The Buddha

 

[Guest]

>>We must expect lawyers to be above such behavior>>

What in your experience would suggest that this is a reasonable expectation?

 

[Guest]

However, the impact of frivolous lawsuits cannot be overlooked.

I don't think anyone who takes my viewpoint on this issue thinks that frivolous lawsuits should be overlooked, so thats not too much of an issue. Frivolous lawsuits are a problem with every single profession and environment on this earth, not just medical related ones.

I have just never seen a certain profession try to blame the victims for suing them too much. Frivolous lawsuits should be an easy thing to handle, with a little bit of planning. If its stupid, it should never make it to court, and nobody should suffer financially for such a thing.

The problem is these doctors are suffering financially (according to the website) because of *justified* lawsuits that they are *losing* over and over. Why? Because they're flat out Guilty of harming people.

What are the chances of someone on this board having lost the lives of two loved ones due to malpractice? I mean seriously. Think about it. How prevalent must this problem be that even out of our tiny little group of guys here, one has watched *two* people die because of this issue?

If that web site were purely about how to handle frivolous lawsuits, I would not have disagreed or raised any issue with it. The problem is they take it a few steps further than that. Obviously people are winning, and winning big, and the medical community is suffering financially. Their way of dealing with that is to imply that all these justified lawsuits are making them the victims... making doctors leave the profession... making people be afraid to become doctors... and that's just plain backwards.

They need to stop blaming the patients for winning justified lawsuits and start looking at the way they conduct business that is causing these things.

gourmetstylewellness.com

gourmetstylewellness.com-no offense but you have lost all objectivity on this subject. Do you have any data or facts or studies to back up your statements?

For example, there IS data on the ESTIMATED number of deaths in US Hospitals attributed to medical error (all practicioners, not just MDs).

There is no estimate that I know of that pertains to office practice.

The real quetion is, how many errors can be tolerated. If you the patient, perhaps zero.

If you are looking at a system that cares for 300 M people, well some error will occur and is acceptable from a SYSTEMIC point of view.

Cost/benefit trade-offs made everyday.

Tah! :freaked2:

 

[GourmetStyleWellness]

Just think if everyone in the world including myself did their own job to their max potential,there would be no problems>>

Thats the problem. Doctors don't have any room for error. And while I feel bad for them, that is the nature of their profession, and all the more reason why someone in the medical profession needs to get off their butts and start instituting checks and balances. Of course there are thousands of lawsuits, due to thousands of mistakes. You can't expect human beings to be perfect. The medical profession however *is* expected to be perfect, and its the *LEAST* technologically savvy, *LEAST* structured system of any ive ever seen. Most doctors are still working with 500 drawer filing cabinets, and have ancient computer systems.

gourmetstylewellness.com