Dr. Cole in 1 Month

[Guest]

What makes you an expert? Your just a guy who had a transplant and posted more on this forum, so that makes you an authority? That's what's stupid is a guy who posts on forums and thinks he has all the answers and responds with meaningless rhetoric to cover his behind. Please!


Are we talking about the same guy here?

Let's see, has all the answers, responds with meaningless rhetoric (how long to look that one up LOL) is a known expert on hairloss, fitness, medicine, etc...

Yep, this is the same guy.

(just between us, I am glad he's on my side, I wouldn't want to make him angry)

 

[Guest]

Here are some additional comments by Dr. LookingGood


the norwood scale has alot of flaws.

It is just a generaliztion. Many hair transplant docs do not like it at all. There are a few classifications of a Norwood 2.
Armani has his own scale for instance.

I wouldnt put a whole lot of stock into each Norwood classification b/c every individual is so unique.

Are these blanket statements?

 

[global]

Thinning,

That's something you could verify yourself. I always encourage patients to do this because I agree continual turnover is not a good sign.

The temperament of those in charge of their clinics has a definite ripple effect throughout every employee. The wrong environment can put everyone on egg shells and supress them. They can be pre-occupied with fear of not wanting to do anything wrong to the point where they lose complete creativity and objectivity. They feel inhibited and even defensive because they do not receive the proper support, training, and direction from those over them. That's why they end up leaving over and over again.

Any clinic is as strong as its weakest link :roll:

But just think of all of the advantages where people are happy and want to give their best to every patient!

Yes this is so true, especially given that most of your transplant work will be done by the techs, I wouldnt want my transplant done by someone who has only been with the doctor a short time, I'd want a well trained long standing member of the team.

 

[techprof]

guys,
please chill.
I have learned a lot from Daveone's posts from other websites. Don't make him run away from our site. He is very objective (in most of his posts) and if he recommended Cole it means that he had seen Cole's work (probably got his hair transplant with Cole).

Though he is a newbie here, he has had many useful posts in other forums.

Dave, I request that you continue posting here and share your views. This thread is not representative of this site.

 

[DaveOne]

Hey techprof, thanks for the nice words.

Actually, I like this site, but I haven't been on the boards much lately in general.

I guess I made a mistake with the way I came into the forum, as I just assumed (I know, bad move) that my posting on other forums was enough to show that I wasn't a newbie. So I came into this forum acting as if I had been here for a long time, and people took it the wrong way, so that was my mistake. Guys on these boards get very argumentative very quickly, but it doesn't bother me, I'm used to it. But it was my mistake coming in here having a strong opinion since most people associate that with being a shill. That's why I tried to point out that I posted a lot on other boards, and just happened to discover this board...but doesn't really matter I guess, once people get something in their head it's difficult to fight it.

As far as Cole, his situation is unique. He has stated in other forums that he both loves his job and hates his job, and that he feels obligated to help out patients that have been damaged by unethical hair transplant docs in the past. He was a standout strip Doctor for a long time, and has many outstanding results to show for it.

But he developed his FUE technique a few years back out of necessity, since repair patients that were out of donor laxity needed alternatives that weren't previously available.

Some people will say he developed his Fue technique to make more money. Maybe. I mean, it is more expensive, but it's also more time consuming and more physically taxing. It requires double or triple the work of strip. He could have just coasted as a top notch strip Doctor and done fine ala H&W or Shapiro. So did he just do it for money? Once again, maybe. But if he's using that money to make his techniques better, and he's giving help to people who need it, is that a bad thing? He is not really making money off the repair patient and feels an obligation to help us out, so I'm not complaining.

As far as Cole and his "front office problems," here is a quote from Cole on another site:

"Jackson, I am humbled by yor response, but I am embarrassed to say that we do not do enough to help those who need help. I have a limited number of spots open on my schedule each month. If they do not fill, my staff is advised to place those in need of financial help in those slots. One of my problems is that each case takes time. Sometimes people ask for more than they are scheduled for or they need more than they are scheduled for. This takes time away from others. As i write this i feel ashamed that i do not do more, but i also recogize that my staff has limits to their lives. As i see them leave the office at 8 or 9pm each day, I feel for their boys and girls who wait at home each night for their parents, as well as my 8 and 10 year old. Hair loss is a terrible plight. I feel so guilty to my patients, my staff, and my children. I hope God, my family, and others will some day be able to forgive me for not doing more."

If anyone wants to read the whole thread it's here:
http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard.php ... &mode=full

The reason I mention this is because I've experience firsthand what Cole does for the repair patient: He regularly works 12-14 hr days doing way more work than the repair patient paid for because he knows how critical the surgery is to people trying to get on with their lives, and that time is of the essence. He worked on me for about 12 hrs, including another Doctor and 3-5 techs at any given time. He had to keep front office staff available as well during that time. So, what would you do? How much do you think it costs to keep those people in the office for 12-14 hrs? I mean, a nosejob costs 3-6k, and that only takes maybe 2hrs. If you knew what I paid for 12 hrs of work by three docs and 3-5 techs you would understand what I'm saying. People are coming in to his clinic from all over the world to get their lives back, he can't really say "oh it's 5pm now, I have to stop working on you..good luck!" Unfortunately, not everyone in the office can live this way. So there is turnover. His technical team is very proficient though, and at any given time Dr. Cole, Dr. Mwamba, and/or Dr. Bridges is overseeing and working with the techs, so that nothing is missed. He has said he doesn't really have time to deal with the "front office" and he's admitted that he's had problems with turnover because he has high demands on their time and their efforts, and that he is at heart kind of a hair geek, obsessed with refining his tools and improving his work. He is a pariah to the strip world to an extent, because while the strip docs are sleepwalking and talking about tricho (a closure technique that has been around for a very long time), they can only do strip, and cannot repair guys who don't have any laxity left but need more hair..that's a fact. While Dr. Cole is constantly refining his techniques, much to the thanks of guys like me who were SOL a few years ago when his techniques were not available.

He is a surgeon with unmatched passion..and I've talked to several other patients who experienced the same thing. So you can say what you want about him, but he walks the walk, and i don't think anyone who's seen his hairlines would disagree that he is extremely talented. And he maintains the opinion that people under 30 shouldn't get strip, because they may decide as they get older and continue to bald that they just want to go bald, and not having a strip is a big advantage- you can just keep your hair shorter and move on w/out a strip scar.

 

[balloonman]

Mark me down as someone who is NOT impressed with Dr Cole as a Dr or a human being. I think his posts are condescending towards everyone, including other Drs and his sole purpose on any forum is to create confusion between his FIT method and the identical FUE method.

I never liked Cole, I met him for a consult and I found him to be an arrogant prick. No one can argue that his hairlines are among the best in the business but, that is where his skills end.

His extraction sites are the worst in the FUE industry. No one causes more damage, leaves more scarring or uses larger punches than Dr Cole does. This is also why you NEVER see his patients donors shaved down after 1 year, its because of the circular hypotrophic white dot scarring that he creates using 1mm or larger punches.

I think his prices are among the highest as well. Dr Woods is in another league of insanity but, aside from him, I don't think anyone charges more than Cole does for extractions. Again, you will find the obscure Dr who has no interest or experience in performing FUE that might charge $12 a graft but, again no one goes to those no name Drs because they offer it just to say they offer it. As far as practicing FUE Drs he charges the most.

Cole realized that as a strip Dr he would never be booked to capacity. He knew that with the great Drs in the world doing strip like H&W, Armani, ********, Wolf, Shapiro etc.. he would always be "one of" the best and in line with many. As an FUE Dr he could take credit for being "the" best..or so he thinks. Truth is, in the US there arent that many FUE Drs at all so in reality he is one of a handful that even do it.

As a result, he is on every website, sponsors many hairloss websites, has a fulltime internet employee (forhair) who is paid to do nothing but push Cole, his photos, his techniques and his results. The sites allow this barrage because he pays them to advertise, if they didnt allow it he would pull hte sponsor money.

In the end, Cole is no better than anyone else and his PR department is what gets him business, not his pricing, not his results and certainly not his donor areas.

 

[DaveOne]

Mark me down as someone who is NOT impressed with Dr Cole as a Dr or a human being. I think his posts are condescending towards everyone, including other Drs and his sole purpose on any forum is to create confusion between his FIT method and the identical FUE method.

I never liked Cole, I met him for a consult and I found him to be an arrogant prick. No one can argue that his hairlines are among the best in the business but, that is where his skills end.

I liked him, so have others. You seem to have something personal against him, so be it.

His extraction sites are the worst in the FUE industry. No one causes more damage, leaves more scarring or uses larger punches than Dr Cole does. This is also why you NEVER see his patients donors shaved down after 1 year, its because of the circular hypotrophic white dot scarring that he creates using 1mm or larger punches.

I think you need to reevaluate this position. Here are some recent photos of Cole's FUE patients. Wassup, a prolific poster, has documented his case with very clear pics. Another poster, twa, recently posted his pics of his second FUE surgery. In the shaved down pics of both posters, we can see tiny little white dots, or gaps where the hair was removed a year or so ago. Compare Wassup's pics shaved down to his pics grown out 2 weeks later. The strip scars show, but the white dot appearance is gone. Do you disagree? Which would you rather have? This is not a damaged donor. It is not virgin, but it is hardly ravaged. You have shown your pics from Feller..these pics from Wassup aren't even close to the type of damage Feller did. There are more recent posters on other sites with no donor scarring issues. Cole probably had similar donors to Feller when he first started, but those days are long gone, and I think you need to admit this. Cole’s procedures have evolved. IrishJackMP shaves down to a 1 since he is in the army reserve and said it is not an issue. There’s McHale33. LookingGood posts on this site and had work done by Cole 4-5 months ago. Let's ask him what his donor looks like. Another poster who had 5k + fue has posted his results and says he is thrilled with his donor area. So what should we think? All we can do is look at recent pics and talk to recent patients and decide for ourselves.

Wassup pic 1 (surgery day, can see FUE scarring from last year’s fue surgery):
http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/atta ... ct11%2Ejpg

Wassup pic 2- hair grown out 2 weeks..can still see the strip scarring hair distortion, fue scarring is pretty much invisible
http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/atta ... ack2%2Ejpg

Twa pre-op pics…shows fue scarring on sides from previous fue surgery (just note he is a repair patient..the strip scars and pluggy grafts were from another Doctor)

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/atta ... 2006%2Ejpg

Fue megasession poster..5k+ scalp Fue were taken from the back
http://www.forhair.com/FUE_megasession_norwood6.htm

Baldimore- shows donor 9 months after surgery
http://www.forhair.com/fue_hair_restora ... sults2.htm

Once again, these are recent pics of Cole fue donors. Let’s use them as a barometer.

I think his prices are among the highest as well. Dr Woods is in another league of insanity but, aside from him, I don't think anyone charges more than Cole does for extractions. Again, you will find the obscure Dr who has no interest or experience in performing FUE that might charge $12 a graft but, again no one goes to those no name Drs because they offer it just to say they offer it. As far as practicing FUE Drs he charges the most.

This is not true..here's FUE prices for some docs:

Dr A (India) $4 per graft
Dr Umar (Calif) $5 per
Dr ******** (Brussels) 5 Euro (approx $6.40 US)
Dr. Cole $7 per
Dr Wolf $8 per
Dr Feller $10
Dr. Berstein $12

Cole realized that as a strip Dr he would never be booked to capacity. He knew that with the great Drs in the world doing strip like H&W, Armani, ********, Wolf, Shapiro etc.. he would always be "one of" the best and in line with many. As an FUE Dr he could take credit for being "the" best..or so he thinks. Truth is, in the US there arent that many FUE Drs at all so in reality he is one of a handful that even do it.


As a result, he is on every website, sponsors many hairloss websites, has a fulltime internet employee (forhair) who is paid to do nothing but push Cole, his photos, his techniques and his results. The sites allow this barrage because he pays them to advertise, if they didnt allow it he would pull hte sponsor money.

You're kidding right? What clinic doesn't belong to forums or coalitions? H&W, Shapiro, Armani, ********, Feller, Wolf, all belong to at least 1, 2, or more sites, and many have online marketers. Jotronic, spex, Philb, Shane, etc etc. You've stated that you would go to H&W, but they are all over the Internet too, and belong to as many sites as Cole, and I've seen Jotronic on at least 3 or 4 boards. It is the nature of this business unfortunately, but to single out Cole for this is simply dishonest.

In the end, Cole is no better than anyone else and his PR department is what gets him business, not his pricing, not his results and certainly not his donor areas.

I think it's exactly his results that get him his business. His hairlines are more natural than anyone's IMO. If not the best, they are equal to the best, and if you go to his site, there are plenty of high res, close-up pics of his hairlines to prove it. That's why people are going to him. There are also plenty of patients to see in person, and I don't think Cole is hiding anything. I have yet to hear one person in the last year that has gone to Cole complain about his donor work. I also think it's convenient that the two brothers at AHI, who used to work with Cole, and who were with him through the trial and error process can say that his donors are damaged. In the early stages of FUE, yes, I'll agree that he probably had some less than stellar work. So did Woods. No on else was even trying it at this point. But then guys pop up and use this as a selling point. It's reeks of marketing. No results, but pristine donors. At some point we need to look at the grown out pics and make our own judgement. These are recent posters who respond to posts, so let's use them to make our assessment and go from there. I could take H&W strip scars from when they first started strip and say: See? H&W are mangling their donors! Once again, if you look at the donors of recent Cole patients, they look fine to me. Gaps where the hairs were extracted yes, but not the “buckshot†scarring that you keep referring to. If you think Wassup's donor is ravaged, then we'll have to agree to disagree. And as far as price, consider the change in hair direction that a strip causes..as you can see in Wassup's 2 week pics, the fue scarring is gone, but the strip scars are still detectable. That is EXACTLY why people pay the extra money (rather than getting strip) to get FUE done by Cole.

I’m actually glad that you were so adamant against Cole..it forced me to research and talk to patients more than I ever would have otherwise. And now I know the truth, and have pics and in-person evidence to support my claims, rather than just words. I actually appreciate a lot of your posts, as you know a LOT about hair transplants, and you've helped me and other posters a lot. But I ask you to try and step back from your personal dislike for Cole and look at these donor pics honestly. Are they ravaged?

 

[balloonman]

DAVEONE: I do think the photos of Wassup demonstrate clearly what BAD FUE can do to a donor. I am not here to argue with you on which would be worse to have a liniar strip scar or buckshot white dot scarring. What I am here to tell you is that such white dot scarring is not the norm or even to be expected from qualified FUE Drs using appropriately sized tools.

Why would someone choose to have those scars when they dont need to? What is the sense of getting FUE, paying triple, spending days and days in a chair and shaving your head to the bone to get grafts when its all over you will never be able to shave your head? Sure you can cut your hair shorter with ANY FUE but, you still wont be able to go down to the skin without looking like a freak with thousands of white dots all over your head.

Cole is the only mainstream Dr that STILL PRODUCES these scar because of his large punches. AHI, ********, Wolf, DHI and just about every other FUE Dr I can think of has switched to .8mm or smaller punches except Cole.

Thats why I dont reccomend him and steer people away from him, because he causes scarring in the donor that is unnecessary and does nothing but, expedite his extraction times so he can make more money per day.

As far as your price quotes, Bernstein is one of those obscure Drs who claims to do FUE but does not. Have you ever seen or heard of a Bernstein FUE patient? No. Feller is another one who charges $8 by the way, not $10, but he also steers people away from FUE and towards strip.

 

[Guest]

I echo Balloonman's sentiments fully!

Been around these forums a long time and it sure looks to me like someone is trying to earn a free or discounted surgery, especially when they go "out of their way" to promote "one" doctor! :freaked:

For me, I would never have anything to do with a hair transplant surgeon who has such a controversial reputation for conflict with others including colleages, continual drama and explosive tempers that some want to market off as passion. Give me a break!

What are you going to do when it's in the middle of your procedure and he blows? Walk out?! :freaked2:

 

[DaveOne]

DAVEONE: I do think the photos of Wassup demonstrate clearly what BAD FUE can do to a donor. I am not here to argue with you on which would be worse to have a liniar strip scar or buckshot white dot scarring. What I am here to tell you is that such white dot scarring is not the norm or even to be expected from qualified FUE Drs using appropriately sized tools.

Why would someone choose to have those scars when they dont need to? What is the sense of getting FUE, paying triple, spending days and days in a chair and shaving your head to the bone to get grafts when its all over you will never be able to shave your head? Sure you can cut your hair shorter with ANY FUE but, you still wont be able to go down to the skin without looking like a freak with thousands of white dots all over your head.

Cole is the only mainstream Dr that STILL PRODUCES these scar because of his large punches. AHI, ********, Wolf, DHI and just about every other FUE Dr I can think of has switched to .8mm or smaller punches except Cole.

Thats why I dont reccomend him and steer people away from him, because he causes scarring in the donor that is unnecessary and does nothing but, expedite his extraction times so he can make more money per day.

As far as your price quotes, Bernstein is one of those obscure Drs who claims to do FUE but does not. Have you ever seen or heard of a Bernstein FUE patient? No. Feller is another one who charges $8 by the way, not $10, but he also steers people away from FUE and towards strip.

Ok, we'll have to disagree on that point then. but I do appreciate your position. A handful of FUE docs are out there. I wouldn't go to any of them other than Cole and maybe ******** (who was trained by Cole). The others have proven nothing except that they have good donors. Cole's scarring is acceptable to me, and continues to improve. And he says he uses .75 and up depending on the hair grouping, the caliber, etc. So it's his word against yours. More pics will be coming out of his more recent cases, and I think your position will change.

But let me also say that while there will be patients with some scarring like wassup, I double-checked and his first FUE was over two years ago, and baldmore's was 3 years ago, which explains the scarring, albeit slight even in the early FUE stages. The 5k + fue patient was a year ago and shows no white dot scarring, so it's clear his techniques have evolved. No?

 

[LookingGood!]

DAVEONE: I do think the photos of Wassup demonstrate clearly what BAD FUE can do to a donor. I am not here to argue with you on which would be worse to have a liniar strip scar or buckshot white dot scarring. What I am here to tell you is that such white dot scarring is not the norm or even to be expected from qualified FUE Drs using appropriately sized tools.

Why would someone choose to have those scars when they dont need to? What is the sense of getting FUE, paying triple, spending days and days in a chair and shaving your head to the bone to get grafts when its all over you will never be able to shave your head? Sure you can cut your hair shorter with ANY FUE but, you still wont be able to go down to the skin without looking like a freak with thousands of white dots all over your
head.

Cole is the only mainstream Dr that STILL PRODUCES these scar because of his large punches. AHI, ********, Wolf, DHI and just about every other FUE Dr I can think of has switched to .8mm or smaller punches except Cole.

Thats why I dont reccomend him and steer people away from him, because he causes scarring in the donor that is unnecessary and does nothing but, expedite his extraction times so he can make more money per day.

As far as your price quotes, Bernstein is one of those obscure Drs who claims to do FUE but does not. Have you ever seen or heard of a Bernstein FUE patient? No. Feller is another one who charges $8 by the way, not $10, but he also steers people away from FUE and towards strip.

Dude didnt you have a bad experience with Dr cole???
Anyway, Wassup doenst look bad at all. He wont be shaving his head anytime soon considering he put over 40K into his head with hair transplants. What you are talking about isnt that bad. Hell it's bound to happen with all the surgery he had.
Also, how do you know exactly what size punches Cole uses on each patient? Different sizes for different hair groupings..right? I think when posters start discussing punch sizes they are treading in areas that they are not very well versed in and tend to send the wrong message.
As for your info on Feller, he quoted me 10 dollars in May, did he lower his rate? Also he favors strip b/c it's convenient. He tried to sell me a strip and when I came in strictly for FUE. He doesnt do all that much FUE anymore. Moving to more strip.

As for calling people freaks with little dots...what do you call people with a big smiley face on the back of their head??? Exactly!

 

[LookingGood!]

Mark me down as someone who is NOT impressed with Dr Cole as a Dr or a human being. I think his posts are condescending towards everyone, including other Drs and his sole purpose on any forum is to create confusion between his FIT method and the identical FUE method.

I never liked Cole, I met him for a consult and I found him to be an arrogant prick. No one can argue that his hairlines are among the best in the business but, that is where his skills end.

His extraction sites are the worst in the FUE industry. No one causes more damage, leaves more scarring or uses larger punches than Dr Cole does. This is also why you NEVER see his patients donors shaved down after 1 year, its because of the circular hypotrophic white dot scarring that he creates using 1mm or larger punches.

I think his prices are among the highest as well. Dr Woods is in another league of insanity but, aside from him, I don't think anyone charges more than Cole does for extractions. Again, you will find the obscure Dr who has no interest or experience in performing FUE that might charge $12 a graft but, again no one goes to those no name Drs because they offer it just to say they offer it. As far as practicing FUE Drs he charges the most.

Cole realized that as a strip Dr he would never be booked to capacity. He knew that with the great Drs in the world doing strip like H&W, Armani, ********, Wolf, Shapiro etc.. he would always be "one of" the best and in line with many. As an FUE Dr he could take credit for being "the" best..or so he thinks. Truth is, in the US there arent that many FUE Drs at all so in reality he is one of a handful that even do it.

As a result, he is on every website, sponsors many hairloss websites, has a fulltime internet employee (forhair) who is paid to do nothing but push Cole, his photos, his techniques and his results. The sites allow this barrage because he pays them to advertise, if they didnt allow it he would pull hte sponsor money.

In the end, Cole is no better than anyone else and his PR department is what gets him business, not his pricing, not his results and certainly not his donor areas.

So you meet him for 1 consult and you sum him with this raucous tirade? I think you are the one that is suspect here. You dont know him well enough to make such accusations. His results speak for themselves. How may of his results did you see in person? How many? Dont include photos. I've seen 10-12 in person and they were all a marked improvement. So you dont like him...move on. BTW, I met Feller in person and to be honest he was not all that professional in his approach. Does that make me qualified to go on a public board and chastise him with a strident tone?

 

[DaveOne]

I echo Balloonman's sentiments fully!

Been around these forums a long time and it sure looks to me like someone is trying to earn a free or discounted surgery, especially when they go "out of their way" to promote "one" doctor! :freaked:

For me, I would never have anything to do with a hair transplant surgeon who has such a controversial reputation for conflict with others including colleages, continual drama and explosive tempers that some want to market off as passion. Give me a break!

What are you going to do when it's in the middle of your procedure and he blows? Walk out?! :freaked2:

Wow, Wow, Wow

Gillenator,

You have ZERO credibilty here, as you work in the hair transplant field, and have worked for various hair transplant clinics/docs at any given time while posting on these forums acting like an unbiased observer who "used" to work in the industry. Unfortunately for you, these boards go way back, and your posting history is there to see for anyone who cares to know. You are a career shill. You used to work with Cole, and then immediately started trashing him after you were fired, so please refrain from accusing me of trying to gain anything here. Your behavior after leaving IHTI speaks volumes about your professionalism.

I could ask you what the circumstances were surrounding your exit from IHTI, but why should anyone believe you? You've shown your true colors. You haven't even let people know that you've had hair transplants done by Cole, including your hairline, and you said the work was excellent, but you NEVER happen to mention that fact to other people. And I've seen you trash other Cole repair patients like me, so I know what I need to know about the type of character you have.

As far as trying to get free/discounted work, the same exact thing could be said for balloonman, or anyone else for that matter; it is the oldest hack accusation in the book. CCS posts in here about doctor Keene all the time. Is he trying to get free work from her? Balloonman has stated that he doesn't get any free work from AHI or anywhere else, but he praises them all the time. Is he shilling? How about JohnnyE, or Bushy? Truth is, nobody can ever truly know, right? But the point is that this forum should be here for patients to post their experiences with their docs. When people like you get in here it muddies the waters. I will say this, you get paid to do what you do, so who has more to gain by posting in these forums?

I've often been supportive of other docs who do respectable work, ala H&W, Shapiro, Wolf, and I've recommended these different docs to others depending on what their needs are...etc. I have never been offered anything free from Cole or anyone else, just to be clear on that. In fact, this is a habit of yours. I've seen you trash other Cole patients in similar fashion, and repair patients at that. There are patients all over the net posting about H&W, Shapiro, etc, are they trying to get free work? ...forums are about PATIENT'S EXPERIENCES, but a Cole patient is fishing for freebies? Hmmm. In the same way you think I'm going out of my way to promote one Doctor, aren't you going out of your way to trash him? If you want to be a patient then post your experiences about how much you like your hair transplant from Cole. The only reason I'm posting so much about Cole in this forum is to defend MYSELF, and to talk about my experiences, that is all. I'm still a patient, so I want to stay connected and stay apprised of the latest and greatest techniques.

Some guy comes into the forum and says he's going to get surgery from COle, I tell him his results will look natural (which they will), and I'm accused of being a shill. I'm actually glad that another patient accused me of that..that's what patients should do, weed out shills. Ironically, a hair transplant salesman like yourself has to jump in because Cole is probably taking patients away from the docs lining your wallet. Seriously, Cole has the most diverse set of skills for repair, and is one of the most skilled surgeons out there (as you know, and have mentioned on several occasions on different forums) and I have direct experience with this, so what should I do, keep my mouth shut?

The only problem with Cole's office is that he overworks himself and his staff, and he has admitted as much. But his skill and focus in the Surgery Room are unquestionable. You seem to have something personal against him, but that's a matter related to your employment, and not something that should be aired out on the Internet. Regardless, your credibility is nill. So I will ask you to refrain from speaking about anything but the technical aspects of surgery, because unless you've been at IHTI for surgery recently, you have no idea what you're talking about. And Cole's results are out there to see, including your hairline.

At least guys like Jotronic are upfront about the fact that they work for other clinics, instead of acting like some kind of "unbiased" patient advocate.

To everyone else, I'm sorry this post has degraded to this level, but I will not tolerate a shill making flippant remarks about my integrity. Please stick to the technical aspects of surgery Gillenator or don't post at all.

 

[tchehov]

So did Hotbaldguy ever go for his hair transplant after this brouhaha?

 

[techprof]

Daveone,
I genuinely welcome you to this forum. But please don't bash Gillenator.
He has been very friendly and informative for many of us. I had my surgery planned with Dr. A. He didn't force his opinion on any doctor on me or any other posters as far as I know. In th is forum he is the only knowledgable person helping newbies making decisions about fue/strip or doctors.

He might have had a bad experience with Cole which makes him hate Cole.
We should probably stick to not blaming any one else in this forum. Just my cents.

 

[balloonman]

DAVEONE: With all due respect your posts sound like a Cole infomercial. You make statements that are blatently incorrect and supported by no facts at all.

You wrote: "Cole's scarring is acceptable to me, and continues to improve. And he says he uses .75 and up depending on the hair grouping, the caliber, etc. So it's his word against yours."

Well, actually its his words against yours. From Coles own website:

"The general rule in skin surgery is that an incision smaller than 1.5 mm in size will heal without a visible scar to the naked eye. Therefore, in theory there should be no cosmetic advantage to a smaller incision than 1.25 mm in diameter or 1 mm in diameter and there could be disastrous results from smaller incisions in regard to hair shaft damage. Furthermore, the total number of hairs transferred by using smaller punches can be significantly less."

" A 0.75 mm punch will work, but the incision must be perfect. Humans are not always perfect. A 0.8 mm punch will work on the 2 hair follicular unit also, but the human must also be perfect. The 0.9 mm punch provides a larger cushion and we have used it quite often for 2 hair grafts, but it is not possible to use it on every patient or every 2 hair graft. The 1 mm punch provides a larger cushion for human error and a very high yield with most grafts and in most individuals. Still sometimes the 1.0 mm punch is too small and we increase to a 1.1 mm punch. In rare individuals it is a prudent to increase the punch size even more and we have used a 1.25 mm punch in extreme cases when dealing with very large follicular units or a great deal of wide splay. "

Now, I know what Cole uses because I have a mole in his office. I also know what he uses based on the former employees, former techs, former Drs and drs that he trained. He NEVER uses a .75mm as evidenced by his own wrods. He says quite often that his FIT AVERAGES 2.82 hairs per graft.

Based on his own words, a 2 hair graft cannot be extracted by anything less than 1mm without the risk of error. These are his own words and I know with 100% certainty that is Bulshit because I have seen thousands of my own 2 hair groupings and larger removed with a .75mm punch intact.

Again, based on Coles words, if he uses a 1mm punch for a 2 hair grouping, how large a punch do you think he must use to AVERAGE 2.82 hairs per graft? Can't be .75mm or even 1.0mm so, as he went on to say, it must be increased to 1.1mm or 1.25mm in order to safely extract the grafts.

This is why ALL of Coles patients have white dot scarring. That means 100% of them. Provide me with a single photo showing otherwise and I will apologise. The one you think has no scarring was photoshopped and I happen to have it "unphotoshopped" with the correct color and contrast levels to prove the scarring exists on this patient as well.

The fact that is may be acceptable to you has no bearing, it may be acceptable for someone to have a liniar scar too but, it still is a scar. Coles inability to use smaller punches leads to destruction of donor areas, moth eaten thinning, hypotrophic white dots and sub dermal scarring that makes subsequent FUE much more difficult.

In a nutshell, he sucks.

 

[DaveOne]

Techprof, I think I've maintained a civil tone for the most part, and I'm glad that gillenator has helped you..I wish to take nothing away from that. But when an hair transplant salesman questions my intentions, I can only defend myself. Jotronic would never conduct himself this way.

One more thing Techprof my friend, the reason he didn't push other doctors on you when you were going for surgery w/ Dr A is because gillenator was a consultant for Dr A at one point, probably while you were getting hair transplants w/ him. He's getting paid to promote certain docs at any given time. I don't have an issue with that if someone is up front about it.

As far as balloonman, I don't agree w/ his position on Cole or on other things, but he will argue points with me, rather than stooping to questioning my integrity. I do think balloonman that you do send conflicting messages though, which leads me to believe your position w/ Cole is a more personal one. Here is a quote from you at hairsite, under the username "notanewbie"

"I am no dr so take what I say as my opinion not gospel.

For 2500 I would do a strip, some will argue that is not enough and others will tell you never do strip but, I think at that number and based on your description of hairloss then I think thats the way to go.

Dr Cole does strip and hes damn good at it, dare i say he is better at strip than FUE but, thats my opinion. What is not in dispute is that his hairlines are arguably the best in the business.

I would reccomend Cole for strip but, I fear that once you get in his office his persuasive ways will turn you towards FUE and that is something I would not be happy you did for 2500 grafts.

Cole is a great choice and H&W are always number one in my book. Shapiro is also a top Doctor. None of them will let you down or F you up. base it on price and location and pick once of those 3."

You're recommending him in one breath, and trashing him in the other.

AS far as the punch size article by Cole, that was an article from 2.5 years ago, when FIT was still new. He's had more recent discussions about it. There's some interesting points he makes on this thread about the .75 punch:

http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard.php ... 7947&page=

Honestly though, I'm done with this discussion. I was trying to give someone support, and the thread just got shredded to pieces. It is obvious that this will continue, so as long as I don't have to defend any more ridiculous personal attacks, I will try to refrain from posting anymore on this thread, otherwise it will never end.

Edit: sp

 

[DaveOne]

Refer to previos post

 

[techprof]

Daveone
sorry to correct you and sorry for the confusion.
I went with Dr. Arvind Poswal (from India) and not Dr. Armani as you thought of.
Please go back and read Gillenator's last 20 posts here. You will find that the he has been genuinine more or less.

 

[Guest]

Techprof,

Thanks for the support and mentioning to read my posting history. Anyone's actions OR lack of them tells alot about their chararcter. Anyone can research every post I have ever done on ANY forum to judge my character, it speaks for itself. And please note I NEVER steer patients to my supporting docs, ever. They are well known, ethical and don't need anyone cheerleading for them like Daveone is doing. Quite the reverse. Whenever anyone has asked me about other good ethical doctors, I tell them they are in good hands. I don't go into ten page disortations about ONE Doctor who conveniently just happens to be the one doing my work at a discount! And then to insult all of our intelligence to make excuses for an uncontrollable explosive temper and try and pass it off as "passion". I about threw up when I read that one cause you sound exactly like Scott Peterson's attorney!

And when a patient has legitimate intentions, they simply come on the forums, usually with pics and state what a nice result they got from the Doctor they believe in. I applaud those patients. BUT YOU? you come here with page after page of posts trying to sell Cole and Only Cole to everyone. Do you think these folks are stupid.? They see right through it!

I have routinely offered anyone interested to come and see my filed tax returns for the past ten years if you like, see my bank history, meet with my accountant, what do I care? I have nothing to hide. I can prove that I don't even make 17,000 annually for all the time I spend helping others as an advocate. What Daveone conveniently left out was the fact I represent patients who come to me as a mediator to resolve their bad situations between them and their hair transplant docs. I spend a fair amount of my time trying to get patients' money back and/or negotiating a settlement, etc, etc. And I have never charged anyone one dime for any assistance or support in the 26 years I have been in this field. And I'm in it for the money?! Nice try Dave but it did'nt work. These folks already know me by my proven actions within the industry. Do you guys really think my docs like Shapiro, Rose, True and the rest would publicly support a "shill" as he calls it? Notice Dave brought up that term initially and hung that jacket on himself.

Listen to this folks VERY CAREFULLY. I can prove what I earn, BUT what Daveone is not telling you is that he undoubtedly earning free grafts for his next procedure. WHAT OTHER POSSIBLE MOTIVE COULD THERE BE FOR HIS COVERT PROMOTNG OF 'ONE" Doctor? Let's do the math shall we? Let's say that Daveone gets 1,000 free FUE grafts (and he's probably getting more), but let's say 1,000 free grafts for promoting Cole as some God until his next procedure. That's 1,000 X $8.00 or $8,000 and if he gets 1500 grafts, it's worth 12,000! If it's BH grafts, it would be worth $18,000!!! Do you all see who is really shilling at your expense? Think about it. It goes on in this industry far more than any of you think. And it's all under the table compensation these covert posters benefit from. It's the oldest trick in the book since the advent of these forums.

NEVER AND I MEAN NEVER take anyone serious who runs around promoting ONE doctor as I said before. Read between the lines folks. Daveone hung himself with his own words trying to play us all like dimwits or something. ANYONE who relentlessly goes out of their way recommending one doctor IS EARNING A FREE SURGERY, PERIOD! MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT! :freaked:

There have been dozens and scores of Daveones trying to steer patients to ONE Doctor and then guess what? They eventually disappear from the forums because they are finished with their corrective work! Don't have to earn any more free grafts right Davie?

One last thing to point out. Go back and read my first post in this particular thread. Please note that my exact words were, "It sure appears that someone is earning a free surgery to me". I never outright accused Daveone BECAUSE I wanted to see how he reacted. Had he come backand simply said, Gillenator, I'm not earning any free surgery so think what you want. I'm just happy period. That's what an innocent person would normally say. BUT, Daveone tries to "sell" you on unexcusable explosive behavior is really passion in disguise! :roll: He goes on writing pages and pages of posts like he's trying to sell us a used car. Possibly that's what he does for a living, who knows.

Then to falsely accuse the reputable docs who support my advocacy efforts by insinuating they are compensating me for referrals or paying me under the table, whatever, is nothing more than a desperate move on your part, nothing more. Your grasping for straws Dave. Everyone knows their reputations and you never see or hear of patients speaking ill of them either. Like I said they don't need undercover posters like you because they don't have controversial reputations like your doctor.

And listen folks, for someone like me who's been around for twenty-six years would have been hung out to dry by now IF I had done anything that was deceptive or unethical. if I did take money from patients like you falsely accuse me of, IT WOULD BE ALL OVER THE INTERNET! DUH!!! But you cant't find EVEN ONE patient that has ever complained about me taking advantage of them, not one in 26 years because it's never happened. You can't refute the many words of thanks and dozens and dozens of e-mails I get weekly from patients who I have helped and genuinely cared for. It's even right here in this thread and I am not tooting my horn. Real life examples Daveone, not the accusatory BULL you're trying to pass off like a few other other covert cheerleaders like you are doing.

But one can CLEARLY SEE your anger and hostility in your posts. You aren't fooling anyone. People who are sincere and genuine in helping others do not explode and blow their tops when their motives are questioned. You gave yourself your own verdict and you don't even realize it, but we all do. Your explosive out of control behaviour in this thread reminds me of a certain doctor that I used to work for. I wonder if Balloonman knws who I am thinking of. Well I guess it's kind of like the ole' sayin', "birds of the same feather, flock togethor.

The other surgeons who left Cole when I did, not to mention many surgery and admin staff which turnover continues to this day, are we all lying? Are we all wrong? Give me a break! Can't you see how ridiculous your statements are? Of course you can, yet your still trying to sell us bull. That's also how I know you are a covert implant. No one without an alterior motive would talk such nonsense and make such ridiculous senseless excuses for your doctor.

Many, many folks like Balloonman know and have seen all of the conflict your doctor creates within the forums and industry. To prove what I am saying, anyone can go to the HairTransplantNetwork and do a word search on him and also do it on the other forums and you all will see what I mean by his controversial and adversarial behavior with others. Yet you associate that behavior with "passion". Well, all of the other top docs mentioned in these forums work just as long hours, probably more. Yet they don't have the contoversial behavior as your doctor does. They don't have employees quitting on them faster than you or I can blink for crying out loud. Can you please explain that to us with specific facts, not unfounded ramblings? Of course you can't or you would have done it. Just more proof you're an implant. :freaked2:

What can be the only reason why Daveone exploded into a rage when his motives were questioned? Beacuse he knows he lost big time crediblity when his hand was caught in the "free graft" cookie jar. Business is much slower at IHTI in Atlanta because more and more ethical talented surgeons are producing better FUE work. Bottom line? Better competition and getting harder to earn those freebies right Daveone? And FYI, Ballonman does have an inside contact so IMO, he is speaking with credibility. How can any of you criticize Balloonman about whether he knows about who uses what size punches? You can't. You don't know what he has researched and verified. Just more unfounded attacks.

But the million dollar question that will always remain is "why would anyone in their right mind take the risk that a certain doctor is going to blow a cork or have one of his bad moods on your day of surgery? Anyone feel like rolling the dice?

Like I have always said, there are approximately 40 hair transplant surgeons world-wide doing fabulous and even superior FUE and strip work. There are so many other better alternatives in surgeons and I have recommended many of them when asked for my opinion, I never recommend JUST ONE because I'm not trying to earn any free grafts! :freaked2: