EVERYONE Will Get Finasteride Side-Effects Eventually

[trialAcc]

People on this forum thinking that any topical will kill fina sales are delusional.

That's because you're randomly assuming that it will be a topical of the same efficacy. A topical that actually regrows hair on most people will replace finasteride right away.

 

[trialAcc]

This is why I'm a bit scared to start finasteride. I've seen some reports of people doing fine on their initial run of finasteride, then they stopped for whatever reason, but upon restarting finasteride they ended up with either the usual side-effects or reflex hyperandrogenicity. I'm just wondering if using finasteride could somehow negatively affect results of future treatments, after all usually they don't include people with a history of finasteride usage in clinical trials.

So don't stop? And why would you be in clinical trials lol

 

[trialAcc]

Recent study from february:

Characteristics of finasteride users in comparison with nonusers: A Nordic nationwide study based on individual-level data from Denmark, Finland, and Sweden​

Methods: In total, 246 508 finasteride users (≥35 years) were identified in the prescription registries of Denmark (1995-2014), Finland (1997-2013), and Sweden (2005-2014). An equal number of nonusers were sampled. The directed acyclic graph (DAG) methodology was used to identify potential confounders for the association between finasteride and male breast cancer. A logistic regression model compared finasteride users and nonusers with regard to potential confounders that were measurable in registries and population surveys.


Results: Finasteride users had higher odds of testicular abnormalities (odds ratio [OR] 1.40; 95% confidence interval [CI] 1.36-1.44), obesity (1.31; 1.23-1.39), exogenous testosterone (1.61; 1.48-1.74), radiation exposure (1.22; 1.18-1.27), and diabetes (1.07; 1.04-1.10) and lower odds of occupational exposure in perfume industry or in high temperature environments (0.93; 0.87-0.99), living alone (0.89; 0.88-0.91), living in urban/suburban areas (0.97; 0.95-0.99), and physical inactivity (0.70; 0.50-0.99) compared to nonusers.


Conclusions: Systematic differences between finasteride users and nonusers were found emphasizing the importance of confounder adjustment of associations between finasteride and male breast cancer.

Characteristics of finasteride users in comparison with nonusers: A Nordic nationwide study based on individual-level data from Denmark, Finland, and Sweden - PubMed

Systematic differences between finasteride users and nonusers were found emphasizing the importance of confounder adjustment of associations between finasteride and male breast cancer.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

So a study of 246,508 finasteride users age 35 and over by Kjaerulff et al;

Finasteride users were 1.4x more likely to have testicular abnormalities compared to non-users

Now show us the same study with just balding non-users vs a blanket population sample. I'm guessing the statistical significance of this study vanishes.

Also, the study is not on 246,508 people lol, no less on 500k+ people that they would be suggesting using an "equal control". That's the total amount of users identified in the entire registries of 3 countries over a 9 year period. Really speaks to the quality of the study where they don't even both to show you the sampling methods and N values in the methods/abstract. They could have conducted this study on 15 people.

 

[heyhey]

This is a real horror story.

https://www.reddit.com/r/finasteridepropecia/comments/hjn7zh

Absolutely don't take fina when you want to conceive or if your wife's pregnant.

Edit; also fresh new study:

Finasteride interferes with prostaglandin-induced CatSper-signalling in human sperm​

In conclusion, the use of finasteride may affect Ca2+-signalling in human sperm through an interaction with the PGE1-binding site, but to which extend it alters the chances of a successful fertilization needs further investigation. It remains to be investigated whether finasteride administration may give rise to side effects by interfering with prostaglandin signalling elsewhere in the human body.

Finasteride interferes with prostaglandin-induced CatSper signalling in human sperm - PubMed

Ca2+ signalling controls human sperm functions necessary for successful fertilization. Multiple endocrine-disrupting chemicals have been found to activate the CatSper Ca2+ channel and thereby interfering with Ca2+ signalling in human sperm. Finasteride is prescribed to men in the fertile age to...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

So because someone says this on reddit, its true? It might be true but also fake, you have to point to documented cases, not some reddit story. I dont doubt you should stop taking it tho when trying to make your wife pregnant.

 

[kidcurry96]

according to studies side effects are temporary and only effect 1-4% of men yet on online forums that number seems to be way higher

I have never understood this myself. I sometimes question the accuracy of the side effect reported. What exactly was Propecias official statement? Only 2 percent get sides or get persistent sides?

 

[trialAcc]

I have never understood this myself. I sometimes question the accuracy of the side effect reported. What exactly was Propecias official statement? Only 2 percent get sides or get persistent sides?

It's called bias. You think there are more people with sides because the loudest people online are the ones with the sides. No one is writing articles based on the millions of people who have taken finasteride without problems, but the several % who get problems have articles written about them.

 

[Catagen]

It's called bias. You think there are more people with sides because the loudest people online are the ones with the sides.

A forum report with a small sample cannot compare to a multi million scientific research lead by actual scientists.

 

[whatevr]

A forum report with a small sample cannot compare to a multi million scientific research lead by actual scientists.

Well, that's true. On one hand you have people sharing their honest real world experience of using a drug. On the other, you have a bunch of capitalist psychos with a history of falsifying data about the safety of their drugs:

JCI - Poison pills: The untold story of the Vioxx drug scandal

www.jci.org

Judge orders Merck documents on anti-baldness drug Propecia unsealed

A U.S. judge granted a Reuters request to unseal Merck & Co documents produced in lawsuits related to its anti-baldness treatment Propecia, finding that the public's right to access outweighed the drug maker's arguments for keeping the information secret.

www.reuters.com

 

[trialAcc]

A forum report with a small sample cannot compare to a multi million scientific research lead by actual scientists.

Well, that's true. On one hand you have people sharing their honest real world experience of using a drug. On the other, you have a bunch of capitalist psychos with a history of falsifying data about the safety of their drugs:

JCI - Poison pills: The untold story of the Vioxx drug scandal

www.jci.org

Judge orders Merck documents on anti-baldness drug Propecia unsealed

A U.S. judge granted a Reuters request to unseal Merck & Co documents produced in lawsuits related to its anti-baldness treatment Propecia, finding that the public's right to access outweighed the drug maker's arguments for keeping the information secret.

www.reuters.com

Except there are independent studies done globally as well as through academia that basically came to the same instance of sides as the actual trials, and the people sharing their honest real world experiences are mostly doing so from a point of negativity.

I'm not saying that Merck didn't use poor questioning to actually find sides, whether deliberate or not, but you cannot possibly think that internet forums are an honest account of the average experience of using a drug.

 

[NickyA]

It's called bias. You think there are more people with sides because the loudest people online are the ones with the sides. No one is writing articles based on the millions of people who have taken finasteride without problems, but the several % who get problems have articles written about them.

I agree with this 100%. The most active users usually have aggressive hair loss, side effects or BDD, and consequently they get the most attention on the forums, giving the impression that most people have trouble treating hair loss. As an example, two users who clearly have BDD haven been in the first page of the "My Story" subforum for two months straight with lots of comments, while threads such as the guy who says he has maintained on finasteride and minoxidil for 11 years or my thread are barely visited.

 

[heyhey]

Some new studies from this year, don't think it has been posted already:

The Postnatal Offspring of Finasteride-Treated Male Rats Shows Hyperglycaemia, Elevated Hepatic Glycogen Storage and Altered GLUT2, IR, and AR Expression in the Liver​

Conclusions: It seems that treating male adult rats with finasteride causes changes in the carbohydrate metabolism in the liver of their offspring. This can lead to improper hepatic energy homeostasis or even hyperglycaemia, insulin resistance, as well as some symptoms of metabolic syndrome and liver steatosis.

The Postnatal Offspring of Finasteride-Treated Male Rats Shows Hyperglycaemia, Elevated Hepatic Glycogen Storage and Altered GLUT2, IR, and AR Expression in the Liver - PubMed

It seems that treating male adult rats with finasteride causes changes in the carbohydrate metabolism in the liver of their offspring. This can lead to improper hepatic energy homeostasis or even hyperglycaemia, insulin resistance, as well as some symptoms of metabolic syndrome and liver steatosis.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Finasteride interferes with prostaglandin-induced CatSper-signalling in human sperm​

Abstract ​

Ca2+-signalling controls human sperm functions necessary for successful fertilization. Multiple endocrine disrupting chemicals have been found to activate the CatSper Ca2+-channel and thereby interfere with Ca2+-signalling in human sperm. Finasteride is prescribed to men in the fertile age to treat hair loss and its use has been associated with impaired male fertility. Due to the structural relatedness of finasteride to the endogenous CatSper ligand progesterone this study aimed to investigate whether finasteride affects human sperm in a progestogen-like manner. The effect of finasteride on Ca2+-signalling via CatSper in human sperm was investigated in cell suspensions and by single cell imaging. Additionally, effects on sperm penetration into viscous medium and acrosome reaction were assessed. Finasteride alone caused a minor, transient rise in the intracellular, free Ca2+ concentration ([Ca2+]i) at physiologically relevant concentrations. Ca2+-signals induced by PGE1 were inhibited by finasteride displaying mixed type of inhibition consistent with multiple binding sites. Finasteride did not interfere with progesterone-induced Ca2+-signalling and no effect on acrosome reaction or sperm viability was found. Finasteride significantly decreased PGE1-induced penetration into viscous medium, but in concentrations above what is measured in blood and seminal fluids during regular finasteride administration. In conclusion, the use of finasteride may affect Ca2+-signalling in human sperm through an interaction with the PGE1-binding site, but to which extend it alters the chances of a successful fertilization needs further investigation. It remains to be investigated whether finasteride administration may give rise to side effects by interfering with prostaglandin signalling elsewhere in the human body.

Finasteride interferes with prostaglandin-induced CatSper signalling in human sperm - PubMed

Ca2+ signalling controls human sperm functions necessary for successful fertilization. Multiple endocrine-disrupting chemicals have been found to activate the CatSper Ca2+ channel and thereby interfering with Ca2+ signalling in human sperm. Finasteride is prescribed to men in the fertile age to...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Are you for real? i could show you studies that show chocolate is dangerous for dogs. Also there have been several unbiased third party studies on the safety on finasteride and when you account for placebo, the side effect profile is 1-2% (including very mild sides). You have been on this forum for ages spreading your fear mongering, why dont you go and write in pfs help with your psychotic friends there instead. 98-99% of us who have used finasteride for years experience zero sides.

 

[sonictemples]

You guys are thinking too hard about this. There are already platforms that warn individuals. People know the risks, if they wish to take it they will be responsible for every result whether they are life saving or life ruining.

 

[heyhey]

This here is another great example of the typical hopeless balding fina/duta taker who brings no arguments but labels people "fear mongerers" when confronted with the reality that 5ar inhibitors aren't safe.

Don't shoot the messenger and stay out of this thread if you can't deal with new studies unveiling the dangers.

Unlike you im not balding since im on finasteride... And you are not a messenger, there are several studies out there that proves finasteride is safe. Go back to pfs help forum.

 

[heyhey]

This here is another great example of the typical hopeless balding fina/duta taker who brings no arguments but labels people "fear mongerers" when confronted with the reality that 5ar inhibitors aren't safe.

Don't shoot the messenger and stay out of this thread if you can't deal with new studies unveiling the dangers.

And what did that study unveil? that finasteride might not be good for a mouse?

 

[trialAcc]

Ever heard about comparative studies? I'm sorry the outcome of this study doesn't fit your narrative that finasteride is safe, that doesn't make this study any less valid. This is also done by a respected danish university. Although I do agree we need more studies of course.

Sure, but whats the N value lol. The only narrative that's not being met is yours unfortunately. I'd be the least surprised person that finasteride/dutasteride isnt safe long term, but this doesn't change the fact that you're sharing every piece of low quality information like it's the holy gospel of research to try and prove a point.

 

[Derelict]

Ever heard about comparative studies? I'm sorry the outcome of this study doesn't fit your narrative that finasteride is safe, that doesn't make this study any less valid. This is also done by a respected danish university. Although I do agree we need more studies of course.

I don't know why you keep repeating this, i don't know of anyone that says finasteride is completely safe, like pretty much any medication there are potential sides that come with taking it, it is about whether the value finasteride brings outweighs the risks involved in taking it, thousands die each year in car accidents but we keep them on the road because the benefits to them vastly outweigh the risks involved in driving one. For me and many others this is the case, but i understand that does not apply to everyone, it is up to each individual to assess and make the appropriate choice from themselves.

 

[sonictemples]

It's true that people and doctors are much more aware of the risks than in the past, more and more doctors and dermatologists who also don't want to prescribe it anymore.

I also want to make it clear that I'm not against banning finasteride/dutasteride, everyone should be free to take whatever they want BUT they should be informed correctly and completely. And I believe topical AA's like topical duta can be benefitial for hairloss with a good balance between risk and reward.

The amount of discussion going on here isn't healthy. Regardless of if you want to/don't want to take finasteride no need to put this much thought into it. All of these studies make it harder for people who want to take it. Nocebo isn't the explanation to a lot of things but it's very well possible some dudes out there get side effects due to people regularly posting about how evil finasteride is. Just try to keep it more sparse for the sake of other people. We all know what sides finasteride cause regardless of these types of posts. If you want to add to people's misery you can continue to fill their minds with more fear. There is a difference between awareness and fear and most anti-finasteride people push that line too far

 

[kidcurry96]

It's true that people and doctors are much more aware of the risks than in the past, more and more doctors and dermatologists who also don't want to prescribe it anymore.

I also want to make it clear that I'm not against banning finasteride/dutasteride, everyone should be free to take whatever they want BUT they should be informed correctly and completely. And I believe topical AA's like topical duta can be benefitial for hairloss with a good balance between risk and reward.

Wait, why would topical dutasteride be better than topical finasteride?

 

[kidcurry96]

The amount of discussion going on here isn't healthy. Regardless of if you want to/don't want to take finasteride no need to put this much thought into it. All of these studies make it harder for people who want to take it. Nocebo isn't the explanation to a lot of things but it's very well possible some dudes out there get side effects due to people regularly posting about how evil finasteride is. Just try to keep it more sparse for the sake of other people. We all know what sides finasteride cause regardless of these types of posts. If you want to add to people's misery you can continue to fill their minds with more fear. There is a difference between awareness and fear and most anti-finasteride people push that line too far

As someone who got their hormones checked and is trying to educate themselves of finasteride, this makes 100 percent sense. If one wants to keep their hair, I am not sure what proven , potent and side effect free choices they have. I know there RU58841 and CB-03-01 and heard something about Progesterone but I dont think any of them have been studied as much as finasteride.

 

[Derelict]

Wait, why would topical dutasteride be better than topical finasteride?

Higher molecular size i believe, less goes systematic and gives hardly any sides because it doesn't reduce serum levels by much, but i have never tried it.