EVERYONE Will Get Finasteride Side-Effects Eventually

[Stating facts]

Men are FAR less likely to speak up about the side effects on Finasteride.

Even in the placebo as well. Which men do you know who would admit that he is suffering from ED? If I understand double blind studies well, these are just anecdotes and hence I highly doubt the outcome of these studies.

 

[Micky_007]

Even in the placebo as well. Which men do you know who would admit that he is suffering from ED? If I understand double blind studies well, these are just anecdotes and hence I highly doubt the outcome of these studies.

Exactly my point, barely any men would speak up about suffering from ED, especially not in person. Even on these forums people who had side effects on Finasteride don't always go into full detail of the full range of side effects they experienced even whilst staying anonymous.

 

[user394587]

Even in the placebo as well. Which men do you know who would admit that he is suffering from ED? If I understand double blind studies well, these are just anecdotes and hence I highly doubt the outcome of these studies.

It depends on the study, but even the better designed ones are still using rating systems like ASEX questionnaires. That's better than self reporting, but it's still limited.

If you wanted to actually analyze physiological ED properly you would need to measure nocturnal erections (nocturnal penile tumescence) in finasteride users and compare to placebo. As far as I'm aware, this was done in one study (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7775644/) and the researchers found that sleep related erections were not consistently suppressed by finasteride. The study had a good design, but unfortunately the sample size was small. Not surprising given that they used polysomnography to assess erections, and I'd imagine that getting people to sign up for that is difficult.

 

[Jacoby77]

None of us have a plan B. Finasteride and dutasteride are the only clinically proven treatments to work in the long term. There's things in the pipeline like pyrilutamide, but this goes back to the old meme "another treatment will be out in a few years". Some of the treaments in development by Kintor are promising, but I wouldn't bet on them.

If you get side effects from finasteride then it's going to be up to you to weigh the pros and cons of if they're worth dealing with. Some people continue with side effects, some don't. If I had the side effects that @Stating facts had, for example, I'd quit the medication as well. That would not be worth keeping my hair over.

With minoxidil, the most you can hope for is probably somewhere around 3-5 years, but it also depends on how aggressive your hair loss is.

I think the only thing you can do in your case, if dermatologists can't tell the difference between vitamin D thinning and DPA, is to monitor your vitamin D levels and the quality of your hair. If it continues to decline, then you know it's not related to a vitamin D deficiency and you should follow up with a dermatologist about finasteride. If you worry about this day in and day out, you're going to drive yourself insane.

Okay. I'll visit one and ask him, if they can't determine the answer is probably in my own hands. It's just so sad, it doesn't run in my family. I can't name one bald family member or great family member really. Only one uncle so its very low..and even his son isn't balding.

But yeah, plan b is surgery if my donor area isn't scuffed. But that's it. I'll try minoxidil if finasteride sides are too bad.

 

[Lurker85]

I took finasteride for a few years and have been off it for about a year.

My libido barely changed. Hard to say if it changed at all or if I'm just having more sex now because of who I'm dating now compared to before. At my low point I was dating someone I wasn't attracted to, now I'm dating someone who I want to tear her clothes off every night.

Erection quality is a bit better. I get rock hard more often. On finasterid I stopped getting morning wood. Only time I straight up had ED was a night when I put too much topical RU5884 on, and another time when I microneedled then used RU58841. I'd say the erection quality change equated to about a half inch difference in size, which I consider to be a non-issue and it went back to normal within about 2 months of being off finasteride.

I have not noticed gyno, bone structure changes, or skin discoloration.

As far as how effective finasteride was... not very. I thought it was helping maintain, but now that I've been off it for a year, I don't think it was doing aa much as I thought. I didn't shed coming off oral finasteride, but I shed like hell switching from oral to topical minoxidil. Luckily it was only sides and back which shed, and that was a non issue since I have extremely thick hair in those regions.

Currently I'm using a laser helmet, topical minoxidil, topical RU5884, viviscal, microneedling, and massages.

 

[Stating facts]

Thank you Pigeon for your contribution. I really like that you discuss topics with studies and highlight the under research done on 5ari.

 

[user394587]

Recently found a good twitter account who researches PFS, etc. Some interesting stuff I didn't know:

Already knew the FDA was a joke but never ceases to amaze...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1409709906664464385

I've also never seen this study;

Finasteride use in the male infertility population: effects on semen and hormone parameters​

Conclusion(s): Finasteride, even at low doses, may cause reduced sperm counts in some men. In this population, counts improved dramatically for the majority of men after finasteride discontinuation. The hormone parameters, sperm motility, and sperm morphology were unchanged after cessation. Finasteride should be discontinued in subfertile men with oligospermia, and used with caution in men who desire fertility.

Finasteride use in the male infertility population: effects on semen and hormone parameters - PubMed

Finasteride, even at low doses, may cause reduced sperm counts in some men. In this population, counts improved dramatically for the majority of men after finasteride discontinuation. The hormone parameters, sperm motility, and sperm morphology were unchanged after cessation. Finasteride should...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Also in line with what other fina users experienced, only recently someone posted about these issues on reddit: https://www.gourmetstylewellness.com/interact/threads/influence-of-finasteride-on-sperm-from-reddit.133084/


And another extremely interesting study about DHT:

Is Dihydrotestosterone a Classic Hormone?

In 1968, Brochovsky and Wilson (1, 2) published the first two papers describing dihydrotestosterone (DHT). Wilson and colleagues (3) subsequently demonstrated t

academic.oup.com

Especially this part since many on fina like to cope with the lie that testoterone will take over every function from DHT if DHT is reduced/eliminated.

https://imgur.com/Er6aikw

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1411114513190076416

Just playing devil's advocate here, but this tweet...

"1. Long-term benefits of finasteride 1 mg for baldness are uncertain.
2. LT risks in younger men are unknown, esp. effects on fertility.
3. Risk-benefit analysis for LT therapy cannot be made at this time.

Decision: APPROVED"

Isn't this literally every medication that gets approved? Good luck getting funding and a statistically relevant sample size when you're trying to study a medication for 20+ years. I mean, what's the alternative to this statement? I guess it depends on what you consider "long-term". Are we talking 5 years, 10 years? More?

Also, in the study you posted regarding infertility, just to make sure we're on the same page..

The summarized results section is poorly worded, but it states "There was no change in hormone parameters, sperm motility, or sperm morphology." It shouldn't be misinterpreted that these parameters were reduced and then did not change after finasteride was discontinued. They could only assess this if semen parameters were measured prior to finasteride administration, and they weren't. The correct interpretation, which is very clear in the results section, is that these parameters were not effected by finasteride. The only parameters that were effected is sperm concentration/counts which resolved in the majority of men that discontinued finasteride.

Another nitpick; "There were 14 men who had a semen analysis while taking and after discontinuation of finasteride. Twelve of 14 men had a single semen analysis after finasteride discontinuation. Two of 14 men had two semen analyses after discontinuation; for these men, the two analyses were averaged". So the sample size was effectively 14, which is very low.

Regardless, I think there's enough evidence floating around that you should discontinue finasteride when you're trying to conceive.

 

[Chill dude]

I know this is against the general opinion but hear me out

(This is about sexual side effects)

You were exposed to your natural DHT levels for all your post puberty life. Depending on when you started finasteride you may have had more or less time reaping the benefits of DHT to your sexual organs. For those that are not aware DHT strengthens the smooth muscle in the penis and the muscles surrounding the penis (the Kegel muscles) AND also is very responsible for libido being that it is a much stronger androgen than finasteride.

Initially inhibiting DHT will not have much noticeable effect for most people as the penis tissues are already quite strong and are able to deliver sufficient bloodlfow. However, over time, it could be one or two or even 10 years depending on the person, the tissue that you built with DHT will begin to atrophy and get weaker and T alone will not be enough to sustain it. This is typically a very slow process and hence hard to notice. This is when the sexual sides will be less noticeable

Usually by this time you will have aged 5 or so years, if you started in your late 20s or early 30s, and you might think that this drop in erectile quality is normal. This can carry on for a few more years while you use Cialis or other remedies to "hold you over" but eventually they won't be enough.

Your Penis NEEDS DHT to function at 100%! There is no way around this. Anyone denying this is denying that androgens increase sex drive and sexual function. This is the equivalent of saying that some 60 year old man will not get a boost in erectile quality if they go on TRT w/ Proviron ed.


Here's an analogy to help you understand. You're on the highway and going 160, the speed limit is 100. You have more speed than you need. THEN you lift your foot of the gas by 60% and the car starts slowing down BUT as long as you're over a 100 it's not a problem and you won't really notice the negative effects. Once you go under a 100 that's when you will realize that it's problematic to inhibit over 60% of your bodies strongest androgen.

As for the studies which show that only 5% of people get side effects this is why that's not accurate. This is self reported sides and no man actually wants to believe that they have erectile dysfunction and after a couple of years on the drug with normal erectile function most men will not notice or attribute to finasteride the increased time it takes to achieve and erection or the decreased maximal maintainable erection strength.

If the studies were done by scientifically observing 1) The time it takes to achieve maximal erection with a normal stimuli, 2) The strength of the maximal level of maintainable erection during intercourse, and 3) How long the male is able to hold an erection without physical stimuli THEN they'd have to report that 80-90% of men have side effects especially after 5 years on the drug


Also, the bigger your penis the more likely you will be of experiencing serious ED issues down the line with finasterde as it has a much heavier demand of blodflow and thus an overall healthier penis. Someone who is 5 inches long needs much less blood flow to achieve a maximal erection than someone who is 7 inches long ( the blood flow needed per length of the penis is not a linear line but an exponential curve).

Anyone thinking you can have the same erectile function on finasteride as they did before it is a fool! The gap of 5 or so years makes worse erectile function harder to notice and/or attribute to finasteride but there is just no way around this fact: DHT is our most powerful androgen and it is 100% necessary for optimal penile function

Not me, I have kings blood.

I know this is against the general opinion but hear me out

(This is about sexual side effects)

You were exposed to your natural DHT levels for all your post puberty life. Depending on when you started finasteride you may have had more or less time reaping the benefits of DHT to your sexual organs. For those that are not aware DHT strengthens the smooth muscle in the penis and the muscles surrounding the penis (the Kegel muscles) AND also is very responsible for libido being that it is a much stronger androgen than finasteride.

Initially inhibiting DHT will not have much noticeable effect for most people as the penis tissues are already quite strong and are able to deliver sufficient bloodlfow. However, over time, it could be one or two or even 10 years depending on the person, the tissue that you built with DHT will begin to atrophy and get weaker and T alone will not be enough to sustain it. This is typically a very slow process and hence hard to notice. This is when the sexual sides will be less noticeable

Usually by this time you will have aged 5 or so years, if you started in your late 20s or early 30s, and you might think that this drop in erectile quality is normal. This can carry on for a few more years while you use Cialis or other remedies to "hold you over" but eventually they won't be enough.

Your Penis NEEDS DHT to function at 100%! There is no way around this. Anyone denying this is denying that androgens increase sex drive and sexual function. This is the equivalent of saying that some 60 year old man will not get a boost in erectile quality if they go on TRT w/ Proviron ed.


Here's an analogy to help you understand. You're on the highway and going 160, the speed limit is 100. You have more speed than you need. THEN you lift your foot of the gas by 60% and the car starts slowing down BUT as long as you're over a 100 it's not a problem and you won't really notice the negative effects. Once you go under a 100 that's when you will realize that it's problematic to inhibit over 60% of your bodies strongest androgen.

As for the studies which show that only 5% of people get side effects this is why that's not accurate. This is self reported sides and no man actually wants to believe that they have erectile dysfunction and after a couple of years on the drug with normal erectile function most men will not notice or attribute to finasteride the increased time it takes to achieve and erection or the decreased maximal maintainable erection strength.

If the studies were done by scientifically observing 1) The time it takes to achieve maximal erection with a normal stimuli, 2) The strength of the maximal level of maintainable erection during intercourse, and 3) How long the male is able to hold an erection without physical stimuli THEN they'd have to report that 80-90% of men have side effects especially after 5 years on the drug


Also, the bigger your penis the more likely you will be of experiencing serious ED issues down the line with finasterde as it has a much heavier demand of blodflow and thus an overall healthier penis. Someone who is 5 inches long needs much less blood flow to achieve a maximal erection than someone who is 7 inches long ( the blood flow needed per length of the penis is not a linear line but an exponential curve).

Anyone thinking you can have the same erectile function on finasteride as they did before it is a fool! The gap of 5 or so years makes worse erectile function harder to notice and/or attribute to finasteride but there is just no way around this fact: DHT is our most powerful androgen and it is 100% necessary for optimal penile function

not to this guy, I have KINGS blood

 

[Baldingat188]

Wow just found this thread and it has me a bit freaked out.. I’m a 23 year old who has been taking finasteride for 4.5 years. Honestly my sex drive has been so low latley it’s basically eunuch levels. I never wanted to blame the finasteride but I do feel like that is affecting me sexually. What can I even do at this point? If I quit finasteride I will risk getting PFS and also losing my hair. I honestly feel like I may be better off with hair and no sexual ability rather than the other way around. At least with hair I can go into public and function ( although I’m depressed). Without hair I think I may be worse off.

 

[Stating facts]

I think you are young and naive (in a positive way) to think that keeping hair is a trade off for better. Believe me, in the long run you will start valuing your personality, confidence and maybe companionship without hair as well.

The decision is hard, and should be only made by you, but I am just sharing through experience.

Cheers!

 

[Baldingat188]

Thanks for your opinion. I don’t consider myself a vain person so I do value other things but the problem is I would look terrible without hair. I know everyone says that but I truly don’t think I would be able to function in society. I would have to go the hair piece route and that seems like a large burden to maintain. I guess I probably do need to quit finasteride at some point just to see if my sex drive comes back. Cause currently I just feel asexual and it makes me depressed because I still want companionship.

 

[Stating facts]

Thanks for your opinion. I don’t consider myself a vain person so I do value other things but the problem is I would look terrible without hair. I know everyone says that but I truly don’t think I would be able to function in society. I would have to go the hair piece route and that seems like a large burden to maintain. I guess I probably do need to quit finasteride at some point just to see if my sex drive comes back. Cause currently I just feel asexual and it makes me depressed because I still want companionship.

Everyone, trust me everyone thinks when they start losing it that they will look terrible without hair. But once they lose it to a stage that buzz cut or shave is the only option, then comes the peace of mind by buzzing or shaving it. It's a process and don't go through it unless you are ready.
I personally took oral dutasteride as I was afraid as well, but eventually made the decision of not letting hair loss medications ruin my entire life ahead.

 

[user394587]

Thanks for your opinion. I don’t consider myself a vain person so I do value other things but the problem is I would look terrible without hair. I know everyone says that but I truly don’t think I would be able to function in society. I would have to go the hair piece route and that seems like a large burden to maintain. I guess I probably do need to quit finasteride at some point just to see if my sex drive comes back. Cause currently I just feel asexual and it makes me depressed because I still want companionship.

It's a difficult decision. You might want to also examine other things in your life as well. IE, are you sedentary, overweight, are you getting enough sleep, are you stressed, are you taking any other medications that can lower your libido (IE SSRIs), what are your testosterone and E2 levels, so on and so forth.

Finasteride is obviously not your friend when it comes to libido, but many other things can lower it. I've found that my libido decreased a lot naturally from when I was 19 to 27, and this was without any medication.

If you don't have any other factors that you could attribute to low libido, you'll need to weigh the pros and cons. You could also get a buzz cut to see how your head shape actually looks like, and this may influence your decision. If you're feeling like an eunuch at 23 years old and there's nothing else you can attribute to such a low libido, you're probably better off without finasteride in your life.

 

[Baldingat188]

Everyone, trust me everyone thinks when they start losing it that they will look terrible without hair. But once they lose it to a stage that buzz cut or shave is the only option, then comes the peace of mind by buzzing or shaving it. It's a process and don't go through it unless you are ready.
I personally took oral dutasteride as I was afraid as well, but eventually made the decision of not letting hair loss medications ruin my entire life ahead.

If there was any chance I could even look reasonably presentable with a shaved head I would definitely do that option. I am a pretty extreme case (pale skin, very thin). I would go from about a 5-6/10 to a 2/10 attractiveness wise. I mean that in an objective way also. I know everyone tends to be their own worst critic but I have shown some members on here my picture and that they have confirmed my beleifs.

It's a difficult decision. You might want to also examine other things in your life as well. IE, are you sedentary, overweight, are you getting enough sleep, are you stressed, are you taking any other medications that can lower your libido (IE SSRIs), what are your testosterone and E2 levels, so on and so forth.

Finasteride is obviously not your friend when it comes to libido, but many other things can lower it. I've found that my libido decreased a lot naturally from when I was 19 to 27, and this was without any medication.

If you don't have any other factors that you could attribute to low libido, you'll need to weigh the pros and cons. You could also get a buzz cut to see how your head shape actually looks like, and this may influence your decision. If you're feeling like an eunuch at 23 years old and there's nothing else you can attribute to such a low libido, you're probably better off without finasteride in your life.

I have had my T checked and it was 430 so not great but still in the acceptable range. Other than that I am not over weight , I eat healthy, and get good sleep. I do take a medication for depression but I specifically avoid SSRIS due to the sexual sides. I’m taking a med called Wellbutrin which is supposed to increase sex drive but I haven’t had that benefit.

 

[user394587]

If there was any chance I could even look reasonably presentable with a shaved head I would definitely do that option. I am a pretty extreme case (pale skin, very thin). I would go from about a 5-6/10 to a 2/10 attractiveness wise. I mean that in an objective way also. I know everyone tends to be their own worst critic but I have shown some members on here my picture and that they have confirmed my beleifs.


I have had my T checked and it was 430 so not great but still in the acceptable range. Other than that I am not over weight , I eat healthy, and get good sleep. I do take a medication for depression but I specifically avoid SSRIS due to the sexual sides. I’m taking a med called Wellbutrin which is supposed to increase sex drive but I haven’t had that benefit.

You might want to check out your E2 (estradiol) levels. If they're too low or too high, you can encounter similar issues.

Regardless, if you go off the drug for a few weeks up until 2 months, you very likely won't lose any ground. Might be a good idea to see how you feel off of it for a bit.

 

[Will Be an Egg in 5 years]

It still is the best treatment option

deal with it

 

[ihatebackstabbers]

If you are a good responder to finasteride than you can halt your hair loss and regrow your recently miniaturized hair which will grow back stronger. Most people halt their hair loss soon after starting the med. Others will still lose hair but at a much slower pace than they would have if they didn't start taking it. The vast majority of people that take finasteride don't have any side effects. If you do then you could try lowering the dosage or skip days before stopping completely. My older brother didn't want to take finasteride when I starting taking it because of all the fear mongering about it. He started taking finasteride last year at 5 times the dose that I take because of his prostate. How ironic is that?

 

[Stating facts]

This thread is about discussing the under research done on 5ari, largely finasteride. 90% of people consider just the sexual sides as the only sides while being on that drug, and many easily do a trade off with it just because of hair. The sides on other body functions, example liver (ALT, AST levels in the long run) , are largely overlooked by majority, and here we present studies that showcase it.

Agreed that it is the only drug available in the market but it is not God send which people highly claim about.

 

[Norwoody]

I will say that there are definitely some people out there with minor levels of hair loss that could suffice on regimens that include minoxidil, needling, and topical AAs. Finasteride might be overkill for some of the lower Norwood guys on here, and they probably wouldn't need to take that risk. One of the issues is the matter of convenience of taking a pill versus having the discipline to stick to a mainly topical regimen. Sure, some people will continue to lose on minoxidil alone, but why not at least use it as a starting point, especially if you are a low Norwood? Some will say that the problem is that you can never get off minoxidil, you'll lose all your gains, etc. Well, no matter how you treat it, if you do have progressive hair loss, you have to stay on those treatments in order for them to keep working regardless of the medication - this is not exclusive to minoxidil. If you gained hair on keto shampoo, you have to keep taking it to maintain those gains, so the treatment doesn't matter. At the end of the day, the goal is to help restore blood and nutrients so that the follicle can continue to live, and there are a few ways of accomplishing this. Being on both finasteride and minoxidil obviously addresses two ways of doing this, reinforces the chances for maintenance, and usually results in at least some minor regrowth for the average user. But a few guys out there might maintain for a long time by only using one pathway. I am not saying that this will work for everyone, or that this will work forever. I am saying that it is worth a shot, and often many guys throw the kitchen sink at everything when they could be just fine if they began with a more conservative approach.

 

[user394587]

I will say that there are definitely some people out there with minor levels of hair loss that could suffice on regimens that include minoxidil, needling, and topical AAs. Finasteride might be overkill for some of the lower Norwood guys on here, and they probably wouldn't need to take that risk. One of the issues is the matter of convenience of taking a pill versus having the discipline to stick to a mainly topical regimen. Sure, some people will continue to lose on minoxidil alone, but why not at least use it as a starting point, especially if you are a low Norwood? Some will say that the problem is that you can never get off minoxidil, you'll lose all your gains, etc. Well, no matter how you treat it, if you do have progressive hair loss, you have to stay on those treatments in order for them to keep working regardless of the medication - this is not exclusive to minoxidil. If you gained hair on keto shampoo, you have to keep taking it to maintain those gains, so the treatment doesn't matter. At the end of the day, the goal is to help restore blood and nutrients so that the follicle can continue to live, and there are a few ways of accomplishing this. Being on both finasteride and minoxidil obviously addresses two ways of doing this, reinforces the chances for maintenance, and usually results in at least some minor regrowth for the average user. But a few guys out there might maintain for a long time by only using one pathway. I am not saying that this will work for everyone, or that this will work forever. I am saying that it is worth a shot, and often many guys throw the kitchen sink at everything when they could be just fine if they began with a more conservative approach.

The problem with minoxidil is that there's no evidence that anyone with even moderately aggressive hair loss can maintain on it in the long term. In fact, there's evidence to the contrary. We have several studies on finasteride that examine maintenance in the majority of men taking it over the span of 10 years.

Effectively with minoxidil you're making the gamble that you haven't inherited anything beyond a NW4 and you have at most mildly aggressive hair loss.

There's also another problem with minoxidil in that we don't know how it functions. With finasteride, if a better treatment came along, it would more than likely be possible to switch to that treatment and maintain the hair you've gained on finasteride. I don't think the same thing can be said for minoxidil.

A last point to consider is that the long term (10 years) studies on finasteride clearly show that the earlier you start the drug, the better results you get.