Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[bridgeburn]

I read all the posts, it takes me 3 days, several hours to read it

wow, impressive!! maybe i should publish all the pages of the thread into a book hahaha

Do you think we can build muscles and try this regime ? Sorry I'm a noob

yeah, If you work out twice as hard and more often.. but It takes months and up to 2 to 3 years for max muscle loss with this type of regimen

I don't know how we can thank you for all the time you spent to answer and write your knowledge.
Very pleased to read this kind of posts

Your praise is my reward

 

[Ziggyz123]

ehh you might wanna lay off the dutasteride a little.. sounds like you've got tolerance to it. Its probably just taxing your liver at this point.

I have cypro coming so I’m going to be on a low dose of that, but idk. I think my body is starting to reject these meds because I feel like sh*t after that spironolactone break out. Could be my liver.

I’m waiting on the private forum to fill a large group buy so I can get on seti again to try that for a few months. If anyone wants in on that lemme know by the way. $220 per 25grams.

 

[Guido]

Hi, how are you? A question 6 months ago that I take 17 beta estradiol and I keep losing my hair I fall a lot ... can you tell me if this type of estrogen is negative for the hair? which one I need to use ... ethylene tetradiol ??

 

[bridgeburn]

Hi, how are you? A question 6 months ago that I take 17 beta estradiol and I keep losing my hair I fall a lot ... can you tell me if this type of estrogen is negative for the hair? which one I need to use ... ethylene tetradiol ??

I've seen your pics, you are not losing hair lol

 

[Guido]

in the shower I lose 100 hair ...

 

[bridgeburn]

in the shower I lose 100 hair ...

so does every women in the world.. it's normal

 

[Guido]

[QUOTE = "bridgeburn, post: 1766352, miembro: 130663"] He visto tus fotos, no estás perdiendo cabello lol [/ QUOTE]
Help me

 

[Guido]

gracias a bridgeburner ... leí todos sus comentarios ... tengo fe en su régimen ... haré lo mismo por las dudas

 

[bridgeburn]

Drinking it would not have any effect on liver?

of course it would, what goes to your stomach will go to your liver. Hormones, food, etc. almost everything is processed by liver eventually.
min isn't dangerous for the liver though.. Hell, sugar is f*****g terrible for the liver. a little worse than alcohol.

@bridgeburn what if I take diane 35 pill along with spironolactone.

that would be good (for hair). Diane is strong. it will reduce T, but 1 pill won't go to castrate ranges. 2 to 3 pills per day, spread out can.

 

[bridgeburn]

But even if you watch old movies, there were no bald ones at 20.

The same can be said for today.. c'mon man, the better looking people are more likely to be selected to star in movies. That's why it seems there's more cases. Baldies are selected to play the role of villain or loser characters. Characters in 20's won't be chosen for a movie if they have pre mature balding in any cinematic era.

I do not argue that testosterone harms or does not harm hair. I see that my hrt (ESTRO, DUTA, PROGEST) works too. But how then to comment on this?

https://www.hairloss-research.org/UpdateTestosterone4-10.html

https://www.gourmetstylewellness.com/interact/threads/a-closer-look-at-b-p-h-prostate-cancer.45227/
especially the first link

It makes total sense to me that there is a correlation between higher T and lower DHT.. look, T turns into DHT, when T turns into DHT then of course T is lowered. If there's lower 5ar then there's also higher T. finasteride and dutasteride increase T through that way and they are clinical approved for hairloss.. That does not mean that T is good for hair. Raising T through the lowering of DHT is good for hair because DHT is stronger than T and despite the increase of T, you are in a better position than where you were before.

high DHT, low T= bad for hair, low DHT, high T= better, low T, low DHT, high E= good

Regarding the second link. Its saying that estradiol has some effect on prostate proliferation and could make prostate cancer worse? Macho grande was trying to argue estrogen as the main culprit. Bryan posted one study which was a counterpoint:

"Estrogen reduction by aromatase inhibition for benign prostatic hyperplasia: results of a double-blind, placebo-controlled, randomized clinical trial using two doses of the aromatase-inhibitor atamestane."
Radlmaier A, Eickenberg HU, Fletcher MS, Fourcade RO, Reis Santos JM, van Aubel OG, Bono AV.

Department of Clinical Development Oncology, Schering AG, Berlin, Germany.

BACKGROUND: The concept of estrogen withdrawal by an aromatase inhibitor in the treatment of benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) was assessed in a prospective, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled multicenter trial. METHODS: Two hundred and ninety-two patients with clinical symptoms of BPH were randomly allocated to one of the following treatments for 48 weeks: placebo or the selective aromatase inhibitor, atamestane, at a daily dose of 100 mg or 300 mg. Both doses of atamestane significantly reduced serum concentrations of estradiol and estrone, and produced a slight, dose-dependent, counter-regulatory increase in peripheral androgen concentration. RESULTS: Clinical symptoms improved during treatment in all three groups. Even after 48 weeks, the effect of active treatment did not exceed the effect seen with placebo. Overall tolerance of 100 mg atamestane was excellent, but 300 mg showed a slightly increased incidence of side effects compared with placebo. CONCLUSIONS: The conclusion from this study is that the reduction in estrogen concentration using the selective aromatase inhibitor atamestane has no effect on clinically established BPH.

Still the thread seemed to show that estradiol can maintain some prostate size, which I'm honestly glad, cause I don't want to have any T or DHT and it'd probably be disastrous if the prostate shrunk to nothing.. And obviously DHT is way worse for prostate, cause finasteride and dutasteride are drugs used to treat BPH, despite the fact that they raise estradiol to some degree.

Can progesterone be used instead of cyproterone, for example, utrogestan 100 mg 1 tablet 2 times a week? will he work like tsiproteron?

Progesterone doesn't have all the same effects of cypro. Progesterone doesn't block the androgen receptor. High amounts should have some antigonadotrophin abilities through PR activation such as cypro does. But cypro can do this with much lower amounts cause its really alot stronger. Progesterone is good, to lower 5ar since it utilizes to make neurosteriods. Something which cypro doesn't do.
And of course progesterone is safer.

You couldn't replace totally cypro with progesterone alone and you'd need more than 2 tablets a week.. I think taking some spironolactone to block receptor, high amounts of P and a little E would give a sorta similar replacement. (blocked receptor + Anti-gnhr + PR activation).

Can progesterone completely replace estradiol? Will there be osteoporosis?

No, it can't. We need estradiol to maintain bones. even men with high amounts of T but take aromatase inhibitors like letro get bone and joint problems.. unless you can guareentee enough P turns into E, it can't replace. Also, estradiol is a strong anti-gonadotrophin.

 

[bridgeburn]

hello georgie, here in Spain a doctor of hair transplantation dr Freitas advises maximum 0.5 mg X2 dutasteride a week and always finasteridde daily, since dutasteride elevates too much testosterone, and you will fall a lot of hair for that.

Angie I would take oral minoxidil with spironolactone to reduce the accumulation of fluids

Who are you talking to?????!

 

[bridgeburn]

I heard about the use of an anti-aromatase (amiridex) to avoid the undesirable effects of the use of spironolactone

What do you think? is it used if combined with cypro?

hairloss is a known side effect of amiridex, tamoxifen, letrozole and exemestane.

 

[bridgeburn]

you could try to straighten your hair ;-)

i am curious how it looks


i am on long straight hair now (from curly)..
it is much eary-care.. ;-)

No way! I like my natural curly hair.. And I am in Asia, no one else has hair like mine. I am exotic. I will keep growing it until long springy hair

 

[bridgeburn]

The girth of you neck looks very small. Is it the effect of hrt?

I didn't check before and after, but I've always been naturally small framed. my wrists for example are pretty tiny for a man.

 

[bridgeburn]

How bad is your gyno now after two years?

it hasn't been 2 years yet.. but about 1 year and a half.. gyno is squishy, big puffy nipples,continuously developing. basically little boobs.

 

[Obsessive]

Yes there's lots of positive experiences. but honestly lets be realistic. don't expect a miracle. Some people don't respond to ANYTHING. finasteride, dutasteride, cyproterone, estradiol. no matter.. and many of the ones that do respond don't always post about it and usually become less active. naturally, the ones that don't will post more.

now please keep these thoughts in mind：

-There are even many Mtf's that don't regrow. many do but also many don't. Ive always seen however that it at least doesn't get any worse. Balding is halted in worst case scenario and regrown in best case. Many on this thread claim that they still lose hair even on AAs but never show pics. I've never seen a before and after MTF transition where hairloss progressed. Of course there are many cases where regrowth does happen for transwomen and these get more attention so everybody expects estrogen to guarantee a miracle.. It's possible, It's not guarenteed.

- It is very very hard to regrow long lost hair. especially temples and especially slick bald temples.. but don't understand me wrong. I believe my method gives the best chance for regrowth. But the regrown hair cannot be expected to be exactly the same as it once was. Mine slowly gets more cosmetically noticeable, but even then it grows slower than Normal hair.. It is still recovering even after a year and a half of hormones.. and I take higher doses than most on this thread. the places that were slick bald are like this, the diffusion which was all over the top is normal hair again. But without T / DHT and with high E its absolutely great to know my condition can only get better and not worse.

- There is a competition between E and DHT and the previous years of androgen exposure gives DHT an advantage. Hair which has been dead is not normal hair, its injured. Someone injured can't take a hit as well as someone not injured. I can jump up and down right now without any problem, zero pain. If I sprain my ankle and try a simple small jump then its excruciating pain!!! Something which causes zero damage can cause huge damage when you're already hurt. thats why I believe in the suppression of testosterone in addition to DHT.. finasteride does not removed 100% DHT, It remove what, 70 ish percent by plasma?? maybe 50% in the scalp? I don't know the exact numbers but my point is why f*** with finasteride when dutasteride inhibits more!! If you take estradiol, but not enough to Lower Testosterone in your body and 5ar is produced locally in the scalp then what good is it... REMOVE all that 5ar that you can or there will be antagonization of E and of hair.

1 nM finasteride inhibits DHT synthesis in derma papillae by 86%. (in incubated biopsies) 100nM Estradiol inhibits 60% DHT in DP. Thats 100x the amount of finasteride to get 60% inhibition.. Of course If you were to fill your whole body with estradiol then thats another story and would likely dramatically reduce DHT, it would also reduce testosterone and can do so into castrate range.. But it is unclear how E does inhibit 5ar. they think it inhibits indirectly by affecting androgen metabolism. If this is the case then there should be some synergy with finasteride, or dutasteride which have dose response curves. combining 2 or more mechanisms of methods against DHT is a good strategy.

- The dose matters.. and there is a sh*t ton of individual variation. Some can respond with lower amounts. Some people respond to just finasteride while other keep losing hair on it.. some have regrown with spironolactone. But most need something stronger than spironolactone I believe. And Women get better hair with increased anagen during pregnancy. Really think about that. non pregnant women have high estradiol already compared to men.. yet going from high E to very high E gives better hair!! It may not only be the amount contributing but that the levels are going up consistently keeping more consistent anagen..and people on this thread usually don't even take trans-level doses as I do.



- Don't let even 1 molecule of DHT form!!!! my previous points tie into this.. It is very hard to regrow hair. the hair is injured therefore more sensitive, needs more of a boost. And I am sad to say but even though it is possible to regrow hair there is likely a point of no return.. HRT can give back 5 to 10 years of hair but even then its no guareentee.. If you really want your hair back, I suggest throwing everything that you f*****g can at it and don't hold back. Yes, add an androgen receptor blocker. You'd require way less estradiol when receptors are blocked and without antagonization of androgens. In the beginning i was on 100mg cypo, and a small amount of estrogel on temples.. if i took even a small amount of estrogen I felt it in the nipples.. Blocked receptors are a powerful thing even women and eunuchs don't have Blocked receptors..

Cyproterone is stronger than spironolactone, thats why I used cypro. dutasteride is stronger than finasteride , choose dutasteride. If you want to f*** around with weaker stuff, and it doesn't work then go to something stronger..and keep going until max you are willing to go.. use Estradiol pill combined with the gel.. The pill gives a higher initial E spike and the gel gives more stable levels.. Its good to combine these pros and cons.. Take higher amounts if you need. Choose oral minoxidil over topical.. be patient, I don't think you've used this stuff too long. give it at least 3 to 6 months then assess.. if higher estradiol doesn't work out, Consider Ethynlestradiol, found in Diane-35, EthynE is stronger at activating E receptors than estradiol. (though one study showed estradiol inhibits 5ar while EE doesn't.) some have regrown hair with that. (like that notorious Thai boy, Twohen).. pros and cons, thats why I take estradiol everyday and pop a Diane -35 once a week.

keep going agressively.. Don't even think about getting your hopes up unless you fight with everything you got. Humanity goes to the moon before curing baldness.. If you don't respond to all above then you probably need stem cells. Estradiol interects with stem cells in the follicles. Now consider more for the future: progesterone, topical hydrocortisone, dermaneedling, estrofem, estrogel, cyproterone, dutasteride, oral min, topical min, Diane-35, topical Dexamethasone. All of that has synergy. Combine all that and you'll get better.

Wow!! Thank you Bridgey for all of this! I really appreciate you sharing all of your knowledge with us. I am still less than 6 months on my regimen and have been on 5 mg oral minoxidil for ~ 3 weeks (previously topical for 4 years). If I could just see a couple velus hairs in hairline or temples I think I could stop agonizing But none yet I do want to follow your program but in a stepwise fashion, in hopes of finding the sweet spot. A majority of my loss is within the last year, so I don't want to lose my window of opportunity for regrowth. Based on your advice, maybe the next best thing to add would be dutasteride, once or twice a week, with finasteride on non-dutasteride days? My fear with dutasteride is that it will accelerate frontal loss either from androgen receptor upregulation or increased T. So I'm hestitant to use it every day. Still, since T is weaker than DHT at androgen receptor, I don't know why more T and less DHT would not be an improvement for hair.

If I'm going incrementally towards your regimen, should the next addition (already using E, finasteride, oral min) be dutasteride, cypro, or spironolactone. Thanks for giving us hope

 

[bridgeburn]

current left temple status



before + after

 

[LEXUS]

I canceled progesterone. From him, very strange sensations, I thought my head would explode. Never again. And now I also take only 1 capsule of avodart and estradiol. So far the hair does not fall out. Maybe Avodart completely cancel. Estradiol is also anti-androgen, but it needs a lot to make it like AA.

 

[likemike]

on the long run, progesterone gave me a more comfortable feeling in my body
now i am on 100mg every eving/daily
only the first weeks are heavy

with Estrogen, Cyproteron, Finasteride

DHEA is over and out.. not anymore

 

[Father_of_Shiseido]

@likemike ; Are you a transgender?