Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[keepcoolmybabies]

I think they both drop

"Estrogen and progesterone levels decline dramatically after you give birth. In fact, hormone levels return to their pre-pregnancy levels within 24 hours after giving birth. Your body dials down estrogen further while you’re nursing because estrogen can interfere with milk production."

https://www.healthline.com/health/postpartum-vaginal-dryness#postpartum-thyroiditis

You may be correct. Though I've read conflicting info, including that while they both drop, estrogen can stay elevated for 6-8 weeks.

 

[bridgeburn]

I'm not sure what this means exactly, but it might be that estradiol and progesterone are synergistic in terms of hair:

"The association of ER and growth factor receptors including their second messengers has been widely accepted. Just a few important genes regulated by ERs, which also are recognized for their involvement in hair growth control, are listed here as examples: progesterone receptor, EGFR, several growth factors like IGF-I, TGF-α and TGF-β, cathepsin D, and several protooncogenes (e.g., c-fos, c-myc, and c-jun), as well as an array of heat shock proteins (295–297). Some of these factors are capable of nonclassical ER activation through modifications such as phosphorylation (298)."

" Candidates of estrogen target genes with relevance to pilosebaceous biology that are activated without ERE promoter include IGF-I, collagenase, EGF, EGFR, and cyclin D1 (261, 263). Instead, progesterone receptor, prolactin, and lactoferrin are examples of relevant target genes in the pilosebaceous unit with consensus EREs (263–265)."

 

[bridgeburn]

You may be correct. Though I keep reading conflicting info, including that while they both drop, estrogen can stay elevated for 6-8 weeks.

probably P drops towards the end of pregnancy then the estrogen dominance stimulates labor and the E drops (perhaps more gradually) after labor.

 

[Father_of_Shiseido]

I know this will fall on deaf ears for the most part, as I know from the last several pages that many of you have no compassion for trans people (or "transgenders" as you often call us).

I am reduced to setting a date in which to kill myself. It will be six months after my next and probably final possible FUT hair transplant, so February 2020.

I would do it now, but I might as well suffer through these next few months on the hope that the surgery does enough good as the surgeons tell me it will (though, burned once by another clinic, I no longer trust surgeons).

My hair is f*****g awful.
So thin all over the top, especially on the crown and hairline.

I have been told to stop taking so much oestrogen as I have oestrogen levels beyond that of a pregnant woman. I am also going to be moved onto a testosterone blocking implant to block every last bit of testosterone for a few years (even though I have virtually none anyway - the Doctor says she has seen physically castrated trans women with higher testosterone than me), so please don't suggest bica or more oestrogen because I am already so far ahead of all of you on those fronts.

Any other suggestions?
Minoxidil just makes my head burn. And I noticed nothing but faster body and face hair growth with oral minoxidil which pushes me towards suicide for different reasons anyway.

I am so tired of being told that I have a "great ***, feminine hips, soft face, soft voice, big lips" etc when none of that matters. As soon as I walk around London with my ***, hips, face, and lips still all wearing make-up and female clothes with pronounced breasts, if I am not wearing my wig (as I am not ahead of surgery next week) then I am called "sir".

Wigs are painful and life limiting. I can't exercise in them, I can't sleep in them, and it is awkward as f*** when their dislodged during sex. I can't go back to just relying on wigs after being tricked into spending £20k on hair treatments and surgery.

I bought concealing fibres to help me get through this pre surgery (and post surgery) wigless period, but apparently they are not great for my seborrheic dermatitis. Yay!

My hair seems to be falling out with vengeance now. It's hard to say whether that has made any cosmetic difference, though looking at my washed hair in the mirror and seeing gaps has left me to suspect that it has got worse compared to one month ago. I showered with baby shampoo last night and the hair catcher was filled with a large clump of the stuff. I gently combed afterwards for my seborrheic dermatitis, with a wide toothed afro comb and it was still covered in hairs. I look at my pillow this morning and it is covered in hairs.

I don't want to live like this.
I don't see any man wanting to settle down with me like this and start a family, and I don't see myself as being a responsible mother if I considered adopting a child anyway whilst feeling this suicidal. Also, my family hate me for being trans so it doesn't hurt them if I did. My friends will no doubt be pissed, but I can't live purely because I don't want them to feel bad.

I can't live with the guilt that I caused this by not transitioning soon enough despite knowing I was always trans, or the guilt that I could have tried s glued hair system if only I hadn't had transplant surgery (I now have too much hair for that, apparently). I have tried a weave. It was super expensive and painful and I hated it anyway.

So, I don't really see that much point in living with my deck as it stands.

So -- Feb 2020, evaluate, jump from suspension bridge (I would put a gun in my mouth, but guns are hard to come by in this country - generally a great thing, btw).

Any last advice?

It is merely a manifestation of depression. You better treat it. Life is much more than just the hairs. Usually, men don't wear wigs because if someone detects it, he will instantly recognise that the person has lost his hair. But it's not the case with women. Many women with a full head of hairs wear wigs of different colours and style. This gives them an instant result, and it is acceptable in society as well. For example, Kate Perry. You are a transwoman and you can justify wearing a wig.

 

[Father_of_Shiseido]

@EmmaS : We are a lot alike, HRT failed me too (even my ***), but patience is the key. Suicide is the last resort. You must be too young to even consider that.

One shall never resort to suicide for hair loss.

 

[keepcoolmybabies]

probably P drops towards the end of pregnancy then the estrogen dominance stimulates labor and the E drops (perhaps more gradually) after labor.

Think that may indeed be the case.

"Progesterone levels rise significantly in the beginning of pregnancy. Estrogen levels increase during pregnancy and are highest before labor. Scientists now think that labour begins when estrogen becomes the dominant hormone.
Almost immediately after delivery of the placenta progesterone levels return to what they were pre-pregnancy. Estrogen levels after pregnancy remain at the same high level, resulting in what is called estrogen dominance.Typically, symptoms related to hormone imbalance should be prevalent for a few weeks after delivery."

 

[Ikarus]

@EmmaS I honestly do think you should give oral minoxidil a shot, even though it will lead to dysphoric issues regarding facial/body hair. It’s the lesser of two evils, especially if hair loss is making you suicidal. It would be best to try that, whilst combating the facial/body hair with consistent sessions of laser hair removal. Along with that, your estrogen levels are bait for continuing hair loss. Your body is most likely not tolerating such high levels of estrogen, our bodies aren’t made for such significant levels of E. That could be leading to an opposite reaction.

 

[Ikarus]

It is merely a manifestation of depression. You better treat it. Life is much more than just the hairs. Usually, men don't wear wigs because if someone detects it, he will instantly recognise that the person has lost his hair. But it's not the case with women. Many women with a full head of hairs wear wigs of different colours and style. This gives them an instant result, and it is acceptable in society as well. For example, Kate Perry. You are a transwoman and you can justify wearing a wig.

I agree. Wigs have become unbelievably advanced nowadays, and most celebrities opt for lace-front wigs. I am thinking of purchasing a lace-front wig soon, since it has always been my dream to have long hair...

 

[bridgeburn]

I am so tired of being told that I have a "great ***, feminine hips, soft face, soft voice, big lips" etc when none of that matters. As soon as I walk around London with my ***, hips, face, and lips still all wearing make-up and female clothes with pronounced breasts, if I am not wearing my wig (as I am not ahead of surgery next week) then I am called "sir".

Women with hairloss exist. As do women with polycystic ovary syndrome, hirsutism, etc. They are still considered women. Not every cis-woman has a great *** or feminine hips, boobs, etc. be grateful for what you have, don't stop trying to get more though it may be far in the future. It's more important how you perceive yourself than what other people call you

 

[Member 139756]

Women with hairloss exist. As do women with polycystic ovary syndrome, hirsutism, etc. They are still considered women. Not every cis-woman has a great *** or feminine hips, boobs, etc. be grateful for what you have, don't stop trying to get more though it may be far in the future. It's more important how you perceive yourself than what other people call you

All true, but when most people see women with hair loss they don't think of them less as women. As in, they still know that they are biologically female.

When people, and me myself, see me with advanced hair loss, I am thought of as male.

So, get prostesterone 100mg tablets daily and drink oral minoxidil 2ml daily...
Should that be the next step for me?
Is 2ml still too little?

 

[keepcoolmybabies]

So, get prostesterone 100mg tablets daily and drink oral minoxidil 2ml daily...
Should that be the next step for me?

I would still recommend lowering your E dosage if you haven't already planned to. I know it seems counterintuitive and I was hesitant to lower mine when out of range, but there's likely a reason cis women's estradiol isn't permanently sky high, not to mention the potential for adverse health effects even apart from hair loss. Obviously you and your docs call though.

 

[Derelict]

All true, but when most people see women with hair loss they don't think of them less as women. As in, they still know that they are biologically female.

When people, and me myself, see me with advanced hair loss, I am thought of as male.

So, get prostesterone 100mg tablets daily and drink oral minoxidil 2ml daily...
Should that be the next step for me?
Is 2ml still too little?

2ml of minoxidil is 100mg, the maximum dsoage for hypertension, far too much, if your body is used to large dosages stick to between 10mg and 20mg.

 

[I'mme]

All true, but when most people see women with hair loss they don't think of them less as women. As in, they still know that they are biologically female.

When people, and me myself, see me with advanced hair loss, I am thought of as male.

So, get prostesterone 100mg tablets daily and drink oral minoxidil 2ml daily...
Should that be the next step for me?
Is 2ml still too little?

Yes, an ideal regimen for arrest of hair loss and most possibility of regrowth.

DHT - Dutasteride. (Finasteride if AA is Spironolactone.)

Anti-androgen - Spironolactone 300mg/bicalutamide 50mg. (Bicalutamide preferred in your case)

Growth stimulant - Topical minoxidil (if 5% didn't work then 10% - if possible with topci Finasteride) ; Minoxidil oral 20mg (start with 10mg though).

Estrogen as your doctor says.

Don't take Spironolactone and oral minoxidil together, especially in high doses.

 

[Ikarus]

All true, but when most people see women with hair loss they don't think of them less as women. As in, they still know that they are biologically female.

When people, and me myself, see me with advanced hair loss, I am thought of as male.

So, get prostesterone 100mg tablets daily and drink oral minoxidil 2ml daily...
Should that be the next step for me?
Is 2ml still too little?

You are from the U.K., so I am guessing you will get the liquid minoxidil from Boots (the one with the dropper). That one has 20mg of minoxidil per ml, so you would use 0.5ml ideally.

 

[Member 139756]

I just did a light pull test on the hair at the top of the back of my neck (i.e. the bottom of my hair).

The following came out.

What the f***?!

 

[Ikarus]

Yes, an ideal regimen for arrest of hair loss and most possibility of regrowth.

DHT - Dutasteride. (Finasteride if AA is Spironolactone.)

Anti-androgen - Spironolactone 300mg/bicalutamide 50mg. (Bicalutamide preferred in your case)

Growth stimulant - Topical minoxidil (if 5% didn't work then 10% - if possible with topci Finasteride) ; Minoxidil oral 20mg (start with 10mg though).

Estrogen as your doctor says.

Don't take Spironolactone and oral minoxidil together, especially in high doses.

Actually, using a low-dose of spironolactone along with oral minoxidil is recommendable since it counteracts water retention. Nonetheless, she should continue with her estrogen injections but with a lower dose, along with using progesterone and oral minoxidil, and spironolactone at a low-dose if the water retention becomes noticeable.

 

[I'mme]

Actually, using a low-dose of spironolactone along with oral minoxidil is recommendable since it counteracts water retention. Nonetheless, she should continue with her estrogen injections but with a lower dose, along with using progesterone and oral minoxidil, and spironolactone at a low-dose if the water retention becomes noticeable.

Yes, but she wants regrowth and is suicidal, so she gotta choose spironolactone for hair issues not merely as a diuretic. I said spironolactone is preferred because both lowers blood pressure and she would feel seriously tired and dizzy if she takes say 20mg minoxidil and 200mg spironolactone together.

What I've learned through this journey is that giving treatments the time of 3 hair matter more than the extremism of treatments.

 

[Ikarus]

Yes, but she wants regrowth and is suicidal, so she gotta choose spironolactone for hair issues not merely as a diuretic. I said spironolactone is preferred because both lowers blood pressure and one can feel seriously tired and dizzy if he takes say 20mg minoxidil and 200mg spironolactone together.

What I've learned through this journey is that giving treatments the time of 3 hair cmatter more than the extremism of treatments.

Can you call her she? It’s not that hard. I don’t understand why you would do that when she is already feeling low about herself.

Nonetheless, spironolactone is not what leads to hair growth. She might not even need an anti-androgen because her T is already stagnant. She just needs to use it as a diuretic to combat the water retention oral minoxidil leads to. There isn’t a point of using spironolactone at the dose you recommended, it’s just putting more harm on her body in the long-run.

 

[I'mme]

Can you call her she? It’s not that hard. I don’t understand why you would do that when she is already feeling low about herself.

Nonetheless, spironolactone is not what leads to hair growth. She might not even need an anti-androgen because her T is already stagnant. She just needs to use it as a diuretic to combat the water retention oral minoxidil leads to. There isn’t a point of using spironolactone at the dose you recommended, it’s just putting more harm on her body in the long-run.

Ikarus, I know I can be extreme sometimes, sometimes show my arrogance openly, but I don't have any problem calling anybody he or she.

Read that sentence again - and one can feel seriously tired and dizzy if he takes - so I'm saying that in general and strictly not referring her.

Nevertheless and notwithstanding anything said, I'm editing that reply.

Happy now?

 

[Member 139756]

I have found a place in the UK that seems to sell prescription-free progesterone cream.

Considering that the price for a month's pills from abroad seems to be ~£80 after VAT, delivery, and exchange rate - I am tempted to go for the cream first, whilst I hopefully convince a doctor to prescribe pills for me. Does progesterone cream do anything?

https://www.biovea.com/uk/mobile/product_detail.aspx?PID=1673&NAME=progesterone-cream-2oz-59ml