Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[Obsessive]

How much did it cost you? i'll get a test done also to find out

My insurance has covered all tests. If you have insurance, just have the ordering Doctor write 'Dx: lethargy and general malaise' and insurance should pick up the tab.
If you want a clear picture of what is going on in your body, you should try to get:
1) total estrogen
2) estradiol (E2)
3) estrone (E1). Might call it estrone sulfate or some other conjugated form of estrone, depending on the testing lab
4) estriol (E3)

 

[Obsessive]

oh okay, no i dont have the money to pay for health insurance, its like $500/month and thats more than what i pay for the drugs i use. i'll see how much the tests cost though cause im gonna need blood labs anyway with spironolactone/cypro

I've lived in your state so I know there are lots of pay for service labs you can just walk into. No Doctor is needed so that's a plus.

 

[Father_of_Shiseido]

@Father_of_Shiseido let me know if you get your hands on Cypro.

I will tell you. But right now, I want to share my experience. Today, I saw two genetical men who looked like women with no muscles at all. They had significant hair loss. I guess they were on anti-androgen because they had big butts and severe gyno. Their skin was pale and smooth — I, myself experiencing muscles loss along with gyno and anaemia. My face has feminized. Everywhere I go Girls are looking at me carefully. Maybe its the first sign that something has gone wrong with me excluding hair loss. My own experience is, AA are not worth for hair.

 

[I'mme]

It works by blocking the androgen receptors. It's estimated that 1MG blocks 4 ng/dL of testosterone, which means 50MG would block 200 ng/dL of testosterone. Since bicalutamide has an elimination half-life of around seven days, it will build up to 350MG in your body which will block around 1400 ng/dL of testosterone. It continues to build up each time you take it, and reaches 90% of its maximum effectiveness after four weeks. Although, it does increase T initially, that doesn't matter because it gets blocked by a landslide. It stops hair loss because testosterone can no longer have an effect on you since the androgen receptors are blocked. At 25MG/day, gynecomastia happens to around 25% of users. At 50MG/day, it happens to around 50% of users. Although, both doses are greatly effective.

So far it's going great. My sebum production is basically non-existent at this point, and I no longer have to wash my hair every other day and can get away with washing it on every fourth day. I feel a lot better too, since spironolactone was making me very tired and nauseous.

Got it.
50% chances with 50mg are overstated, I think. 36% as per this study. 9% when taken with an anti-androgen.

But since most of these studies are done on considerably older people, don't you think young people should (ideally) have comparatively lesser chances to get gyno?

Or maybe I'm just trying to be overly positive.

 

[I'mme]

I will tell you. But right now, I want to share my experience. Today, I saw two genetical men who looked like women with no muscles at all. They had significant hair loss. I guess they were on anti-androgen because they had big butts and severe gyno. Their skin was pale and smooth — I, myself experiencing muscles loss along with gyno and anaemia. My face has feminized. Everywhere I go Girls are looking at me carefully. Maybe its the first sign that something has gone wrong with me excluding hair loss. My own experience is, AA are not worth for hair.

Thanks for sharing!

So what was your anti-androgen regimen? What's your age?

See they might be on anti-androgens and may not have regrown hair, because anti-androgens by themselves may not be - and often aren't - sufficient to regrow long lost hair.

A DHT blocker, growth stimulants etc all are required.

 

[Ikarus]

Got it.
50% chances with 50mg are overstated, I think. 36% as per this study. 9% when taken with an anti-androgen.

But since most of these studies are done on considerably older people, don't you think young people should (ideally) have comparatively lesser chances to get gyno?

Or maybe I'm just trying to be overly positive.

Oh sorry! I read the breast tenderness part instead of the gynecomastia part. Yes, gynecomastia happened to 36% of patients within the study. I thought it would be easier for younger patients to get gynecomastia, since within transgender people they experience better breast growth when anti-androgens are used at a younger age.

 

[I'mme]

Oh sorry! I read the breast tenderness part instead of the gynecomastia part. Yes, gynecomastia happened to 36% of patients within the study. I thought it would be easier for younger patients to get gynecomastia, since within transgender people they experience better breast growth when anti-androgens are used at a younger age.

So not a good news for me, huh.

 

[Ikarus]

So not a good news for me, huh.

In all honesty, gynecomastia isn’t that bad. Personally, I feel much more comfortable knowing that my hair will become thick.

 

[Ikarus]

I'll gladly convert to being a female to have beautiful hair if it comes down to it, my gender doesn't bother me and i don't gaf about sex so im gucci lol. but i'm sorry to hear that you're having a bad experience ..

Me too... Sometimes I wish I was born a female so I wouldn’t have to deal with hair loss!

 

[bridgeburn]

So not a good news for me, huh.

At 19 sounds pretty risky considering IGF-1 (mediates growth hormone)

 

[bridgeburn]

@bridgeburn
So I had my estrogen levels checked for each type of estrogen. Remember I'm only putting E2 (estrogel) on my scalp and temples only. E2 is not even elevated! but all of it has apparently funneled to conjugated estrone. I'm thinking this is likely just the normal metabolic pathway for E2 rather than some process that is unique to me, but we all seem to agree that estrone is bad. Wonder if it's time to quit estrogel?? View attachment 120677View attachment 120678 View attachment 120681View attachment 120682

bbbwwwahhhhh

damn, surprising.. well any type of estrogen is better than nothing. but generally estrone is considered bad because its the weakest for hair out of the 3 natural human estrogens; estradiol, estriol, estrone. Estrone sulfate is also important for breast development, but not good for you lol.

FYI, transwomen shoot for at least 200pg/ml estradiol.

so your options now;

-try rubbing the gel somewhere with alot lf fat, the estradiol will soak into the fat and leech out leading to more stable estradiol levels.

- you could try adding some estriol to offset the estrone balance

- taking sublingual pills, splitting it 2 to 3 times a days will give large blood estradiol spikes throughout the day. (but higher gyno risk)

 

[I'mme]

In all honesty, gynecomastia isn’t that bad. Personally, I feel much more comfortable knowing that my hair will become thick.

Not for you, I know. I envy you, but at this point, I'm very comfortable being a male except for the hairloss part.

At 19 sounds pretty risky considering IGF-1 (mediates growth hormone)

View attachment 120742

View attachment 120743

Means it would hamper/hinder growth? What kind of growth though?

 

[bridgeburn]

Means it would hamper/hinder growth? What kind of growth though?

it would promote breast growth

 

[I'mme]

it would promote breast growth

Don't want breasts.
Let me see. I wish I don't have to go there.

Have just started on big3. I hope it works out well.

 

[I'mme]

it would promote breast growth

Considering however that I've to hop on anti-androgens somewhere down the future, do you think spironolactone is the best bet. Have read of two persons here who took spirono for 2-3years without any feminizing effects.

 

[Father_of_Shiseido]

Thanks for sharing!

So what was your anti-androgen regimen? What's your age?

See they might be on anti-androgens and may not have regrown hair, because anti-androgens by themselves may not be - and often aren't - sufficient to regrow long lost hair.

A DHT blocker, growth stimulants etc all are required.

I am on 2.5 mg dutasteride, 400 mg spironolactone.

 

[Ikarus]

Considering however that I've to hop on anti-androgens somewhere down the future, do you think spironolactone is the best bet. Have read of two persons here who took spirono for 2-3years without any feminizing effects.

An effective dose of spironolactone [200MG/day] has a similar rate of gynecomastia as bicalutamide [50MG/day].

 

[I'mme]

I am on 2.5 mg dutasteride, 400 mg spironolactone.

They are good for halting hair loss, but for regrowth you'd need growth stimulants. Without them, your otherwise extreme regiment would provide you little benefits.
Spirono is good but its working is little enigmatic - it increases testosterone in some people.

 

[I'mme]

An effective dose of spironolactone [200MG/day] has a similar rate of gynecomastia as bicalutamide [50MG/day].

I would go for it only if you report success

 

[Ikarus]

[UPDATE] It has been around two and a half months since starting treatments. I thought it would be helpful if I uploaded some images. In this particular area, it has the worst amount of hair loss and I would classify it as a bald patch. The first image was taken within the first week of treatment, and the second image is after around two and a half months of treatment. I apologise about the 'before' image, it's flipped and I don't know how to flip it the right way...