Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[BOLLYnorWOOD]

Hello guys,

In the past I took spironolactone, but I discontinued, because my potassium levels were too high. Besides dutasteride 0.5 (my current regime), I want to consider 150 mg bicalutamide or 4 mg estradiol. Which one has the best chance for thicker hair or hair regrowth? Which one causes the most significant gyno? (I want to prevent gyno as much as possible) Which one causes permanent infertility? (which I want to prevent as well)

 

[Father_of_Shiseido]

Hello guys,

In the past I took spironolactone, but I discontinued, because my potassium levels were too high. Besides dutasteride 0.5 (my current regime), I want to consider 150 mg bicalutamide or 4 mg estradiol. Which one has the best chance for thicker hair or hair regrowth? Which one causes the most significant gyno? (I want to prevent gyno as much as possible) Which one causes permanent infertility? (which I want to prevent as well)

Don't touch estradiol you young man. It's not worth, believe me. Even 150 mg of bicalutamide would be too much. spironolactone at a dose of 300 mg has feminised me.

 

[itsyaboi]

 

[keepcoolmybabies]

Hello guys,

In the past I took spironolactone, but I discontinued, because my potassium levels were too high. Besides dutasteride 0.5 (my current regime), I want to consider 150 mg bicalutamide or 4 mg estradiol. Which one has the best chance for thicker hair or hair regrowth? Which one causes the most significant gyno? (I want to prevent gyno as much as possible) Which one causes permanent infertility? (which I want to prevent as well)

Both have a significant chance of gyno. Bica actually increases T, but because it prevents binding of androgens to receptors, a portion of the extra T is converted to E.

In theory bica should be a more versatile hair loss drug. But in reality who knows as there aren't a lot of studies on bica for hair loss in men.

Estradiol will directly affect T production in gonads, thus limiting available free T in your system and conversely how much can affect hair. But there is for sure a risk of fertility issues. So if this is something that concerns you, I would caution against the use of the drug. Or at the very least freeze some sperm.

 

[Jakejr]

Although some of the comments are juvenile, a very real discussion is in this thread. Haven’t read all 476 pages, but after reading a few I think I’m on safe ground.
So if we take the male/female model and conclude a MALE is thinning & decide Step one would be to cut androgens from bloodstream, which ones to take & what dose, what protocol?
Generally speaking Spironolactone is possible candidate. 100 to 200 mg is standard serious dose. Though cautious can start at 25 mg. For majority of men it is impossible to grow breasts, as an example, by cutting androgens without taking estrogen.
So the dangers are hyped up.
Then after judging efficacy of spironolactone,
One can think about estradiol.
Now on this site, we have individuals cutting off their genitals, taking massive doses of female hormones etc. This is not what most of men on this site want or will consider.
However, there is estradiol gel in a tube.
One could rub small amounts on scalp/ temples and judge efficacy. And again men won’t grow breasts like women...
Menstruating women have 10 times the estrogen in their bloodstreams as men ALL the time.
I have read studies where a man had Norwood 6 & decided to become a woman. He wanted a hair transplant, but doctors said he’s bad candidate, not enough hair. So they started him in the Spirolactone/estradiol combo. Hair starts to regrow, Increase dosages add minoxidil add trentinoin. Full hair regrowth.
So we don’t have to go overboard, but worth considering.

 

[keepcoolmybabies]

Although some of the comments are juvenile, a very real discussion is in this thread. Haven’t read all 476 pages, but after reading a few I think I’m on safe ground.
So if we take the male/female model and conclude a MALE is thinning & decide Step one would be to cut androgens from bloodstream, which ones to take & what dose, what protocol?
Generally speaking Spironolactone is possible candidate. 100 to 200 mg is standard serious dose. Though cautious can start at 25 mg. For majority of men it is impossible to grow breasts, as an example, by cutting androgens without taking estrogen.
So the dangers are hyped up.
Then after judging efficacy of spironolactone,
One can think about estradiol.
Now on this site, we have individuals cutting off their genitals, taking massive doses of female hormones etc. This is not what most of men on this site want or will consider.
However, there is estradiol gel in a tube.
One could rub small amounts on scalp/ temples and judge efficacy. And again men won’t grow breasts like women...
Menstruating women have 10 times the estrogen in their bloodstreams as men ALL the time.
I have read studies where a man had Norwood 6 & decided to become a woman. He wanted a hair transplant, but doctors said he’s bad candidate, not enough hair. So they started him in the Spirolactone/estradiol combo. Hair starts to regrow, Increase dosages add minoxidil add trentinoin. Full hair regrowth.
So we don’t have to go overboard, but worth considering.

Estradiol gel will be absorbed into blood stream. In fact it's a method of HRT for some trans people. The efficacy of absorption, however, is partially dependent on where it's applied. Not to mention dose dependent, so you may be able to get away with a small dose to temple area without risk of it affecting your blood levels too much.

Gyno can be a side effect of most AA treatments, including spironolactone. Though the risk is dose dependent (150mg or more has a gyno risk of approx 50%). Bica has a gyno rate of as high as 70%. Without estradiol (and progesterone) it's unlikely that the gyno will be more than tanner 2 or 3. So you're right when you say you probably won't grow breasts like a woman; but you also won't exactly have pecs like a man either. If gyno is a concern, there's also the option of SERM's.

 

[Ikarus]

@Yar please join our Discord server... We sh*t on testosterone too!!

 

[BOLLYnorWOOD]

Both have a significant chance of gyno. Bica actually increases T, but because it prevents binding of androgens to receptors, a portion of the extra T is converted to E.

In theory bica should be a more versatile hair loss drug. But in reality who knows as there aren't a lot of studies on bica for hair loss in men.

Estradiol will directly affect T production in gonads, thus limiting available free T in your system and conversely how much can affect hair. But there is for sure a risk of fertility issues. So if this is something that concerns you, I would caution against the use of the drug. Or at the very least freeze some sperm.

Do both (150 mg bica and 4 mg E) have a chance to regrow hair? I want to choose bica, but I'm not sure if 150 mg only halts hair loss, or actually regrows/thickens hair as well.

 

[keepcoolmybabies]

Do both (150 mg bica and 4 mg E) have a chance to regrow hair? I want to choose bica, but I'm not sure if 150 mg only halts hair loss, or actually regrows/thickens hair as well.

I think that depends on how long the hair follicles have been dormant for either med to provide regrowth. Both have the potential, but it's far from a guarantee. Studies on eunuchs demonstrate that androgen suppression only halts hair loss and doesn't provide growth. But unlike castration, bica also raises E levels, which increased E has been shown in multiple studies to trigger a shift from vellus to terminal hair in men.

 

[StevenGerrard]

@Itsnoahkennedy are you on oral minoxidil/loniten? your eyelashes look great

 

[Yar]

Although some of the comments are juvenile, a very real discussion is in this thread. Haven’t read all 476 pages, but after reading a few I think I’m on safe ground.
So if we take the male/female model and conclude a MALE is thinning & decide Step one would be to cut androgens from bloodstream, which ones to take & what dose, what protocol?
Generally speaking Spironolactone is possible candidate. 100 to 200 mg is standard serious dose. Though cautious can start at 25 mg. For majority of men it is impossible to grow breasts, as an example, by cutting androgens without taking estrogen.
So the dangers are hyped up.
Then after judging efficacy of spironolactone,
One can think about estradiol.
Now on this site, we have individuals cutting off their genitals, taking massive doses of female hormones etc. This is not what most of men on this site want or will consider.
However, there is estradiol gel in a tube.
One could rub small amounts on scalp/ temples and judge efficacy. And again men won’t grow breasts like women...
Menstruating women have 10 times the estrogen in their bloodstreams as men ALL the time.
I have read studies where a man had Norwood 6 & decided to become a woman. He wanted a hair transplant, but doctors said he’s bad candidate, not enough hair. So they started him in the Spirolactone/estradiol combo. Hair starts to regrow, Increase dosages add minoxidil add trentinoin. Full hair regrowth.
So we don’t have to go overboard, but worth considering.

25 spironolactone ok

 

[Yar]

[QUOTE = "Jakejr, post: 1841602, member: 137656»] Хотя некоторые комментарии являются ювенальными, в этой теме обсуждается очень реальное обсуждение. Не прочитал все 476 страниц, но после прочтения нескольких я думаю, что я в безопасности.
Поэтому, если мы возьмем мужскую / женскую модель и придем к выводу, что MALE истончается и решили, что первым шагом будет удаление андрогенов из кровотока, какие из них принять и в какой дозе, по какому протоколу?
Вообще говоря Спиронолактон является возможным кандидатом. От 100 до 200 мг является стандартной серьезной дозой. Хотя осторожно можно начинать с 25 мг. Для большинства мужчин невозможно вырастить грудь, например, путем разрезания андрогенов без приема эстрогена.
Таким образом, опасность раскручивается.
Затем, после оценки эффективности спиронолактона,
Можно подумать об эстрадиоле.
Сейчас на этом сайте у нас есть люди, которые отрезают свои гениталии, принимают огромные дозы женских гормонов и т. Д. Это не то, что большинство мужчин на этом сайте хотят или будут рассматривать.
Однако в тюбике есть гель эстрадиола.
Можно нанести небольшое количество на кожу головы / виски и оценить эффективность. И снова у мужчин не будет расти грудь, как у женщин ...
У женщин с менструацией в 10 раз больше эстрогена в крови, чем у мужчин.
Я читал исследования, где у мужчины был Норвуд 6 и решил стать женщиной. Он хотел пересадить волосы, но врачи сказали, что он плохой кандидат, не хватает волос. Таким образом, они начали его в комбо Spirolactone / эстрадиола. Волосы начинают отрастать, увеличить дозировку, добавить миноксидил, добавить трентиноин. Полный отрастание волос.
Так что нам не нужно идти за борт, но стоит задуматься. [/ QUOTE]
25 спиро ок

Although some of the comments are juvenile, a very real discussion is in this thread. Haven’t read all 476 pages, but after reading a few I think I’m on safe ground.
So if we take the male/female model and conclude a MALE is thinning & decide Step one would be to cut androgens from bloodstream, which ones to take & what dose, what protocol?
Generally speaking Spironolactone is possible candidate. 100 to 200 mg is standard serious dose. Though cautious can start at 25 mg. For majority of men it is impossible to grow breasts, as an example, by cutting androgens without taking estrogen.
So the dangers are hyped up.
Then after judging efficacy of spironolactone,
One can think about estradiol.
Now on this site, we have individuals cutting off their genitals, taking massive doses of female hormones etc. This is not what most of men on this site want or will consider.
However, there is estradiol gel in a tube.
One could rub small amounts on scalp/ temples and judge efficacy. And again men won’t grow breasts like women...
Menstruating women have 10 times the estrogen in their bloodstreams as men ALL the time.
I have read studies where a man had Norwood 6 & decided to become a woman. He wanted a hair transplant, but doctors said he’s bad candidate, not enough hair. So they started him in the Spirolactone/estradiol combo. Hair starts to regrow, Increase dosages add minoxidil add trentinoin. Full hair regrowth.
So we don’t have to go overboard, but worth considering.

25 spironolactone ok

 

[Derelict]

HRT is amazing, you haters are wild.
View attachment 129707

Other than the baldness gene you have god tier genetics, lucky sod. lol

 

[Derelict]

@Itsnoahkennedy are you on oral minoxidil/loniten? your eyelashes look great

I haven't noticed any difference in regards to my eyelashes while on oral minoxidil, my eyebrows however look more dense.

 

[Derelict]

25 spironolactone ok

Would you say 100mg of spironolactone is effective for hairloss yar?

 

[bridgeburn]

Igf-1, hmmm

"Men with higher levels of testosterone were more likely to have vertex baldness (odds ratio [OR] = 2.5, 95% confidence interval [CI: 0.9 to 7.8] per 194 ng/dL increment of testosterone). In addition, for each 59 ng/mL increase in IGF-1, the odds of having vertex baldness doubled (95% CI [1.0 to 4.6]). Those who were found to have higher circulating levels of SHBG were less likely to have dense hair on their chest (OR = 0.4, 95% CI [0.1 to 0.9] per 24 nmol/L increment in SHBG])."

 

[bridgeburn]

"These effects may be associated with high levels of circulating IGF-1 [56] which directly stimulates the activity of the androgen receptor.[57] It is also possible that IGF-1 stimulates the activity of 5α-reductase in the skin which increases the local production of dihydrotestosterone converted from testosterone.[58]

The mechanisms by which androgens stimulate hair growth are not fully understood but may be mediated by IGF-1 from the dermal papilla. For example, Itami et al [59] demonstrated that androgens are capable of stimulating proliferation of the beard papilla cells but not the outer root sheath (ORS) cells. However, when ORS cells are cocultured with the papilla cells without cell contact, androgens are able to stimulate their growth. In addition, they found that IGF-1 mRNA is expressed in the papilla but not in ORS and suggested the proliferation of ORS cells in androgen-induced hair growth is mediated by IGF-1 from the papilla.[59]

In summary, regulation of human hair growth by androgen is probably mediated by IGF-1 in the dermal papilla. In male scalp, high levels of IGF-1 may increase the androgen receptor activity and dihydrotestosterone levels and these result in an increased propensity for baldness"

 

[I'mme]

Don't touch estradiol you young man. It's not worth, believe me. Even 150 mg of bicalutamide would be too much. spironolactone at a dose of 300 mg has feminised me.

Show before and after of your feminization. Why don't some people understand that feminization isn't that easy with AAs only. Even trans people have to opt for surgeries.

 

[Father_of_Shiseido]

Show before and after of your feminization. Why don't some people understand that feminization isn't that easy with AAs only. Even trans people have to opt for surgeries.

People are telling me that I look like a girl and I myself am observing this. My facial fat is depositing in the female-like pattern. My gyno is getting worse and my hips are getting a bit wider. Although, these effects would not be seen within 6 months of the treatment, but close to the one year mark it would be evident.

PS; why do you think that I would post my pictures on this public forum?

 

[BOLLYnorWOOD]

I think that depends on how long the hair follicles have been dormant for either med to provide regrowth. Both have the potential, but it's far from a guarantee. Studies on eunuchs demonstrate that androgen suppression only halts hair loss and doesn't provide growth. But unlike castration, bica also raises E levels, which increased E has been shown in multiple studies to trigger a shift from vellus to terminal hair in men.

Thanks for the detaild information. I really appreciate your knowledge. The E levels that bica (150 mg) can raise, to how much estradiol dosages are those levels equivalent? And what stage of gyno do you have on E?