Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[Ikarus]

Congrats on your recovery, before you go though you mentioned you were thinking of ditching estradiol and trying to maintiain with just AA's, are you still considering that? i think that might be a bad idea. Looking great btw, hope you have a happy life and maintain your hair for decades to come.

I'm planning on ditching estradiol, too. You should join our discord, by the way... I'll be leaving this website too, so if anyone else wants to join, they should PM me soon.

 

[Derelict]

I'm planning on ditching estradiol, too. You should join our discord, by the way... I'll be leaving this website too, so if anyone else wants to join, they should PM me soon.

Why are you ditching estradiol? do you think you can maintain your results with just dutasteride and bica? and why are you leaving? i think you should stay, ignore the trolls and haters, you bring valuable knowledge and results to the website. As for discord i sadly can't join, tbh i didn't even know what it was before i searched it up lol i thought it was just some sort of text based chat but i see it's audio/voice im not too comfortable with that, i have bad anxiety so talking to people like that isn't comfortable for me. Thanks for inviting me though.

 

[Ikarus]

Why are you ditching estradiol? do you think you can maintain your results with just dutasteride and bica? and why are you leaving? i think you should stay, ignore the trolls and haters, you bring valuable knowledge and results to the website. As for discord i sadly can't join, tbh i didn't even know what it was before i searched it up lol i thought it was just some sort of text based chat but i see it's audio/voice im not too comfortable with that, i have bad anxiety so talking to people like that isn't comfortable for me. Thanks for inviting me though.

I’m ditching estradiol because of my age; it can lead to permanent bone changes since it was started at eighteen. Maybe in some years, I’ll reintroduce it. Otherwise, my regimen will be CPA and bicalutamide, and cutting out 5AR inhibitors. I’m leaving this website because it’s come to a point of it being boring, and most of the members on this thread are on our discord server. It’s not a audio/voice situation, it’s text; none of us have engaged in voice activity.

 

[Derelict]

I’m ditching estradiol because of my age; it can lead to permanent bone changes since it was started at eighteen. Maybe in some years, I’ll reintroduce it. Otherwise, my regimen will be CPA and bicalutamide, and cutting out 5AR inhibitors. I’m leaving this website because it’s come to a point of it being boring, and most of the members on this thread are on our discord server. It’s not a audio/voice situation, it’s text; none of us have engaged in voice activity.

My bad, i thought i had read it's voice based, i'll definitely join up then. Thanks

 

[Ikarus]

I'd say it worked out well for you noah. We should be able to immunize those follicles soon so you can maintain without estradiol. Good luck

A lot of us didn’t legitimately plan to remain on estradiol for a lifetime, especially since AAs such as bicalutamide and cyproterone acetate will maintain the results. In my opinion, once the regrowth has came from estradiol, it’s best to maintain with a combination of bicalutamide and cyproterone acetate, with the latter being used instead of estradiol to limit the amount of testosterone production, whilst the former being used similarly to its initial use.

 

[Ikarus]

Interesting. You know of examples of this method working in practice?

Nope, I’m only aware of bicalutamide being used alone. However, you can base the experience of using bicalutamide alone with it being combined with CPA, since CPA is just to lower your testosterone levels after its increased from bicalutamide. It’s just a substitute of estradiol, to lower the testosterone levels.

 

[Gergely]

This will be my last post here until 2021, The images below are taken over the course of 8 months on HRT. I have now reached a point where I am comfortable with the state of my hair.

My hairloss began when i was 16 years old i was put on finasteride, tried that for 2 years, my hair seemed to be getting much worse, by 18 i could start to see through my hairline and temples were receding pretty bad so i added minoxidil, for the next 3 years my hair slowly declined to the state of the this first photo. I wanted to try HRT for quite a while before i actually began it myself, the doctor refused to prescribe me HRT, so i waited one more year until i decided that this was it, the last option available, i was sure it would work and it did.
View attachment 133390

Experiment Duration: April 1st - December 1st.

You look beautiful.

I'm planning on ditching estradiol, too. You should join our discord, by the way... I'll be leaving this website too, so if anyone else wants to join, they should PM me soon.

Sad to see you two go.

 

[Ikarus]

You look beautiful.

Sad to see you two go.

Don’t be, I’ll still be updating my thread regarding my progress.

 

[Brenna]

Awesome stuff Noah. Also ngl, you are looking cute af. Blonde absolutely suits you.

 

[Zenya]

This will be my last post here until 2021, The images below are taken over the course of 8 months on HRT. I have now reached a point where I am comfortable with the state of my hair.

My hairloss began when i was 16 years old, I was put on finasteride, tried that for 2 years, my hair seemed to be getting much worse, by 18 i could start to see through my hairline and my temples were receding pretty bad so i added minoxidil, for the next 3 years my hair slowly declined to the state of the first photo. I wanted to try HRT for quite a while before i actually began it, the doctor refused to prescribe me HRT, so I waited one more year until I decided that this was it, the last option available, I was sure it would work and it did.

Experiment Duration: April 1st - December 1st.

That's great to hear you reached the point of being comfortable with your hair. It is definitively what we are all looking for here. And thank you for this latest update. It's a shame we won't see another one until 2021. The photos look great and the progress is obviously more than evident. Anyway, congratulations and I hope you can maintain the progress you've made.

 

[ali.talebi1994]

does any one know whether bicalutamide alone will work or not?

 

[Derelict]

does any one know whether bicalutamide alone will work or not?

What is your current level of balding? any pics?

 

[ali.talebi1994]

What is your current level of balding? any pics?

Norwood 3

 

[Ikarus]

It would be interesting to see blood work now. And an honest word from you regarding sexual function. There are people here who still delude themselves that this wasn’t a full blown transition.

Can you leave this thread? 2/6 of your posts have been on this thread, bashing us for our decisions when it’s actually none of your goddamn business.

 

[Ikarus]

I am typing to OP without bashing him. I don’t care who you are.

If you are directing a message, tag them or private message them.

This thread should be studied in the future to determine how hair loss affects people mentally.

Anyone who thinks taking antiandrogens isn’t messing their health is crazy. From neurotransmitters to a messed up axis to permanent sexual side effects to cosmetic changes.

Few corrections: antiandrogens will alter the 5ar enzyme permanently in many cases, they also add fat and feminize the body because they mess with an enzyme in the liver which is responsible for fat burning (I’ll find the article later). Gyno doesn’t occur from estrogen elevation, like so many casuals type. It occurs from the disruption of the axis (blocking androgens). Most of you develop lipomastia and gland (some also prominent milk ducts where you lactate as well). It isn’t luck that many complain about “puffy nipples” which also happens from that and certain estrogen regulators such as turmeric can make them disappear (temporarily). There is also asafoetida (if you can find pure one) that can do it (the actual plant was Silfio, the plant of Ancient Greece be Rome that was used as a potent anti pregnancy drug and also for getting insane boners).

I refuse to accept that we are in the era of AI and we are still choosing to believe that a secondary effect of alopecia (DHT attacking the follicles) is the one we should focus on. OP is a woman now for anyone who missed it. Like wtf.

‘This thread’, meaning you are including the rest of the people within this thread, leaving the rest of us to respond. In fact, you are most likely just mad that no one responded to you the first time.

And, to answer what you are saying: who is saying that using anti-androgens aren’t messing our health? I mean, it’s quite literal that these AAs have side effects including liver abnormalities, which makes it important to get blood tests. Minimising the health risks is what’s important, and that’s all you can do when you hold significant value with hair or have gender identity issues. But most of all, is it really your business? I mean, looking at your profile, your regimen is a razor so you must be another mad balding dude.

If you’re going to make a statement like that, regarding AAs altering ‘the 5AR enzyme permanently in many cases’, show the proof instead of saying that you’re going to show the article later. Nonetheless, gynecomastia can occur due to several reasons such as high estrogen, along with blocking androgens. You haven’t even seen our gynecomastia to comment that it’s lipomastia, and I can tell you right now that we do not have pseudogynecomastia.

What causes hair loss, in your opinion?

 

[Ikarus]

I will respond to you just this time and after that we will part ways.

First of all, I am free to quote anyone and express my opinion. I don’t know why some of you think you’re pimping certain areas, you’re not.

As to your question regarding “this thread”, I’ve read quite a bit from it and I remember OP not only making false claims about the effect of antiandrogens but also claiming his sexual preferences and ability to have sex were great. I have never seen a single blood work from the guy. I think that taking large amount of drugs that suppress the hpta and the liver isn’t a joke. And this thread is just that, a joke.

It took me an entire year to reverse my gyno. And one more year I had to carry it with me. And this was all because people like you and him made stupid claims about the drug, ESPECIALLY those saying that gyno goes away after a few months in the drug. Ridiculous.

For the gyno, you need a mammogram to see what goes on. After you quit the drug / drugs ofc. There can be fat stored, skin stretched, gland, milk ducts, prolactinemia, list goes on. AIs won’t do sh*t. Because estrogen isn’t to blame. My estradiol was 23 when I was in the drug yet I got hit with gyno. Why? Because testosterone production was suppressed, thus suppressing my e2.

These drugs are also terrible for the liver. You can literally grow polyps that become cancerous and you’ll die.

Then as far as the mental part is concerned, I see OP and wonder. I wonder how a normal male with alopecia decided to castrate himself and change his body and face in order to reverse the hair loss. I’m happy for him that he did. But you can’t possibly think this is normal, right? Because it’s proven also that the MIND changes on these drugs. You are being feminized. It starts with less libido and less thinking of sex and it gets worse.

Is that really how we need to fight hair loss? I think this is sick.

I mean, blood work can't dictate much besides knowing your testosterone and estradiol levels. I've had blood work, in which my testosterone levels were under 150 ng/dL and my estradiol levels were almost 200 pg/mL. I have minor sexual side effects, which is a lack of nocturnal/random erections, which is preferable since for myself since they were troublesome. And, there were no signs of liver abnormalities, and was classed as 'in the clear' by my endocrinologist. Which plays by the rule that you have to be strategic when using these medications, and use what is necessary rather than unnecessary. Personally, Bridge's and Anty's experiences with such medications are great scientific experiments. I mean, it's undeniable that Bridge's results are possibly the best results from medications and it has inspired many.

What medications were you using? My estradiol levels were almost 200 pg/mL, as stated before, and it's evident that the gynecomastia I'm experiencing is due to myself having estradiol levels within the aimed ranges for transgender women. It's definitely not pseudogynecomastia, especially since gynecomastia requires you to have 'firmness' under the nipple, whereas the former doesn't have that.

Actually, the anti-androgens most of us have switched to (bicalutamide) has considerably low liver abnormality rates. In fact, with the doses most of us are using (50mg/day), the rate of liver abnormalities is under 2% (not including the placebo rate), and that's with patients who have reduced liver function due to their older ages.

Hair loss does put you into an interesting mindset, where some people consider the lengths we go to for success as 'mental', and that's fine. Although, you have to remember that castration isn't something new when it comes to preserving beauty. It has been used within many cultures in the past, but nowadays it's demonised because it goes against the norms for a male. And, we are aware of the effects of these medications, it has been discussed multiple times within the hundreds of pages within this thread.

There is no 'we' when fighting hair loss. It's an individual experience, and it's up to you if you want to go to such lengths.

 

[melio]

does any one know whether bicalutamide alone will work or not?

Your mileage is going to vary. Some people report good results. It was a pretty bad match for me, personally.

I’m happy for him that he did. But you can’t possibly think this is normal, right? Because it’s proven also that the MIND changes on these drugs. You are being feminized. It starts with less libido and less thinking of sex and it gets worse.

Is that really how we need to fight hair loss? I think this is sick.

The guy used to say “I take this and that and I’m horny and doing ok”, now look at him. He’s a woman for crying out loud... his eyelashes are bigger than my girl’s.

I don’t know what to tell you, it bothers me.

It's definitely important to be very careful and accurate with our information when discussing these drugs, and to not promote their cavalier usage, but this underlying current of disgust in your posts is something for you to deal with yourself or else keep to yourself, because none of of the people you're trying to reach here really care if this bothers you, and society is moving past you in this regard.

 

[keepcoolmybabies]

Blood work is more than values of T and E. SHBG, Prolactin, DHEA, LH, FSH, Thyroid function, Cortisol, list goes on. They are all connected. DHT doesn’t mean much as you can’t really find out how much of it is in your follicles when you’re on antiandrogens. Having no morning wood is the first step towards impotence. Everyone over 45 knows that. The prostate can also be damaged by these drugs (don’t confuse your healthy prostate with enlarged ones). DHT is vital, it’s health. I get it that when it chokes the hair out of your head its devil himself but facts are facts.

I stand against young people using a cocktail of medications they know nothing about and doing simple math and saying “it’s all good”. It’s not. This thread should at least be labeled dangerous and OP should put out warnings. There is nothing worse for a man than his penis not working. Believe me. Go talk to people after prostate surgery, they know.

As to what meds I took, I took propecia 1mg / day for three months and my miniaturization already was getting reversed, growing hair all over my head. Combined with minoxidil and dermaroller I would probably be where OP is now. But the sides were ridiculous. I’m probably one of the best responders to both minoxidil and finasteride. I think this is because my skin is rather thin. Thin probably because of my thyroid history (there are articles mentioning the skin changes to people with Hashimoto, how sebaceous glands change etc).

As far as liver goes, your endo isn’t the one to know. You have to perform an ultrasound on upper and lower belly area and sides, by a person who knows how to do it because they take pictures as they do it and they have to be super observant. Best case is your endo had you take blood work for sgot and sgpt (for liver) which I doubt. You know you can have hepatitis (the mild form that goes away in 3 months) and not even know it.

I think we need to draw a line on what is normal and what isn’t when it comes to fighting hair loss. But it isn’t his or your decisions that bother me. It is the confidence with which you spread false information around that bothers me. You read a few articles on hair loss forums, googled strategically a few articles about estrogen, did 1+1=2 and somehow thought you can do what? Trick your hormones? Dodge the bullet? The guy used to say “I take this and that and I’m horny and doing ok”, now look at him. He’s a woman for crying out loud... his eyelashes are bigger than my girl’s.

I don’t know what to tell you, it bothers me.

I think most people aren't just advocating for anyone to jump on hrt here unless they know what they're getting into. For the most part, this thread has typically been users talking about their own experiences and occasionally answering questions. It's also been stated numerous times throughout this thread about the potential for permanent infertility, loss of libido, bone density depreciation (if using only AA's longterm), etc. I personally start to sound like a broken record with how much I add this asterisk to my posts.

Where any "line" should be drawn is on personal decision. If someone wants to use these drugs after careful consideration, that's their choice. If they don't, that's great too.

As for eyelashes, body hair thickness tends to be the biggest precursor to eyelash length thickness. Likewise, men often have fuller eyelashes than women despite it being considered a "feminine" trait. That's why false eyelashes exist.

 

[Ephemeral-Kitten]

Hi everyone! I've been following this thread for a while and read all 525 pages; I haven't made an account until now, but it has been a source of inspiration and hope for me. It's sad to see some of the most inspiring members like Noah and Ikarus leaving, but I want to thank everyone who has contributed positively to this discussion! Special thanks to bridge, obviously, Noah, Ikarus and keepcool.

I've primarily only been on Estrogen, having taken Progesterone sometimes (P4). I'm interested in either trying an AA or switching to Estradiol valerate/cypionate/enanthate injections. So far all that has happened is my temples have regrown small semi-pigmented hairs but maybe adding cypro or bica will make a difference! Since I'm already taking a high estradiol dose. I was about a Norwood 3-3.5 and the vellus hairs on my temples have appeared to an extent that if they went terminal I'd become Norwood 1.5-2 or so. But it's been frustrating watching them grow so slowly without gaining significant pigmentation.

I'd love to discuss with everyone further on disc, but as I've only just made this account I suppose there's always the risk of me being DHTcel (I'm not lol).

Thanks again to bridge for making this thread! It's a glimmering light in the sea of darkness that is the hair loss community and its defeatist attitudes.

 

[bridgeburn]

Hi everyone! I've been following this thread for a while and read all 525 pages; I haven't made an account until now, but it has been a source of inspiration and hope for me. It's sad to see some of the most inspiring members like Noah and Ikarus leaving, but I want to thank everyone who has contributed positively to this discussion! Special thanks to bridge, obviously, Noah, Ikarus and keepcool.

I've primarily only been on Estrogen, having taken Progesterone sometimes (P4). I'm interested in either trying an AA or switching to Estradiol valerate/cypionate/enanthate injections. So far all that has happened is my temples have regrown small semi-pigmented hairs but maybe adding cypro or bica will make a difference! Since I'm already taking a high estradiol dose. I was about a Norwood 3-3.5 and the vellus hairs on my temples have appeared to an extent that if they went terminal I'd become Norwood 1.5-2 or so. But it's been frustrating watching them grow so slowly without gaining significant pigmentation.

I'd love to discuss with everyone further on disc, but as I've only just made this account I suppose there's always the risk of me being DHTcel (I'm not lol).

Thanks again to bridge for making this thread! It's a glimmering light in the sea of darkness that is the hair loss community and its defeatist attitudes.

I met you once on reddit, lol