Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[Ephemeral-Kitten]

I met you once on reddit, lol

Oh yeah! I remember, I think I saw your account on some thread and thought is that *the* bridge lol

 

[ali.talebi1994]

I mean, blood work can't dictate much besides knowing your testosterone and estradiol levels. I've had blood work, in which my testosterone levels were under 150 ng/dL and my estradiol levels were almost 200 pg/mL. I have minor sexual side effects, which is a lack of nocturnal/random erections, which is preferable since for myself since they were troublesome. And, there were no signs of liver abnormalities, and was classed as 'in the clear' by my endocrinologist. Which plays by the rule that you have to be strategic when using these medications, and use what is necessary rather than unnecessary. Personally, Bridge's and Anty's experiences with such medications are great scientific experiments. I mean, it's undeniable that Bridge's results are possibly the best results from medications and it has inspired many.

What medications were you using? My estradiol levels were almost 200 pg/mL, as stated before, and it's evident that the gynecomastia I'm experiencing is due to myself having estradiol levels within the aimed ranges for transgender women. It's definitely not pseudogynecomastia, especially since gynecomastia requires you to have 'firmness' under the nipple, whereas the former doesn't have that.

Actually, the anti-androgens most of us have switched to (bicalutamide) has considerably low liver abnormality rates. In fact, with the doses most of us are using (50mg/day), the rate of liver abnormalities is under 2% (not including the placebo rate), and that's with patients who have reduced liver function due to their older ages.

Hair loss does put you into an interesting mindset, where some people consider the lengths we go to for success as 'mental', and that's fine. Although, you have to remember that castration isn't something new when it comes to preserving beauty. It has been used within many cultures in the past, but nowadays it's demonised because it goes against the norms for a male. And, we are aware of the effects of these medications, it has been discussed multiple times within the hundreds of pages within this thread.

There is no 'we' when fighting hair loss. It's an individual experience, and it's up to you if you want to go to such lengths.

how much did bica help you?

 

[Ephemeral-Kitten]

Blood work is more than values of T and E. SHBG, Prolactin, DHEA, LH, FSH, Thyroid function, Cortisol, list goes on. They are all connected. DHT doesn’t mean much as you can’t really find out how much of it is in your follicles when you’re on antiandrogens. Having no morning wood is the first step towards impotence. Everyone over 45 knows that. The prostate can also be damaged by these drugs (don’t confuse your healthy prostate with enlarged ones). DHT is vital, it’s health. I get it that when it chokes the hair out of your head its devil himself but facts are facts.

I stand against young people using a cocktail of medications they know nothing about and doing simple math and saying “it’s all good”. It’s not. This thread should at least be labeled dangerous and OP should put out warnings. There is nothing worse for a man than his penis not working. Believe me. Go talk to people after prostate surgery, they know.

As to what meds I took, I took propecia 1mg / day for three months and my miniaturization already was getting reversed, growing hair all over my head. Combined with minoxidil and dermaroller I would probably be where OP is now. But the sides were ridiculous. I’m probably one of the best responders to both minoxidil and finasteride. I think this is because my skin is rather thin. Thin probably because of my thyroid history (there are articles mentioning the skin changes to people with Hashimoto, how sebaceous glands change etc).

As far as liver goes, your endo isn’t the one to know. You have to perform an ultrasound on upper and lower belly area and sides, by a person who knows how to do it because they take pictures as they do it and they have to be super observant. Best case is your endo had you take blood work for sgot and sgpt (for liver) which I doubt. You know you can have hepatitis (the mild form that goes away in 3 months) and not even know it.

I think we need to draw a line on what is normal and what isn’t when it comes to fighting hair loss. But it isn’t his or your decisions that bother me. It is the confidence with which you spread false information around that bothers me. You read a few articles on hair loss forums, googled strategically a few articles about estrogen, did 1+1=2 and somehow thought you can do what? Trick your hormones? Dodge the bullet? The guy used to say “I take this and that and I’m horny and doing ok”, now look at him. He’s a woman for crying out loud... his eyelashes are bigger than my girl’s.

I don’t know what to tell you, it bothers me.

DHT is not vital for health, you only need somewhere between 5-30 ng/dl of T to avoid actually serious ADT side effects. I'm inclined to not want to eliminate all 5AR though just because allo is important for maintaining mood and some other neurological aspects. But that's just all the more reason to nuke T from orbit and/or block the AR.

Furthermore many estrogens, including 17beta-estradiol, have been shown to induce aromatase enzymes in vitro and in vivo. Local aromatase deficiency is correlated with the pattern areas of male pattern baldness.

The liver issue is a valid point, but with cypro you don't need a high dose to suppress T (just to block the AR), something like 1-2 mg is enough to stimulate the PR at physiological levels and its half life is much longer than P4. In most respects progesterone would be better except 1) half life is too short so things like rectal administration become necessary to try to extend it by delayed release from the oil substrate. And 2) there are many metabolites of P4, some of which are androgenic. Supraphysiological bio-identical progesterone doses may also overly agonize GABA-A and cause dependence. But it has a lower risk of side effects in general. Then there's bica which most of the time doesn't even significantly raise liver enzymes, it is significantly safer than flutamide with less off target GABA-A antagonism than enzalutamide.

With regards to becoming more feminine for the sake of hair... What have you got against morphological freedom and advocacy for those struggling with this disease? It's not like the medical establishment will do this advocacy, on the contrary they will attempt to extract money for hair transplants and snake oil treatments. Avocado meme, anyone?

The freedom of self-determination of one's phenotypic characteristics is important, especially with one so aesthetically maladaptive as hair loss. And let's not forget the psychological toll that can be incurred. Not only for women/trans women, but also non-binary people and cis gender males who care about their appearance despite the anti-male societal pressure that men should be stoic and not care.

 

[HLV]

DHT is absolutely vital. T is vital. Antiandrogens will suppress your entire HPTA. We are talking feminization process here. Three things to point out: a) I respect a person’s decision to go that route, his life his choice b) I wholeheartedly disagree with someone who claims this doesn’t lead to impotence and c) I am bitter partially because this protocol on me for a fact would reverse 13 years of alopecia, inflammation and misery, but the day I weighted things my penis won the scale.

I’m sorry for taking the thread away from where it was previously (happy thoughts, hair pics) but I had to get it out of my chest. I’ll be on “future treatments”, hoping & coping. I shaved my head yesterday and I bet I could get a free meal anywhere. Meh, sucks.

This is a very valid post. There is nothing to be sorry about. What the people in this thread are doing is not normal in any way, even if the results are great. It’s always been known that taking these kinds of drugs would work but the effects would not be acceptable for the majority of men.

HLV

 

[HLV]

Can you leave this thread? 2/6 of your posts have been on this thread, bashing us for our decisions when it’s actually none of your goddamn business.

lol to be fair Ikarus I’ve lost count of the amount of people you’ve told to leave on this forum.

HLV

 

[keepcoolmybabies]

DHT is absolutely vital. T is vital. Antiandrogens will suppress your entire HPTA. We are talking feminization process here. Three things to point out: a) I respect a person’s decision to go that route, his life his choice b) I wholeheartedly disagree with someone who claims this doesn’t lead to impotence and c) I am bitter partially because this protocol on me for a fact would reverse 13 years of alopecia, inflammation and misery, but the day I weighted things my penis won the scale.

I’m sorry for taking the thread away from where it was previously (happy thoughts, hair pics) but I had to get it out of my chest. I’ll be on “future treatments”, hoping & coping. I shaved my head yesterday and I bet I could get a free meal anywhere. Meh, sucks.

Fair enough. I feel compelled to point out that, for me, it's yet to be an issue obtaining an erection. Being in the mood for one, that's an entirely different story. But I sincerely expected to have issues with impotence on such a regimen and thus far it hasn't been the case. Time will tell I guess though.

Best of luck

 

[bridgeburn]

I sincerely expected to have issues with impotence on such a regimen and thus far it hasn't been the case.

same

 

[Ikarus]

Hi everyone! I've been following this thread for a while and read all 525 pages; I haven't made an account until now, but it has been a source of inspiration and hope for me. It's sad to see some of the most inspiring members like Noah and Ikarus leaving, but I want to thank everyone who has contributed positively to this discussion! Special thanks to bridge, obviously, Noah, Ikarus and keepcool.

I've primarily only been on Estrogen, having taken Progesterone sometimes (P4). I'm interested in either trying an AA or switching to Estradiol valerate/cypionate/enanthate injections. So far all that has happened is my temples have regrown small semi-pigmented hairs but maybe adding cypro or bica will make a difference! Since I'm already taking a high estradiol dose. I was about a Norwood 3-3.5 and the vellus hairs on my temples have appeared to an extent that if they went terminal I'd become Norwood 1.5-2 or so. But it's been frustrating watching them grow so slowly without gaining significant pigmentation.

I'd love to discuss with everyone further on disc, but as I've only just made this account I suppose there's always the risk of me being DHTcel (I'm not lol).

Thanks again to bridge for making this thread! It's a glimmering light in the sea of darkness that is the hair loss community and its defeatist attitudes.

Ill PM you our discord link! I remember seeing you on Reddit, hello!

 

[Ikarus]

Blood work is more than values of T and E. SHBG, Prolactin, DHEA, LH, FSH, Thyroid function, Cortisol, list goes on. They are all connected. DHT doesn’t mean much as you can’t really find out how much of it is in your follicles when you’re on antiandrogens. Having no morning wood is the first step towards impotence. Everyone over 45 knows that. The prostate can also be damaged by these drugs (don’t confuse your healthy prostate with enlarged ones). DHT is vital, it’s health. I get it that when it chokes the hair out of your head its devil himself but facts are facts.

I stand against young people using a cocktail of medications they know nothing about and doing simple math and saying “it’s all good”. It’s not. This thread should at least be labeled dangerous and OP should put out warnings. There is nothing worse for a man than his penis not working. Believe me. Go talk to people after prostate surgery, they know.

As to what meds I took, I took propecia 1mg / day for three months and my miniaturization already was getting reversed, growing hair all over my head. Combined with minoxidil and dermaroller I would probably be where OP is now. But the sides were ridiculous. I’m probably one of the best responders to both minoxidil and finasteride. I think this is because my skin is rather thin. Thin probably because of my thyroid history (there are articles mentioning the skin changes to people with Hashimoto, how sebaceous glands change etc).

As far as liver goes, your endo isn’t the one to know. You have to perform an ultrasound on upper and lower belly area and sides, by a person who knows how to do it because they take pictures as they do it and they have to be super observant. Best case is your endo had you take blood work for sgot and sgpt (for liver) which I doubt. You know you can have hepatitis (the mild form that goes away in 3 months) and not even know it.

I think we need to draw a line on what is normal and what isn’t when it comes to fighting hair loss. But it isn’t his or your decisions that bother me. It is the confidence with which you spread false information around that bothers me. You read a few articles on hair loss forums, googled strategically a few articles about estrogen, did 1+1=2 and somehow thought you can do what? Trick your hormones? Dodge the bullet? The guy used to say “I take this and that and I’m horny and doing ok”, now look at him. He’s a woman for crying out loud... his eyelashes are bigger than my girl’s.

I don’t know what to tell you, it bothers me.

I have had those tested, and they were all normal. Besides my FSH, which is due to my use of estradiol. DHT isn't the only hormone to cause hair loss, it's androgens as a whole and that has been discussed thoroughly within this thread. Although, it's redundant mentioning that we don't know how much of the hormone is within our follicles, because that doesn't change the fact that castration does halt hair loss.

In regards to sexual side effects, I'm not denying that having a lack of nocturnal/random erections are sexual side effects, but I couldn't care less. I hold value with my hair, it's a value much more significant than the value held with my sexual 'health'. It's probably difficult for males on this website to grasp because it's different to themselves, and that's alright. You took finasteride, and you discontinued your use of it due to side effects. It's on-going that it's those types of people who have the greatest issues with us, e.g. HLV, Pigeon, ObsoluteTinker. I don't mean to throw some of those people under the bus since their concerns are definitely valid, though we have our disagreements.

It's alright that you stand against youth using these medications, but so far the only youth using these medications is myself. I started these medications at eighteen, and the benefits outweighed the negatives. I don't have regrets, besides not using these medications earlier. And, I was aware of the 'consequences' of these medications because I took the time to read the pages within this thread, and do my own research. It's not that hard to do research, especially when most of the concerns with these medications are mentioned within the first one-hundred pages.

In all honestly, I have difficulties believing that prostate cancer patients who have had an orchiectomy feel as if losing their penile function is the worst situation for a male. I mean, they suffered from something which could have been life-or-death, that's significantly worse than losing penile function. I can't speak for them, but being alive must hold greater value than maintaining normal penile function.

Furthermore, ALT levels are used to signal abnormal liver function. Prior to starting bicalutamide, I did have an ultrasound due to a negative reaction to isotretinoin, and it was normal. I was on estradiol for around two months during this time, and there was nothing worrisome to the practitioner and hepatologist.

Why do our decisions bother you?

 

[Ikarus]

how much did bica help you?

It helped a lot, especially with my skin conditions.

 

[Ikarus]

lol to be fair Ikarus I’ve lost count of the amount of people you’ve told to leave on this forum.

HLV

Thread*

 

[Father_of_Shiseido]

Can somebody give me the names of some trusted online pharmacies? I need to buy Raloxifene.

 

[Ephemeral-Kitten]

Can somebody give me the names of some trusted online pharmacies? I need to buy Raloxifene.

I use inhouse pharmacy, some others use shesalady. There are more but I can't recall them off hand.

 

[Yar]

Yes I'm stopping estradiol as mentioned before, estradiol was used to reverse the miniaturized hair but it isn't necessary to continue estradiol to maintain what It has grown, what's more important is to keep testosterone suppressed, I'm going to remain on Cyproterone Acetate and Dutasteride, I will come back in one year and let everybody know if i was correct in my decision to stop estradiol.

this is inadequate, do you want to stay without hormones?

 

[Yar]

Yes I'm stopping estradiol as mentioned before, estradiol was used to reverse the miniaturized hair but it isn't necessary to continue estradiol to maintain what It has grown, what's more important is to keep testosterone suppressed, I'm going to remain on Cyproterone Acetate and Dutasteride, I will come back in one year and let everybody know if i was correct in my decision to stop estradiol.

estradiol is responsible for bones in any body that is male to female. Do you want bone problems?

 

[Yar]

50mg Cyproterone Acetate isn't enough by itself to lower testosterone to 0. So my bones won't suffer too much, can't keep using oral estradiol though, if i were to keep using it -- it has to be injected.

did you donate for hormones? first hand over and then say it! I read a lot of forums where even a dose of 12.5 lowered testosterone. You will be left without the main hormone, this is guaranteed!

 

[Yar]

50mg Cyproterone Acetate isn't enough by itself to lower testosterone to 0. So my bones won't suffer too much, can't keep using oral estradiol though, if i were to keep using it -- it has to be injected.

in general, it’s your business! want to be left without bones!

 

[Yar]

50mg Cyproterone Acetate isn't enough by itself to lower testosterone to 0. So my bones won't suffer too much, can't keep using oral estradiol though, if i were to keep using it -- it has to be injected.

MTF took a dose of 12.5 cpa daily and this guaranteed to reduce their testosterone to 0, they attached hormone tests.

 

[likemike]

50mg Cyproterone Acetate isn't enough by itself to lower testosterone to 0. So my bones won't suffer too much, can't keep using oral estradiol though, if i were to keep using it -- it has to be injected.

your androstendione and adrenal glands will do the run.. DHT will rise to an extreme level
your skin become slowly masculine.. and your hair will fall out like Dupa.

i did the same mistake in 2014 and got a lot of problems in my life. lost my good payed job, changed to a dishwasher and were old. i was looking and feeling like an old man. with a lot of bodyhair. especially ear and nose. ear, nose, finger and toes will growing again, problems with heart and blood pressure will come.

once a time HRT is a life long HRT.

 

[Ikarus]

your androstendione and adrenal glands will do the run.. DHT will rise to an extreme level
your skin become slowly masculine.. and your hair will fall out like Dupa.

i did the same mistake in 2014 and got a lot of problems in my life. lost my good payed job, changed to a dishwasher and were old. i was looking and feeling like an old man. with a lot of bodyhair. especially ear and nose. ear, nose, finger and toes will growing again, problems with heart and blood pressure will come.

once a time HRT is a life long HRT.

If he adds bicalutamide, he wouldn’t have to worry about the adrenal glands producing testosterone. Even then, the amount of hormones aren’t enough to lead to hair loss, especially since the amount of DHT will be minimised drastically.