Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[finastride23]

hi
I am taking avodart for about 2 months and now my hair feel much thinner and my hair line receed,is it the sign of avodart is going to work?
what should I do plz help me

 

[Derelict]

hi
I am taking avodart for about 2 months and now my hair feel much thinner and my hair line receed,is it the sign of avodart is going to work?
what should I do plz help me

You need to give it a year before you will know the direction your hair is going,some people say dutasteride destroys hairlines for some reason but i haven't noticed any difference. Just stick with it for now.

 

[finastride23]

You need to give it a year before you will know the direction your hair is going,some people say dutasteride destroys hairlines for some reason but i haven't noticed any difference. Just stick with it for now.

do you take avodart?if yes when did u see the result?did it at firs make your hair thinner?

 

[Derelict]

do you take avodart?if yes when did u see the result?did it at firs make your hair thinner?

I have been taking it for just over a year, no real changes to my hair line, my crown is what im trying to recover and that isn't really doing all that good either. Have you thought about using minoxidil? either low dose oral or topical with dermarolling?

 

[finastride23]

I have been taking it for just over a year, no real changes to my hair line, my crown is what im trying to recover and that isn't really doing all that good either. Have you thought about using minoxidil? either low dose oral or topical with dermarolling?

I apllied minoxidil but in my country it isn’t exist any more and just drugstores made it I donot know if they works

 

[Father_of_Shiseido]

Does anybody experience that the lower jaw is melting away while on anti-androgen? What can be done to fix the problem.

 

[Father_of_Shiseido]

nothing. One of the biggest signs of someone using steroids is their enlarged jaw and mandibles. Antiandrogens have the opposite effect, rounding up the entire body and face. Feminization.

I have stopped taking spironolactone for the last three month. Wondering how long it will take for my face to get to the normal.

 

[Father_of_Shiseido]

Perhaps never. Androgen receptors are taking a hit. Check out Mike Thurston and how his face has changed after starting finasteride. The dude is on steroids year round (not the highly androgenic ones or highly estrogenic ones) but his jawline and angles have diminished. And now he has that stupid hairline that’s full of topik, he was a lot better before.

I don't believe in that. Finasteride has no effect on face. Many trans successfully transition. I didn't take any estradiol.

 

[Father_of_Shiseido]

Believing it or not doesn’t change the fact it is a fact. Finasteride has a gigantic effect on one’s face. Antiandrogens and especially feminization protocols. This very thread shows how OP was and how OP is how as an example. Antiandrogens will round you up, they will also disrupt an enzyme in the liver responsible for fat burning which will cause you to progressively add adipose tissue that is next to impossible to get rid of later. Such tissue is in the breast area (no, your estradiol can be 20 and still have it because we are attacking androgens here so their depletion/reduction determines much) where you will get what’s called lipomastia and then develop glands, milk ducts etc.

OP was taking a high dose of estradiol. I remember one poster saying minoxidil gave him ED and gynocosmetia. Absolutely, that's not a fact.

 

[RuTom]

Can I build muscle if I take bicalutamide?
Or is it impossible? After all, the androgen receptors are blocked.

 

[Ollie]

Can I build muscle if I take bicalutamide?
Or is it impossible? After all, the androgen receptors are blocked.

Very difficult and you’d be limited to your potential. If would be like taking the opposite of a steroid.

 

[RuTom]

No you can’t. There is no potential like the moron says underneath you. And once your free T also diminishes then you’re in a world of pain.

Very strange, but I notice that my muscles are getting harder. My testosterone levels are high enough.

 

[RuTom]

No you can’t. There is no potential like the moron says underneath you. And once your free T also diminishes then you’re in a world of pain.

I think that the androgen receptors in the muscles are partially blocked.
I'll continue training and see what happens

* I take 50 mg Bicalutamide (per day)
0.5 mg Avodart (every second day)
2 mg Estradiol ( per day)

 

[RuTom]

Take a blood test and include T, free T, SHBG, DHT (in blood), e2 and prolactin. Then you should have an idea where you’re at. But judging by what you use, I can assure you that you’re not gonna grow muscle. Taking antiandrogens has this effect where T may spike for a while but then it will plummet as the drug works on blocking testosterone as well.

I did a blood test include T and E2 a 3 weeks ago.
E2 154 pmol /L ( Reference values = 40-161 )
Testosterone 23.2 nmol /L ( Reference values = 8.9 -42.0 )

 

[RuTom]

I have been taking bicalutamide and Estradiol for more than 2 months, also I have been taking Avodart for 1.5 years

 

[Ephemeral-Kitten]

"It is assumed that this is a tissue sensitivity phenomenon and T could essentially exert the same qualitative effects as DHT, at least in processes mediated by the AR, if present in sufficient high concentrations [19]. However, at these doses the aromatization pathway [20] may increase the normal amounts of estrogens, which may act as a synergist [20-24] or antagonist [25 27] to androgens according to the target tissue or cells."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3286233/
DOI: https://doi.org/10.1016/0960-0760(93)90002-e

I believe this is why finasteride/dutasteride often don't work well in the frontotemporal region, particularly in restoring a female/juvenile/nw0 hairline and particularly in advanced cases where the paracrine environment has already deteriorated into one which is hostile to new hair growth. finasteride/dutasteride raise T levels and in aromatase-deficient scalp tissue the excess T can act as a sufficiently strong androgen to cause hair loss. You need aromatase in order to facilitate the aromatase pathway and thus mitigate T's androgenic impact in situ.

 

[Ephemeral-Kitten]

It has to do with the expression of igf1, not estrogen. Antiandrogens will alter igf1 in the liver. Try to search igf1 and its effect on the frontal or back region of the scalp and which case favors which.

It can be debated if estrogenic gene transcription is related to hair growth cycles in a manner which initiates hair regrowth. However, that was not the point of my post. The point, rather, is that without aromatase T can act very much like DHT at the follicle and that because T without cyp19 up-regulates the AR mRNA, then in the specific case of scalp tissue significantly deficient in cyp19aromatase 5ARis like finasteride/dutasteride can be significantly less effective, if not counter-effective.

"Even more conclusive results were obtained in proliferating RP-SMC (Fig. 4, right panel), where T in the presence of finasteride (lane 5), but not T by itself (lane 3), decreased considerably AR mRNA levels, as compared to the control with 500 nM finasteride (lane 2). Again, fadrazole eliminated this effect (lane 6), estradiol (lane 7) was a more active down-regulator than T in the presence of finasteride, and DHT (lane 8) enhanced the intensity of the AR mRNA band. Fadrazole by itself did not affect it (lane 4)."

Fadrazole is an aromatase inhibitor. In other words, AIs eliminate the down-regulatory effects of T in target tissue. Because in order for T to down-regulate the AR mRNA aromatase is required.

Without the female paracrine environment inside the scalp tissue/follicles women would bald in the same pattern as men with the androgens that are naturally present within the female reference ranges. However they don't. And this is because of local enzymatic conversion of T to E2 and other androgens to estrone.

Furthermore:
"The intervention of estrogens in the in vitro down-regulation of AR mRNA levels was confirmed by their nearly complete disappearance by incubation with 50 nM estradiol. This concentration may not be too far above the one resulting from physiological aromatization of the highest T concentration tested (500 nM)."

 

[Ikarus]

I did a blood test include T and E2 a 3 weeks ago.
E2 154 pmol /L ( Reference values = 40-161 )
Testosterone 23.2 nmol /L ( Reference values = 8.9 -42.0 )

Your T should drop due to your usage of E

 

[RuTom]

Your T should drop due to your usage of E

The fact is that, previously, I used a different treatment regimen.
For six months I took Androcur (50 mg), estradiol (4 mg) and continued to take Avodart. On such a treatment regimen, I had a hormonal background like a woman.

But after a while, I started having headaches. I went to the doctors for help. I was sent to do a pituitary magnetic resonance imaging. Unfortunately, I was diagnosed with a Prolactinoma. Blame Androсur, which caused me to have high values of prolactin.
I was forced to give up this drug.

I chose bicalutamide and lowered the dose of estradiol, as the most safe for the body.Headaches don't bother me anymore. Prolactin values are in reference values.

 

[Ephemeral-Kitten]

Yeah Prolactinomas and Meningiomas are a risk you willingly take when you pop Cyproterone Acetate pills, it happens. I get headaches too after a year on androcur and i plan on weaning off and transitioning back to Bicaludamide next month.

Do you think it's still worth it to start on Cypro? Like do you think it's more effective and you wouldn't be where you are today if you had started and stayed on bicalutamide?