Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[Father_of_Shiseido]

What is the active form of spironolatone? Is it something that can be applied topically?

dang bica sounds good besides the gyno. Is that the only negative side? Also has anyone had regrowth on bica WITHOUT some additional E2?

I need a solid agent for the androgen receptor and I’ll be good for a few months as I think what I have covers the other angles.

@Ein

 

[Yar]

guys who are bald just become trance!

 

[Deacr4]

guys who are bald just become trance!

 

[Deacr4]

Just wondering, is it possible for T levels to rise higher than what 50mg Bica can block or will the rise in estrogen always keep it under the limit? I hope I don't get super high levels and then worse hair loss

 

[keepcoolmybabies]

Just wondering, is it possible for T levels to rise higher than what 50mg Bica can block or will the rise in estrogen always keep it under the limit? I hope I don't get super high levels and then worse hair loss

The reason you have higher E on bica is because some of the excess of T is converted to E via aromatase. But unless you actually supplement E, it won't have antigonadotropin effects, wherein the E prevents T from being made in the first place, meaning the E isn't keeping "it under the limit" per say. Bica on it's own, however, should be able to sufficiently block T from binding to the receptors. The only real worry with bica is if doing it as a monotherapy since the excess of T can get converted to DHT, which has a much higher affinity for the receptors than either T (about 3x) or bica (about 10x). But considering you are using finasteride, it should prevent the T from converting to DHT so you shouldn't have to worry.

 

[baldingAF]

@keepcoolmybabies i think you’re right about the balance idea, in that trying to play with hormone levels your body will try and fight what you change in some way, but I don’t think those of us that go bald have much aromatase.

I really wish I started at this paper as I think it’s pretty extensive and accurate in a lot of ways. Like how animal models don’t work for humans and how men and women bald for different reasons.

I think we don’t have enough aromatase and more AR receptors so working that angle like so many have here is the goal. Stop DHT and increase is what grows hair and there are signals like sebum production which is pretty quick and addressed in this paper. The moment that goes way down I think a shift has been made from T to E in the scalp


https://zero.sci-hub.tw/4528/310c6be8f7e93580c00a5eb932f3192f/zouboulis2007.pdf

 

[Father_of_Shiseido]

Just wondering, is it possible for T levels to rise higher than what 50mg Bica can block or will the rise in estrogen always keep it under the limit? I hope I don't get super high levels and then worse hair loss

Bicalutamide if taken at 50 mg daily dose it will significantly feminise on you.

 

[keepcoolmybabies]

@keepcoolmybabies i think you’re right about the balance idea, in that trying to play with hormone levels your body will try and fight what you change in some way, but I don’t think those of us that go bald have much aromatase.

I really wish I started at this paper as I think it’s pretty extensive and accurate in a lot of ways. Like how animal models don’t work for humans and how men and women bald for different reasons.

I think we don’t have enough aromatase and more AR receptors so working that angle like so many have here is the goal. Stop DHT and increase is what grows hair and there are signals like sebum production which is pretty quick and addressed in this paper. The moment that goes way down I think a shift has been made from T to E in the scalp


https://zero.sci-hub.tw/4528/310c6be8f7e93580c00a5eb932f3192f/zouboulis2007.pdf

Yes, aromatase in scalp tissue of balding men isn't as prevalent as in women. Specifically women tend to have higher aromatase in the frontal region, which is why it in particular is often spared from recession and why women tend to have a different pattern than most men.

However, aromatase exists in many tissues/organs throughout the body such as the testes, adrenal glands, fat tissue, etc. So despite the likely absence of it in balding scalp, T can still get converted to E via other areas in the body which still increases circulating free E. Whether or not that has an affect on scalp hair follicles vs locally converted E in dermal papilla cells is a different matter though. But as that very paper you cited points out: "Estrogens appear to stimulate hair growth in man [9] . They are thought to prolong the anagen phase of scalp hair growth by increasing cell proliferation rates and postponing their transition to the telogen phase. In an organ culture system, estradiol stimulates hair shaft elongation in fronto-temporal male hair follicles"

 

[coco_304]

what is Climara Forte 7.8mg??
what is used for?

it can replace estradiol sublingual?

 

[baldingAF]

@keepcoolmybabies you totes right. Wasn't thinking systemically.

So you think if aromatase was corrected that would be enough to restore/bring conditions back into a place to foster some mf hair?

I should technically have a cascade effect cause you're reducing T and DHT by converting more T into aromatase, but the body will still fight it and possibly counter the drugs with an increase in something, maybe more androgen receptors or T or 5ar.

 

[baldingAF]

What chaps my *** is that skin is capable of producing its own hormones and microenvironment it seems, but even then it seems like the results only come from people who make systemic changes. Topical isn't enough. There's probably a network of give and take there where the overall serum of a hormone has some kind of messenger effect on what the skin should focus on producing. weakkkkk

 

[coco_304]

someone know where i can buy
Elleste Solo 2mg

??

 

[coco_304]

since august 2018

12.5 mg cpa
1.25 mg finasteride
minoxidil 5% topically + orally
50 mg dhea sublingually
100 mg progesterone sublingually
3 to 6 drops of estradiol-gel
vitamines, nems, .....

What brand of your progesterone that you can take it sublingual??

 

[Deacr4]

The reason you have higher E on bica is because some of the excess of T is converted to E via aromatase. But unless you actually supplement E, it won't have antigonadotropin effects, wherein the E prevents T from being made in the first place, meaning the E isn't keeping "it under the limit" per say. Bica on it's own, however, should be able to sufficiently block T from binding to the receptors. The only real worry with bica is if doing it as a monotherapy since the excess of T can get converted to DHT, which has a much higher affinity for the receptors than either T (about 3x) or bica (about 10x). But considering you are using finasteride, it should prevent the T from converting to DHT so you shouldn't have to worry.

Oh that's cool thanks, but then fina doesn't block 100% of DHT so I hope it'll be enough to block the increase!

 

[Deacr4]

Then again if Bica is strong enough to do things like reduce body hair, it must have some blocking action with DHT as well, as DHT is what is responsible mostly for body hair in guys.

 

[keepcoolmybabies]

Then again if Bica is strong enough to do things like reduce body hair, it must have some blocking action with DHT as well, as DHT is what is responsible mostly for body hair in guys.

Yes, it still will ultimately compete for the same receptor, even if it has a much lower affinity.

 

[Jacob Williams]

Does anyone have a suggestion on the best and cheapest way to get my hormones checked? Really just interested in T, E, and DHT.

 

[Karan48281]

Last year i took dustaride after seeing myself slowly lose hair. At first it halted it for the first week and then suddenly i started shedding hair, started having an itchy scap, increased body and facial hair and oily skin. After a while my hairline got worse, so after a few months i came off it. The dosage was 0.5mg.

So i did recover partially when i stopped it, but i decided from two weeks ago to try something new. For the first month i will use 50mg CPA with finasteride and also Bio Estriol. (decrease to 25mg cpa the month after) So far my sebum has sightly reduced but i am still shedding hair and have slight itching. Also my since starting CPA the volume of my ejaculation has decreased but it is not clear and is still very white. (Why would this be? I thought that it woud cause runny seamen

How long should i wait to know whether this regime will decrease shedding and if I will have any regrowth? I am also wondering if the CPA willl counter the increased body hair/facial hair and some of the symptoms that were caused on dustaride.

 

[Bighairman]

did you take dutasteride 0.5 every day? or eod?

 

[Deacr4]

How have your results been @Ikarus ? My scalp has been quite itchy for the past few days with what I'm taking, maybe I should drop the finasteride and see if that's the cause, lots of people report having that on Fina, and replace
it with 2mg estrogen for better growth and to help lower the t so bica works better.